Seeing That Women Can Go Topless Now Do You Suppose A Lot More Rapes Will Happen?

[Kerr]

Yes, it ignores the physical aspect.

a rapist mindset doesnt matter if you are a comma pacient

The thing is that if someone is a selfish SOB and wants sex with a wo/man and was not able to get it by seduction, he might rape if physically able.

For rape to happen there needs be :

motivation

opportunity

mentality

That`s the way I see it.

A comma pacient or a coma patient ? If the rapist is in a coma then he none of the factors matter, he literally cant rape.

And of those three, mentality is the most important factor. If you say sexual arousal is enough motivation, then I have motivation. And since I actually have spent time with woman, alone, I have also had opportunity. But I have never raped because I dont have the right mentality.

Like gravity is essential to the pen falling in your example, to the degree that none of the other reasons for the pen falling to the floor would matter without it, motivation and opportunity doesnt matter without mentality.

 

[Me Myself]

A comma pacient or a coma patient ? If the rapist is in a coma then he none of the factors matter, he literally cant rape.

And of those three, mentality is the most important factor. If you say sexual arousal is enough motivation, then I have motivation. And since I actually have spent time with woman, alone, I have also had opportunity. But I have never raped because I dont have the right mentality.

Like gravity is essential to the pen falling in your example, to the degree that none of the other reasons for the pen falling to the floor would matter without it, motivation and opportunity doesnt matter without mentality.

Mentality without opportunity cant do ***

Mentality without motivation doesnt want to do it.

You need the three.

 

[Alceste]

Ah, I understand. I agree that nonconsensuality is the primary defining factor of defining rape.

I also agree, but I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the proposition that bare boobs make people rape people.

 

[Sunstone]

I think rapists might be people who use sex to heighten or enhance the feelings of pleasure and/or satisfaction they get from dominating people. I think that's much more plausible than the other way around -- that rapists are people who dominate others in order to heighten or enhance their sexual feelings.

 

[Me Myself]

I think rapists might be people who use sex to heighten or enhance the feelings of pleasure and/or satisfaction they get from dominating people. I think that's much more plausible than the other way around -- that rapists are people who dominate others in order to heighten or enhance their sexual feelings.

I think the most plausible thing is that there are a variety of motivations and means and forms of rape.

like with almost if not every crime/immorality around.

 

[Kerr]

Mentality without opportunity cant do ***

Mentality without motivation doesnt want to do it.

You need the three.

If sexual arousal counts as motive, most people have it. If being alone with someone you desire constitutes as opportunity, most people have it (in my part of the world at least). But without mentality no crime will be commited.

 

[Me Myself]

I also agree, but I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the proposition that bare boobs make people rape people.

I put "I dont know"

For starters, I doubt a lot of people would do it.

If it`s just one or two, this people have all the attention. If they have all the attention, it would be hard to rape them with no one noticing.

I think the situation is complex.

In general, I doubt in most scenarios sexyness is a factor.

there might be some where it is, like wearing jewelry and rolexes in the bad part of town might be a factor for getting robbed.

 

[Sunstone]

I think the most plausible thing is that there are a variety of motivations and means and forms of rape.

like with almost if not every crime/immorality around.

I think that's a good point. Even when discussing one single act, there are often multiple motives. But sometimes -- or perhaps often -- one of those motives is dominant over the others. By dominant, I mean crucial, while the others aren't so crucial.

 

[Kerr]

I think the most plausible thing is that there are a variety of motivations and means and forms of rape.

like with almost if not every crime/immorality around.

I know of a serial killer who was impotent and only could get sexual pleasure from stabbing his victimes to death .

 

[Me Myself]

If sexual arousal counts as motive, most people have it. If being alone with someone you desire constitutes as opportunity, most people have it (in my part of the world at least). But without mentality no crime will be commited.

Indeed.

Gravity happens all around Earth too, yet to decided it was the mostimportant factor on my other example.

It`s a matter of perspective. The three are factors, the three are needed, one is less common than the others. Yet denying the others are needed is merely delusion.

So as I said, I dont know if change would happen. or how.

 

[Me Myself]

I think that's a good point. Even when discussing one single act, there are often multiple motives. But sometimes -- or perhaps often -- one of those motives is dominant over the others. By dominant, I mean crucial, while the others aren't so crucial.

