Should ex-Muslims be killed for renouncing their religion?

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I am suddenly very upset that my ancestors were only able to sack & burn a handful of your cities.

You can regret whatever u want.

 

[Sees]

 

[psychoslice]

Religion should be kept out of anything to do with peoples belief's, what on earth can religion do to make our world better, absolutely nothing.

 

[gsa]

You can regret whatever u want.

This is hungry work...

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I agree with you. Yet acknowledging inconsistency is at once admitting the failing of authority. If all muslims do not believe the same thing this undermines the very concept of authority. Without authority religion is meaningless. And while individuals will falter from the prescribed doctrine in no way excuses the fact that REAL MUSLIMS AGREE...DEATH TO THE INFIDEL..DEATH TO THE APOSTATE.

You forget that not all Muslims are the same. There is more than one branch of Islam and they don't all have the same beliefs. I'm check out Sufism. If any of them want to follow a peaceful life, than a real Muslim won't harm others because they changed faiths.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Religion should be kept out of anything to do with peoples belief's, what on earth can religion do to make our world better, absolutely nothing.

There's nothing inherently good or bad about religion. It all depends really. I wouldn't say religion causes are problems like war because most people don't even fight over religious reasons. They fight over territory and resources. People halved had conflict before organized religion came to be.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

You forget that not all Muslims are the same. There is more than one branch of Islam and they don't all have the same beliefs. I'm check out Sufism. If any of them want to follow a peaceful life, than a real Muslim won't harm others because they changed faiths.

Yes, it is good that many sects have fallen away from implementing the scriptures. That doesn't make them REAL, it makes them moderators.

 

[Deidre]

This death sentence is right and in accordance with the quran and sunnah.
I voted yes. For a religious reason which i believe in. According to the quran and hadiths a person who leaves the jamah(muslims), and strives to cause corruption in the land, he gets execution or banishment.

What?
Are people incapable of thinking for themselves? What good is a religion, if it's forced upon its people?

 

[fantome profane]

You forget that not all Muslims are the same. There is more than one branch of Islam and they don't all have the same beliefs. I'm check out Sufism. If any of them want to follow a peaceful life, than a real Muslim won't harm others because they changed faiths.

You are absolutely right that there different varieties of Muslims, Islam is not a uniform belief system (even though some Muslims argue that it is). But for that very reason no one can make a authoritative statement about who is or is not a "real Muslim". It is not our right nor our obligation to declare what is the "real Islam" for someone else. And what we would prefer Islam to be like is completely irrelevant.

 

[Tiapan]

It would appear war against the Sunni version of Islam is again justified in the eyes of many.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

You are absolutely right that there different varieties of Muslims, Islam is not a uniform belief system (even though some Muslims argue that it is). But for that very reason no one can make a authoritative statement about who is or is not a "real Muslim". It is not our right nor our obligation to declare what is the "real Islam" for someone else. And what we would prefer Islam to be like is completely irrelevant.

No one has official authority, but almost all religions have one goal which is peace within yourself and with others. One cannot proclaim peace and then call for violence. Islam's main goal is peace. I believe, like with Christianity and other religions, the idea of hurting others because they changed religions were written later by authors who had their own personal agenda and wanted to instill fear and conquer groups. ISIS for example are not real Muslims, as they want to instill fear and violence which is against the main goal of Islam. Almost all religious groups want peace. Some groups have different techniques, but the goal is still the same for almost all religious groups.

 

[gsa]

No one has official authority, but almost all religions have one goal which is peace within yourself and with others. One cannot proclaim peace and then call for violence. Islam's main goal is peace. I believe, like with Christianity and other religions, the idea of hurting others because they changed religions were written later by authors who had their own personal agenda and wanted to instill fear and conquer groups. ISIS for example are not real Muslims, as they want to instill fear and violence which is against the main goal of Islam. Almost all religious groups want peace. Some groups have different techniques, but the goal is still the same for almost all religious groups.

They are real Muslims, but they are violent, genocidal and apocalyptic Muslims. Just like evangelicals and fundamentalists are real Christians.

I disagree that almost all religious groups want peace. If history is any indication, there are some religious groups in particular that want peace via the sword.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

They are real Muslims, but they are violent, genocidal and apocalyptic Muslims. Just like evangelicals and fundamentalists are real Christians.

I disagree that almost all religious groups want peace. If history is any indication, there are some religious groups in particular that want peace via the sword.

They aren't. They are just criminals who use Islam and twist it to suit their agenda. To call them Muslims is an insult to Muslims.

Yeah that's mostly the same goal almost all religions want is peace, be good to others and so forth. Hindu talks of peace and being kind to others and nature and being with Brahman. Buddhists talk of enlightenment and living a good moral peaceful life to achieve it, Christians talk of peace quite often as Jesus says "Turn the other cheek" Druids and other nature religions talk of wanting peace within themselves, with other s and with nature. So a lot of them want others to lead a good, peaceful moral and ethical life. Those who want peace via the sword don't want peace. Otherwise they wouldn't use the sword. They want war.

 

[gsa]

They aren't. They are just criminals who use Islam and twist it to suit their agenda. To call them Muslims is an insult to Muslims.

