Should Europe resist Islam?

[Metempsychosis]

We dont have to look beyond our friends on the forum (like Amin) to get to know what moderate islam is.Friend Cottage has explained this very accurately.

 

[.lava]

I say not.
I think it is an absurd idea.
An idea on a par with 'should Europe resist Hare Krishna's', Mormons, Buddhists or any other religion.
The future I want for Europe is tolerant and inclusive. Diversity is welcome. Islam is the second largest religion in Europe and I look forward to a distinctly European take on Islam developing over the coming years.

i am all for diversity too. matter of fact that's command of God not to be separated in sections. that's how it should be. a world united as one humanity with all diversity where noone interferes with other's path. one big picture with many colours. therefor i would not support any act that separates people, does not matter which side it comes from. governments should not try to keep people apart from each other. as long as we stay separated, there would be no peace on Earth.

if some answer your question as 'yes', i would like to hear 'how?'...

btw, just because they are people that works for governments and they don't cover their face as they speak does not mean they are not terrorists. makes no sense saying most of terrorists are Muslims. no, most of who's being terrorized and got killed are Muslims.




.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Better to be sub-human than a stupid human.

Atheists are worse than sub human they are akin to murderers.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/56291-hell-fire-justice-3.html

So since one minute unbelief is like a thousand murders, according to
the law of human justice, someone who lives a life of twenty years in
unbelief and dies in that state ddeserves imprisonment for fifty seven billion two hundred and one thousadnd two hundred million years.

 

[Kathryn]

True.
But why listen to the violent minority not the peaceful majority, or rather why take the extremists as representative rather than the moderate and tolerate for example to whom I linked?

I'd much rather listen to the peaceful majority of moderate, intelligent Muslims - however, the sound of explosions and the screams of the beheaded and tortured, and the wails of the mothers of martyrs and "dishonored" daughters sort of drown out the rest of the dialogue.

Here's the deal: It's very difficult to control a situation when your opponent is prepared to be more ruthless than you are.

Haven't you seen the movie "Apocalypse Now?" Remember the mound of little arms? The Westerners went into Vietnam and thought they could win the hearts of the people by offering vaccinations to their children.

The leaders simply cut off the arms of all the children who had the vaccine.

I am sure that moderate Muslims are absolutely horrified by the actions of radical Muslims. However, what can our response be when the radicals will strap a bomb onto a nine year old, send him into the market square, and detonate the bomb? How does ANYONE address that sort of action civilly?

My son's platoon leader got his head blown off while he was delivering crayons to an Iraqi school. I'm not saying he should have been there, but that's a heck of a way for a young man to die - it was a waste of a promising life. Who gained anything from that? The children's school in Iskandiriyah is now closed, their educations halted, terrorist attacks BY Muslims AGAINST Muslims are a regular occurance in that miserable town, and a young man lies dead in Arlington.

Suicide bombing kills at least 40 in Iraq (Third lead)

We need a different plan - and to me that plan does NOT include pandering to extremists who can dominate the playing field by sheer ruthlessness.

What can we do to empower moderate, peace-loving Muslims and give them the support they need to stand against those who, according to them, misrepresent their faith? Apparently they can't or won't take a stand that's strong enough to halt or at least slow down the spread of radical Islam.

Since 9/11 there have been over 14,500 attacks by radical Muslims worldwide - and that number (and the number of dead) is added to DAILY. We cannot ignore this growing issue while struggling to help and accommodate peaceful Muslims. We have to look at the total picture to determine the best course of action for EVERYONE.

 

[Smoke]

my point is that Islam is no more a violent or misogynistic a religion than Catholicism

I think you'd have a hard time making the case that Catholicism today is as violent or misogynistic as Islam -- and I hate the Vatican like barbed wire pie.

 

[England my lionheart]

Cant believe how intolerant and negative these guys are, just cant
believe it.

