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Should Europe resist Islam?
- Thread starter sandandfoam
- Start date
Metempsychosis
Reincarnation of 'Anti-religion'
My personal meeting of Muslims have been right opposite, tough.But,they have not been fervently religious muslims.
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You "tolerant" people still don't get it.
Let me ask you: Should the Jews (or any one for that matter) have been tolerant of the Nazis? Should free thinkers like Galileo have been tolerant of the Catholic Church (with its intolerant "Holy" Inquisition)? Well?
Don't you people understand that organized intolerance (like the Nazis and the Inquisition) must NOT be tolerated, but strongly opposed. Once intolerant ideologies and religions take control, they eliminate all possibility for tolerance to exist. What part of this do you not understand?
Islam is 100% intolerant. Islamic Law controls virtually every aspect of society and government, every aspect of one's personal life including diet, dress, banking, prayer, marriage, freedom of expression, and more. That is a simple fact. Anyone who disagrees with Islamic Law is labeled an "infidel" and targeted as "the enemy" who must not be tolerated. You noble, tolerant souls out there are infidels. You are NOT to be tolerated.
Now is Islam still tolerable to you? Well, is it?
Are we clear now?
Let me ask you: Should the Jews (or any one for that matter) have been tolerant of the Nazis? Should free thinkers like Galileo have been tolerant of the Catholic Church (with its intolerant "Holy" Inquisition)? Well?
Don't you people understand that organized intolerance (like the Nazis and the Inquisition) must NOT be tolerated, but strongly opposed. Once intolerant ideologies and religions take control, they eliminate all possibility for tolerance to exist. What part of this do you not understand?
Islam is 100% intolerant. Islamic Law controls virtually every aspect of society and government, every aspect of one's personal life including diet, dress, banking, prayer, marriage, freedom of expression, and more. That is a simple fact. Anyone who disagrees with Islamic Law is labeled an "infidel" and targeted as "the enemy" who must not be tolerated. You noble, tolerant souls out there are infidels. You are NOT to be tolerated.
Now is Islam still tolerable to you? Well, is it?
Are we clear now?
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dogsgod
Well-Known Member
Christianity is 100% intolerant as well. So are all religions. Now what? Personally, I would suggest we maintain a separation of church and state and do away with foreign policies that resemble US foreign policy.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
LOL, Christianity is 100% intolerant? Guess that's why people have flooded into the United States for centuries - people from all sorts of backgrounds, ethnic groups, etc. Until just a few decades ago, most people would have classified the US as a predominately "Christian" nation. To this day, Christianity is the dominant religion in the United States. But people keep on coming in - in "spite of" all these awful Christians.
But then - we're not beheading Buddhist priests or hanging bodies from the Golden Gate bridge.
Christians in the US have gay bishops, mixed congregations, they celebrate Yule and the winter solstice as well as Christmas, they join their Muslim and Jewish neighbors in joint worship services at each other's synagogues, cathedrals, and mosques, and they take up collections for Palestinian refugees.
I'm sorry, but I don't see much of that sort of cooperation from Muslims outside the US.
But then - we're not beheading Buddhist priests or hanging bodies from the Golden Gate bridge.
Christians in the US have gay bishops, mixed congregations, they celebrate Yule and the winter solstice as well as Christmas, they join their Muslim and Jewish neighbors in joint worship services at each other's synagogues, cathedrals, and mosques, and they take up collections for Palestinian refugees.
I'm sorry, but I don't see much of that sort of cooperation from Muslims outside the US.
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
Talk about your religions only, Islam is the religion of peace, whether you liked this fact or not. Peace which is based on justice!
Dogsgod,
You are correct that "Christianity is 100% intolerant as well. So are all religions."
But your suggestion that "...we maintain a separation of church and state..." is beside the point if we allow Islam to infiltrate our (tolerant) non-theocratic society. You do understand that Islam makes NO such distinction between Church and State; they are one and the same.
You are correct that "Christianity is 100% intolerant as well. So are all religions."
But your suggestion that "...we maintain a separation of church and state..." is beside the point if we allow Islam to infiltrate our (tolerant) non-theocratic society. You do understand that Islam makes NO such distinction between Church and State; they are one and the same.
In practice, peace and justice are most often incompatible with each other.
MissAlice
Well-Known Member
Good grief are they that bad in europe?
In the states I don't think we've had many cultural clashes or riots oh except profiling for obvious reasons...
Other than that I think religion should be kept out of the affairs of laws so I agree to the extent that immigrants regardless of religion should be willing to integrate in a society before immigrating...
In the states I don't think we've had many cultural clashes or riots oh except profiling for obvious reasons...
Other than that I think religion should be kept out of the affairs of laws so I agree to the extent that immigrants regardless of religion should be willing to integrate in a society before immigrating...
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dogsgod
Well-Known Member
Christianity and Buddhism make no distinction either. Left alone Islamic influenced cultures will strive for democratic processes. US foreign policy has more to do with the disruption of democracy taking root in the middle east than any other factor.
If only it was true,all those dead Adulterers,Apostates,Gays etc would feel a whole lot better
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
I think you mean surrender and justice are incompatible with each other.... There is a huge difference between Peace and Submission!
Problems like racism and religious prejudices, poverty and terrorism...etc. They are all acts of injustice. And I think that they shouldn't be tolerated at all....Correct?!
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I think I know very well what I mean, and what I mean is that peace and justice are seldom compatible in the real world.
Some see them that way, yes. But they are also much else besides acts of injustice. There is no essence here. Only complexity.
Kathryn,
Christianity's "tolerance" is only the result of it finally losing its terrible stranglehold once separation of Church and State was established. Before that glorious day, the (un) Holy Inquisition burned alive, and tortured countless innocent people who did not conform to the letter of its dogmatic law.