Yeah that's mostly the same goal almost all religions want is peace, be good to others and so forth. Hindu talks of peace and being kind to others and nature and being with Brahman. Buddhists talk of enlightenment and living a good moral peaceful life to achieve it, Christians talk of peace quite often as Jesus says "Turn the other cheek" Druids and other nature religions talk of wanting peace within themselves, with other s and with nature. So a lot of them want others to lead a good, peaceful moral and ethical life. Those who want peace via the sword don't want peace. Otherwise they wouldn't use the sword. They want war.

They are clearly Muslims. Whether they are good Muslims, bad Muslims, heretical or orthodox, they still are Muslims.

Anyway, as for peace I don't agree. Two religions in particular have a history of violent conquest.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

They are clearly Muslims. Whether they are good Muslims, bad Muslims, heretical or orthodox, they still are Muslims.

Anyway, as for peace I don't agree. Two religions in particular have a history of violent conquest.

They are people pretending to be Muslims. That doesn't make them Muslims. I'd hardly call them Muslims if they go out of their way to defy peace, Allah and the Quran. As for violent conquests, those two aren't the only ones. A lot of religions have had violent pasts, even Buddhists but just because they've had violent pasts doesn't mean the religion itself is violent. A lot of them started out good and were later twisted around and used to justify war. But most wars aren't even fought for religious reasons anyway. It's mostly for territory and resources.

 

[fantome profane]

No one has official authority, but almost all religions have one goal which is peace within yourself and with others. One cannot proclaim peace and then call for violence. Islam's main goal is peace. I believe, like with Christianity and other religions, the idea of hurting others because they changed religions were written later by authors who had their own personal agenda and wanted to instill fear and conquer groups. ISIS for example are not real Muslims, as they want to instill fear and violence which is against the main goal of Islam. Almost all religious groups want peace. Some groups have different techniques, but the goal is still the same for almost all religious groups.

Sorry but this strikes me as a circular argument. You say that all religions strive for peace, but when we see a religious movement that does not strive for peace you claim it is not a "real" religious movement.

It is easy to say we all want peace, and I think it is true, but we all want peace on our own terms. You talk about different "techniques", and I think that is an insightful comment. People go to war because they want peace, but peace on their own terms. Some people think the only way to peace is to destroy the enemy. Some people think that the only way to ensure peace it to kill those who speak out against Islam. They kill apostates not because they are evil, but because they think it is what God wants, and therefore is ultimately the way to peace.

You want me to say that these people are not Muslims, I won't say that. I am not going to define someone else's religion for them. I am not going to declare what the main goal of Islam is or is not.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Sorry but this strikes me as a circular argument. You say that all religions strive for peace, but when we see a religious movement that does not strive for peace you claim it is not a "real" religious movement.

It is easy to say we all want peace, and I think it is true, but we all want peace on our own terms. You talk about different "techniques", and I think that is an insightful comment. People go to war because they want peace, but peace on their own terms. Some people think the only way to peace is to destroy the enemy. Some people think that the only way to ensure peace it to kill those who speak out against Islam. They kill apostates not because they are evil, but because they think it is what God wants, and therefore is ultimately the way to peace.

You want me to say that these people are not Muslims, I won't say that. I am not going to define someone else's religion for them. I am not going to declare what the main goal of Islam is or is not.

If you want to be technical about it yeah people have their own version of achieving peace. Some might think if all or most people on the planet were wiped out? Some people think a lot of things but that doesn't make them right. Does that idea make them right or peaceful? No. You never strike an enemy unless in self defense. Otherwise you're being the aggressor. I don't call ISIS a religious movement because they are just criminals who use Islam as a cover. I'd hardly call this group Muslims. You have the wrong idea. I don't want you to say anything. You can think what you want, as can I. But most people in general want peace. Most people want to have nice peaceful lives being with their friends and loved ones and living comfortably. Most don't enjoy going to war.

 

[fantome profane]

If you want to be technical about it yeah people have their own version of achieving peace. Some might think if all or most people on the planet were wiped out? Some people think a lot of things but that doesn't make them right. Does that idea make them right or peaceful? No. You never strike an enemy unless in self defense. Otherwise you're being the aggressor. I don't call ISIS a religious movement because they are just criminals who use Islam as a cover. I'd hardly call this group Muslims. You have the wrong idea. I don't want you to say anything. You can think what you want, as can I. But most people in general want peace. Most people want to have nice peaceful lives being with their friends and loved ones and living comfortably. Most don't enjoy going to war.

You have the wrong idea, whatever you think about Isis, they are true believers.

 

[Unification]

NBC is reporting that a Saudi man has been sentenced to death for apostasy:

An Islamic court in Saudi Arabia has sentenced a man to death for renouncing his Muslim faith, the English-language daily Saudi Gazette reported on Tuesday. The man, who is aged in his 20s, posted an online video ripping up a copy of Islam's holy book, the Quran, and hitting it with a shoe, the newspaper reported.

The Saudi Gazette has more details:

The General Court has sentenced to death a young Saudi man in his 20s for denouncing Islam as his faith and various other acts of blasphemy, Al-Sharq reported.
A source from the court reported that the convict documented his apostasy by capturing a video and posting it on the social networking site Keek.
The source said: “In the video he cursed God, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his daughter Fatimah and ripped a copy of the Holy Qur’an and hit it with a shoe.
“The death sentence was issued after his apostasy was proven.”

The murderers are the apostate.

 

[fantome profane]

The murderers are the apostate.

A very interesting comment.