Britain has had its share of religious turmoil,its taken us a long time to break from the shakles of religion in Government and Politics so it should'nt be surprising that we view religious movements such as Islam that does have a Political arm as negative.
After seeing what Islam has done to the people of Iran,Iraq,Pakistan etc or any Islamic State its no wonder many reject Islam here,the problem as i see it is that moderate Islam (according to Qutb there is no such thing) does'nt speak out enough,the Council of British Muslims will speak out often about Palestine and Al Aqsa because this affects (as they see it) the Ummah but will not be critical of Muslims.
From all the reading i have done concerning Islam it is clear there are many problems waiting to happen,for example the Hadiths,if i were a Muslim i could find a precedent for torture,Child Marriage,Murder,Slavery,theft etc,a few months ago in Saudi an old Man bought someones Daughter,i forget her age but she was a Child and really in the old Mans mind it was'nt wrong because he has a precedent to follow.
Obviously most Muslims would find marrying a Child as abhorrent so i am not saying this is the norm with Muslims but the precedent is there so IMO if the whole of the West converted to Islam it would be a disaster.

 

[dogsgod]

The separation of church and state has prevented Christians from burning non-believers at the stake as many would today given the chance. Christians labeled woman as witches in order to kill them and today we see Christians labeling Muslims as terrorists making it OK to invade and occupy middle eastern countries. What we should be concerned about is maintaining a separation of church and state as it applies to all religions rather than simply viewing Islam as somehow a worse evil than Christianity.

 

[YmirGF]

What can we do to empower moderate, peace-loving Muslims and give them the support they need to stand against those who, according to them, misrepresent their faith? Apparently they can't or won't take a stand that's strong enough to halt or at least slow down the spread of radical Islam.

Here's the deal, Kathryn, as long as you have even so-called "moderate" Muslims who are offended when told that they would be kind and loving people without being Muslims you have this psychological disconnect with what is basic human nature.

In effect, human beings are weak BY NATURE and NEED Islam in order to live a righteous life. This belief creates a disconnect with the essential humanity of the believer at very basic, fundamental levels. Like similar ideas in Christianity, this is the cancer that spreads throughout the Islamic world and like all healthy cancers is why it seeks to take over more and more because it has the capacity to kill its host. Islam kills the humanity of the individual and replaces it with inerrant dogma that cannot be questioned. Should we actually be supportive of any kind of thinking that refuses the believer their right to question its premises?

Since 9/11 there have been over 14,500 attacks by radical Muslims worldwide - and that number (and the number of dead) is added to DAILY. We cannot ignore this growing issue while struggling to help and accommodate peaceful Muslims. We have to look at the total picture to determine the best course of action for EVERYONE.

You see, this is where the rambling from Tariq Ramadan are essentially meaningless. We see bomb blasts all over the world and one man, sitting at his desk says that that Islam is not responsible. Islam IS responsible and people like Ramadan are playing on our ignorance.

Just where, pray tell, do people think the fanatics are getting the reasons for doing these acts? As noted, there is no single authority that speaks for Islam and so all the scholars don't add up to a hill of beans. There are always plenty of other scholars who disagree with them and they too can prove their points in the psychological mincemeat of Islamic thought.

The real question is should we believe those who tell us that something is not a part of Islam while ignoring reality, or should we believe those who have the temerity to take the bull by the horns and act on what they know is taught? Islam is only sweet and cuddly when it is in a position of weakness, when the tables are turned it becomes a very different animal.

 

[sandandfoam]

Ymir,
'Terrorist' bombs have been going off all over the world for a long time. There was a huge car bomb failed to detonate in central Belfast a couple of weeks ago that had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

 

[YmirGF]

Ymir,
'Terrorist' bombs have been going off all over the world for a long time. There was a huge car bomb failed to detonate in central Belfast a couple of weeks ago that had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

Ummmm.... Stephen.... Are you actually trying to be serious?

 

[sandandfoam]

Ummmm.... Stephen.... Are you actually trying to be serious?

We see bomb blasts all over the world and one man, sitting at his desk says that that Islam is not responsible. Islam IS responsible and people like Ramadan are playing on our ignorance.

Are you?

 

[YmirGF]

Are you?

You mean to tell me that Ramadan is not playing on our ignorance of Islam? C'mon, don't be coy.

 

[sandandfoam]

You mean to tell me that Ramadan is not playing on our ignorance of Islam? C'mon, don't be coy.

I don't actually.
I think bracketing Islam with 'terrorist' is akin to bracketing Irish with 'terrorist'. The majority should not be judged off the backs of a minority of murderous headbangers.

 

[andys]

Oh please!
The idea that we should be tolerant of a movement that is intolerant is as dangerous as the movement.