Absolutely, I would think most of the times there are several motives.

Having a dominant attitude when comes to sex would be something needed IMHO, but again even here restraint can avoid it. One can like only sex when one is dominant, but be unwilling to practice sex with anyone that is not okay with that.

It would also be important to notice that this person might be just dominant when it comes to sex and timid in all or most other areas.

 

[Kerr]

Indeed.

Gravity happens all around Earth too, yet to decided it was the mostimportant factor on my other example.

It`s a matter of perspective. The three are factors, the three are needed, one is less common than the others. Yet denying the others are needed is merely delusion.

So as I said, I dont know if change would happen. or how.

I am not denying the others, though. I am saying one is more important then the others.

 

[Alceste]

I think there is a sexual element to rape, but that it's far more complex than is being discussed here. I'm pretty sure that the sexual element is not the defining motive of rape, though. Although the science is still out on what really motivates people to rape, I think it's a pretty safe bet that it's not horniness alone.

I've never been so horny I felt like l needed to rush out and rape somebody. And I have been so horny I literally masturbated all day long. That's pretty horny. Hard to imagine being any hornier. Personally I think sexual violence is a consequence of the psychological potpourri of cognitive failings, primal aggression, narcissism, xenophobia, insensitivity and general unpleasantness that makes me embarrassed to be human at times. I honestly don't think you can boil it down to just being horny. I know what horny feels like, and abusing others is not an inherent aspect of my libido. I am very skeptical of the proposition being horny can make you rape somebody. On the other hand, sometimes dick can make you slap somebody.

Spoiler: warning: graphic sexual nonsense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baeiVOKgWMo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Me Myself]

I am not denying the others, though. I am saying one is more important then the others.

Its less common which is not the same.

the three are equally necessary.

 

[Alceste]

Its less common which is not the same.

the three are equally necessary.

But only the mentality is necessary for a crime to be committed. With that mentality and without sexual arousal, you're still probably going to try to dominate others, sometimes even in a criminal but non-sexual way.

 

[Kerr]

Its less common which is not the same.

the three are equally necessary.

I disagree. All three matter, but two of them can be held by anyone (motive and opportunity). What sets a rapist apart is the mentality. A man with motive probably wont even consider it without the right mentality.

 

[Sunstone]

Besides everything that's been discussed so far, topless women make me want to run screaming and puking to the nearest church where I can sit in the pews and pray for my salvation and forgiveness for what I've just seen. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Me Myself]

But only the mentality is necessary for a crime to be committed. With that mentality and without sexual arousal, you're still probably going to try to dominate others, sometimes even in a criminal but non-sexual way.

Not without opportunity.

the thing is that various elements are needed within mentality. One can have a dominant attitude but have serious self restraint when it comes to rape or physical damage or some other specific forms of damage ("I would never bother someone about their x"). this would still enter inside mentlaity.

One can be sexually aroused by dominance in sex but be morally opposed to do it to someone against their will (and thus, would find BDSM people with whom he could have consensual role gaming sex) .

The resistance can come from empathy, somesort of pride (I am not that kind of person/not a monster) or any other source.

The thing is ultimately, rape will happen when there is high enough motivation with low enugh resistance (again, resistance can be: basic empathy, fear of the law, fear of social pariahness, some sort of pride or strict adherence to a chosen moral code, and others)

This can happen in different ways. Like all crimes.

 

[Me Myself]

I disagree. All three matter, but two of them can be held by anyone (motive and opportunity). What sets a rapist apart is the mentality. A man with motive probably wont even consider it without the right mentality.

Our discussion seems to be semantic. We both know the three are needed.

A more helpfull approach IMHO would be

Motivation/s

Resistance

Opportunity

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Oh okay, something changed somewhere along the way since the older threads on this subject, or I misunderstood you before. Mystic's position was that rape is never about sex, at all, and it seemed that you had agreed with and supported her position. I apologize if I misunderstood.

She can agree with me or not, but yes, that is my position.

Sexual desire is ancillary when it comes to rape, not primary. I've said this all along, and hence rape is not about sex since it's only along for the ride. Rape is about power, control, and dominance. People getting horny is a moot point.