A little less self righteousness would be appreciated.
Christianity's "tolerance" is only the result of it finally losing its terrible stranglehold once separation of Church and State was established. Before that glorious day, the (un) Holy Inquisition burned alive, and tortured countless innocent people who did not conform to the letter of its dogmatic law.
A little less self righteousness would be appreciated.
That's a political and moral calculation, isn't it? For instance, what is the cost of eradicating all racism? Wouldn't you need to do something truly radical and socially expensive to eliminate all racism? Is it worth doing just to take care of the last 10% of the population who are die hard racist? I abhore racism, but in real life, one doesn't talk in absolutes, but in conditionals.
.lava
Veteran Member
no, you are not. you take the easy way out and bomb people and kill masses. i am afraid it is not that dramatic when hundreds die at once comparing to dying of one man. but of course it is your right to kill all Muslim women, men and children. otherwise how could you teach them democracy.
.
Sajdah
Al-Aqsa Is In My Heart.
With all due respect. I don't see it this way, justice is the key to peace and security.....When we achieve justice there would be no aggression or oppression which they are the main cause of intolerance, and the current unpeaceful world.
So what do you suggest? That no one should care for the 10% of the population who are subjected to injustice?! Just tell them "live in "PEACE"!
In this case the word PEACE would mean Submission to those criminals who are more powerful than them! Is it what you meant?!
Dogsgod,
I would not put Christianity in the same category with Buddhism. It is debatable as to whether the latter even qualifies as a religion. Certainly, Buddhism is decidedly more benign and less entwined with politics.
Any organized religion whose dogma contains certain "absolute truths", may to the unwary, appear to be tolerant of opposing points of view, but beware: Any dogmatic religion that postulates absolute, divinely inspired "truths" is, by virtue of such certainty, unable to tolerate opposing points of view. It is only a matter of time and of degree as to how aggressive such intolerance will be expressed. This, history attests to over and over again.
When the so-called "tolerant" Catholic Church enjoyed absolute power, it ruthlessly and mercilessly murdered and tortured any in its path who appeared to oppose its precious dogma. For your information, to this day, the Roman Catholic Church has never discarded the Office of the Holy Inquisition—but renamed it only to disguise it.
I would not put Christianity in the same category with Buddhism. It is debatable as to whether the latter even qualifies as a religion. Certainly, Buddhism is decidedly more benign and less entwined with politics.
Any organized religion whose dogma contains certain "absolute truths", may to the unwary, appear to be tolerant of opposing points of view, but beware: Any dogmatic religion that postulates absolute, divinely inspired "truths" is, by virtue of such certainty, unable to tolerate opposing points of view. It is only a matter of time and of degree as to how aggressive such intolerance will be expressed. This, history attests to over and over again.
When the so-called "tolerant" Catholic Church enjoyed absolute power, it ruthlessly and mercilessly murdered and tortured any in its path who appeared to oppose its precious dogma. For your information, to this day, the Roman Catholic Church has never discarded the Office of the Holy Inquisition—but renamed it only to disguise it.
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Sadly, Sajdah, justice, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. What you think may be "just" may be cause for me to act against you to preserve my sense of justice. In this way, justice is not the link to peace or security, as it is judgmental.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Actually the number of people killed during the Inquisition isn't countless - here are the figures:
"García Cárcel estimates that the total number processed by the Inquisition throughout its history was approximately 150,000. Applying the percentages of executions that appeared in the trials of 1560-1700—about 2%—the approximate total would be about 3,000 put to death. Nevertheless, very probably this total should be raised keeping in mind the data provided by Dedieu and García Cárcel for the tribunals of Toledo and Valencia, respectively. It is likely that the total would be between 3,000 and 5,000 executed."
Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A little less inaccuracy would be appreciated.
Keep in mind that the Roman Catholic Church ruled over most of the Western world for about 800 years, and the Inquisition went on for about 400 years. That's a heck of a long run of power. Hitler and Stalin and their ilk were only in power for less than a third of a decade and look at the piles of dead bodies they left as a legacy (over 50 million dead - and Stalin's Russia was specifically ATHEIST in terms of dogma). And I haven't even tallied up China's dead during the Cultural Revolution of the 20th century - another atheist regime.
I'm not justifying any killings in the name of the Church. All I am doing is putting things into perspective.
Speaking of perspective, in the past week ALONE - there have been 30 jihad attacks worldwide, leaving 258 dead and 812 people critically injured. In November, there were 139 jihad attacks in 14 countries, leaving 529 people dead and 1075 injured.
There have been over 14,500 jihadist attacks worldwide since 9/11. There have been over 10,000 people killed in these attacks in the past 8 years - at least two times the number of people killed during the entire 400 years of the Inquisition.
Category:Terrorism deaths by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jihad's Total Fatalities since 9/11 :: Daniel Pipes
We can't change the past - so as a Christian, I can't change the past actions of those who acted in the name of Christianity. All we can do is try to understand the past, observe the present and be humane and fair, and try to impact the future positively.
Present tense - radical Islam is out of control. We will not be able to stop future acts of violence and intolerance if we don't act NOW - and in order to accurately address the issues facing the world regarding radical Islam, we have to quit justifying these current actions by comparing them (nearly always inaccurately) to the past actions of other groups.
Like I said, there's nothing we can do about the past. We can look at it in order to try to UNDERSTAND the present and forecast the future, but we can't use it to justify further abuses of human rights.
So, you think the Ku Klux Klan
and the Spanish Inquisition are bad?
Put the Numbers in Perspective
and the Spanish Inquisition are bad?
Put the Numbers in Perspective
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingyear.html
More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 1111th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/death95w.htm
19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/ESPYdate.pdf
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World
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