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Should Donald Trump be Sentenced to Jail for 34 Felonies?

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Agreed. The polls are generally misleading in Trump's favor. The last several elections since the 2020 presidential elections failed to predict the results, which were Democratic victories. The polls misjudged the 2020 House outcome, expecting a red wave that never came.

I don't know why that is. Are people usually alone when surveyed or are their answers usually overheard by friends or family members? I know that will slant outcomes toward the Republicans. How many women in Republican households who will vote pro-choice will say so in front of a husband, for example.

And where are they done? At homes? In malls? If the latter, the poll will be biased in favor of affluence.

And the most alarming results will be pushed the hardest by the media to improve readership or viewership. Recently, several polls were fairly similar, but one outlier from the NY Times showing bigger leads for Trump was the one that hit the news the most. This citation (source) refers to a similar NYT poll from last November, but it's the same complaint:

"More sordid details are leaking out about that New York Times poll released over the weekend, and these details are alarming, to say the least. I want to focus on one particular article written by nwprogressive.org. In it, they point to the problems with this particular poll — starting with the samples of respondents.
Republicans appear to have been oversampled. To quote from the article: “Republican voters were oversampled in these polls.” NW Progressive says the word “oversampled” is nowhere to be found in the WRITEUP of the poll, but “if you open the actual dataset, look through it and read the endnotes,” you will see for yourself they ADMIT to this Republican oversampling.
NW Progessive writes that it is “irresponsible” of the New York Times not to have TOLD readers this immediately. “This is an important design choice and ought to be explained,” they write. Now, readers if you do venture into the dataset, you will find it — hidden away — likely not seen by the majority of readers."​

Whatever the explanation, it's probably an advantage to Democrats to falsely report Republican leads. Let the Republican voters feel complacent and the urgency for the Democrats be magnified.

Think about what those numbers say. 86% of Republicans thought the trial unfair but only 82% thought the verdict was wrong? That suggests that 4 out of a hundred (1 in 25) Republicans thought the trial was unfair but agreed with the guilty verdict. It just shows that these numbers shouldn't be trusted too much whether because of problems with methodology or with an electorate whose answers aren't reliable.
You bring up a good question. How is polling done these days? I have both a landline and a cell phone. I am rather careful with my cell phone number. I do not share that unless I have a strong need to. As a result I get almost no garbage calls. My housemate has a cell phone, but when she gets interested in questionable goods she uses my landline number. I get so many garbage calls that I just ignore it 99% of the time. I might glance at the caller ID but that is about it.

Many poor people only have cell phones and they will not let those numbers out and they will ignore calls from unknown people. So how do polling companies make up for those people that they cannot poll?
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Think about what those numbers say. 86% of Republicans thought the trial unfair but only 82% thought the verdict was wrong? That suggests that 4 out of a hundred (1 in 25) Republicans thought the trial was unfair but agreed with the guilty verdict. It just shows that these numbers shouldn't be trusted too much whether because of problems with methodology or with an electorate whose answers aren't reliable.
"You can show that 80% believe whatever you want them to believe if you ask the right 5 people"
~unknown by me
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You bring up a good question. How is polling done these days? I have both a landline and a cell phone. I am rather careful with my cell phone number. I do not share that unless I have a strong need to. As a result I get almost no garbage calls. My housemate has a cell phone, but when she gets interested in questionable goods she uses my landline number. I get so many garbage calls that I just ignore it 99% of the time. I might glance at the caller ID but that is about it.

Many poor people only have cell phones and they will not let those numbers out and they will ignore calls from unknown people. So how do polling companies make up for those people that they cannot poll?
Your comment suggests that most polling is done by telephone. I wouldn't know, since I've never been polled either by phone or in person. Of course, I haven't lived in the States in fifteen years, but even before then, never. I have never carried a cell phone. I used to have one that was turned off in my car console for emergencies, but nobody had that number except my wife, and she couldn't use it since the phone was never on. I still don't carry a phone.

If it's usually by phone, that could affect the survey results. Would it usually be a land line call? If so and others are at home perhaps overhearing, would that affect outcomes?

Whatever the answers, experience tells us to shave off a few percent from the Republican total. Perhaps in the future, methodologies will favor Democratic candidates in surveys. But today, it's the other way around.