Don't any of you read or watch the news? Are you completely unaware that Islam is absolutely (and I mean "absolutely" in its strongest form) INTOLERANT? Their religion isn't an add-on to their daily life—it IS their life; it is all encompassing and has NO mercy for any other way of thinking or acting. Once in power, just laws will replaced with Islamic dogma and merciless treatment of us "infidels".

Tolerance of intolerance is self destructive. Turn the other cheek and you'll lose your head.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't actually.
I think bracketing Islam with 'terrorist' is akin to bracketing Irish with 'terrorist'. The majority should not be judged off the backs of a minority of murderous headbangers.

Even though those same "moderates" are blissfully praying for Judgment Day. Can you actually conceive anything much more terrible than the end of free will, Stephen?

 

[sandandfoam]

Even though those same "moderates" are blissfully praying for Judgment Day. Can you actually conceive anything much more terrible than the end of free will, Stephen?

I don't have to agree with Islam to believe in the right of Muslims to be Muslims.

 

[sandandfoam]

Oh please!
The idea that we should be tolerant of a movement that is intolerant is as dangerous as the movement.

Don't any of you read or watch the news? Are you completely unaware that Islam is absolutely (and I mean "absolutely" in its strongest form) INTOLERANT? Their religion isn't an add-on to their daily life—it IS their life; it is all encompassing and has mercy for any other way of thinking or acting. Once in power, just laws will replaced with Islamic dogma and merciless treatment of us "infidels".

Tolerance of intolerance is self destructive. Turn the other cheek and you'll lose your head.

Tolerance of only liberals isn't tolerance

 

[dogsgod]

Ymir,
'Terrorist' bombs have been going off all over the world for a long time. There was a huge car bomb failed to detonate in central Belfast a couple of weeks ago that had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

How many terrorist bombs have dropped from the skies on people in Iraq and Afghanistan that had nothing to do with Islam? Oh, wait a minute, when the west terrorizes it's not called terrorism. Terrorism is what they do to us, when we do it it's called spreading democracy.

 

[sandandfoam]

I'd much rather listen to the peaceful majority of moderate, intelligent Muslims - however, the sound of explosions and the screams of the beheaded and tortured, and the wails of the mothers of martyrs and "dishonored" daughters sort of drown out the rest of the dialogue.

Here's the deal: It's very difficult to control a situation when your opponent is prepared to be more ruthless than you are.

Haven't you seen the movie "Apocalypse Now?" Remember the mound of little arms? The Westerners went into Vietnam and thought they could win the hearts of the people by offering vaccinations to their children.

The leaders simply cut off the arms of all the children who had the vaccine.

I am sure that moderate Muslims are absolutely horrified by the actions of radical Muslims. However, what can our response be when the radicals will strap a bomb onto a nine year old, send him into the market square, and detonate the bomb? How does ANYONE address that sort of action civilly?

My son's platoon leader got his head blown off while he was delivering crayons to an Iraqi school. I'm not saying he should have been there, but that's a heck of a way for a young man to die - it was a waste of a promising life. Who gained anything from that? The children's school in Iskandiriyah is now closed, their educations halted, terrorist attacks BY Muslims AGAINST Muslims are a regular occurance in that miserable town, and a young man lies dead in Arlington.

Suicide bombing kills at least 40 in Iraq (Third lead)

We need a different plan - and to me that plan does NOT include pandering to extremists who can dominate the playing field by sheer ruthlessness.

What can we do to empower moderate, peace-loving Muslims and give them the support they need to stand against those who, according to them, misrepresent their faith? Apparently they can't or won't take a stand that's strong enough to halt or at least slow down the spread of radical Islam.

Since 9/11 there have been over 14,500 attacks by radical Muslims worldwide - and that number (and the number of dead) is added to DAILY. We cannot ignore this growing issue while struggling to help and accommodate peaceful Muslims. We have to look at the total picture to determine the best course of action for EVERYONE.

Hi Kathryn,
When the IRA were murdering away goodo here they were receiving massive amounts of funding from the USA. Should we in Ireland judge the majority of Americans on the basis of those who supported the Provo's? I would suggest not. But what is the difference between judging Americans on the basis of a minority who supported terror and judging Muslims on the basis of a minority who support terror?

 

[Sunstone]

I think the values of the European Enlightenment are among the world's cultural treasures and should be cultivated rather than lost. I don't know whether one must choose between Islam and those values, or between Christianity and those values, but if I had to choose between a mere religion and the values of the Enlightenment, I would choose the values of the Enlightenment.