And then there's the wildcard of election tampering. Trump was just convicted of conspiring with Packer and Cohen to fix the 2016 election, although the way he did it shouldn't make the polls wrong. He affected voter opinion. It's blocking people from voting that makes the polls wrong.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I think he should be sentenced to 4 years in the White House, and forced to make this country great again, just as he did the first time when he did it voluntarily.
Call it 4 years of community service.
Do you believe with Trump that there is no crime?

We don't believe there is no crime.
In fact we believe there are 34 counts of crime.
 
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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you believe with Trump that there is no crime?
I'd have to say that if one is still a Trump supporter, he doesn't care if Trump committed crimes. He wants Trump not prosecuted. They know he's guilty of stealing state secrets and lying about it as well as trying to subvert the election in Georgia and multiple crimes related to the refusal to leave office including insurrection. So what do you say if you feel that way? Do you admit it? I haven't heard that yet. Most say that the charges are all trumped up, but should we believe that they believe that? Such people refuse to acknowledge the role that grand and trial juries have played. They won't even speak to it except maybe to say that the Manhattan jury was biased.

Whatever actually circulates in such minds, it's not honest.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
I'd have to say that if one is still a Trump supporter, he doesn't care if Trump committed crimes. He wants Trump not prosecuted. They know he's guilty of stealing state secrets and lying about it as well as trying to subvert the election in Georgia and multiple crimes related to the refusal to leave office including insurrection. So what do you say if you feel that way? Do you admit it? I haven't heard that yet. Most say that the charges are all trumped up, but should we believe that they believe that? Such people refuse to acknowledge the role that grand and trial juries have played. They won't even speak to it except maybe to say that the Manhattan jury was biased.

Whatever actually circulates in such minds, it's not honest.
Has he even been tried for any of those accusations?
So much for the idea of "rule of law" being paramount with liberals.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Can't have a sentencing for Trump without convictions of his crimes.
Then why not go all the way back to the publisher of whatever accounting software Trump's accountant used to supposedly enter the payment under the wrong heading? They were supposed to have a drop down menu option of "payment to interfere with election", right? Maybe that publisher should be sued for not providing enough menu options.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Then why not go all the way back to the publisher of whatever accounting software Trump's accountant used to supposedly enter the payment under the wrong heading? They were supposed to have a drop down menu option of "payment to interfere with election", right? Maybe that publisher should be sued for not providing enough menu options.
Now you are merely revealing just how desperate your apologetics are.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Now you are merely revealing just how desperate your apologetics are.
Not really. Even gun crimes committed by people end up going back to the seller of the gun, and the manufacturer of the gun. If a bookkeeping error can be a felony, then it only makes sense for the bookkeeping software writer/publisher to be liable for not having appropriate menu options to enter a payment with what a court would claim is the correct entry.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Not really. Even gun crimes committed by people end up going back to the seller of the gun, and the manufacturer of the gun. If a bookkeeping error can be a felony, then it only makes sense for the bookkeeping software writer/publisher to be liable for not having appropriate menu options to enter a payment with what a court would claim is the correct entry.
You should be careful when grasping at straws that you do not loose feeling in your hands.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I was thinking about this today. I would hate hate hate to be the judge in this case, in charge of the sentencing. Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't!
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Not really. Even gun crimes committed by people end up going back to the seller of the gun, and the manufacturer of the gun. If a bookkeeping error can be a felony, then it only makes sense for the bookkeeping software writer/publisher to be liable for not having appropriate menu options to enter a payment with what a court would claim is the correct entry.

"Even gun crimes committed by people end up going back to the seller of the gun, and the manufacturer of the gun"

Which IMO is BS. That's like suing beer makers because someone drove drunk and wrecked.
Maybe sue the automaker too?

Even gun crimes committed by people end up going back to the seller of the gun, and the manufacturer of the gun.

Which if its sold or purchased illegally, bought for a minor, etc. I agree with that.
 
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Laniakea

Not of this world
"Even gun crimes committed by people end up going back to the seller of the gun, and the manufacturer of the gun"

Which is BS. That's like suing beer makers because someone drove drunk and wrecked.
Maybe sue the automaker too?

Even gun crimes committed by people end up going back to the seller of the gun, and the manufacturer of the gun.

Which of its sold or purchased illegally, for a minor, etc. I agree with that.
I don't agree with how sellers and manufacturers have been targeted for the actions of criminals with legally purchased items. But since it's been the case, why not go after the software manufacturer of Trump's accountant since it allowed for the payment to be entered as a legal expense rather than an "election interference" expense as was the accusation?
 
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