Should God be judged?

[Falvlun]

There is a big difference between 'free will' and 'ultimatum'.

Isn't that the point?

 

[McBell]

Isn't that the point?

It is my point.

And after re-reading Greatest I Am's post, I can see where I may have misunderstood his position.
However, I will not know for sure until Greatest I Am gets back to this thread to confirm it one way or the other.

 

[Falvlun]

It is my point.

Well, it was my point too. God saying "Choose me and go to heaven; or don't choose me and go to hell" is an ultimatum. And you yourself said that there's a big difference between freewill and ultimatums.

 

[Greatest I am]

We are to use our best judgment when confronting people and things in life. What we are warned to be careful about in judging is judging wrongfully or harshly. Many a race or person has been abused because some thought to judge them or him or her harshly and certainly wrongfully.

If I say that the Bible God is a genocidal maniac for the flood of Noah's day, am I being too harsh or am I being truthful?

Regards
DL

 

[McBell]

If I say that the Bible God is a genocidal maniac for the flood of Noah's day, am I being too harsh or am I being truthful?

Regards
DL

Seems to me that the answer depends entirely upon who you ask.

 

[Greatest I am]

Your leaving out the benefits though. God gives benefits for following His law.

Father tells his sons that they can go out and are free to stay out all night if they want, but if they get back home before midnight they can stay out again the next night. If they stay out later than midnight then they cant go out again the next night. Its give and take you are only focusing in on the negatives.

Only because freedom of choice is supposed to be positive but with conditions that last forever it becomes a joke.

I see that your idea of free choice comes with a carrot and a stick just like God's.
Free choice with condition is not free at all.

That is like going to the store and seeing a sign that says that a product is free but you must pay for the package and it cannot be freely given without the package.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Since when did 'freewill' mean "no consequences"?

Since when did free choice mean my way or burn?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

There is a big difference between 'free will' and 'ultimatum'.

Exactly. Hell is the supreme ultimatum.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Seems to me that the answer depends entirely upon who you ask.

It must be hard on your *** to sit on the fence of every issue.

Regards
DL

 

[curious-er]

There is no evidence or proof that God created anything, but that aside, do you read Romans 6-7 as saying that sinners will all be acquitted of their sins or crimes?

Regards
DL

Naturally I would dissagree with your first statement, but yes, when a person dies they have been acquitted of or have paid for their sins or crimes.

 

[Greatest I am]

Naturally I would dissagree with your first statement, but yes, when a person dies they have been acquitted of or have paid for their sins or crimes.

What proof of a creator God do you offer?

If all are acquitted then all souls go to heaven. Right?

There is no hell then. Right?

Regards
DL

 

[Dunemeister]

Ex hypothesis, it's simply not possible to "judge" God. If judgment is a matter of discernment, God is wiser than us. If judgment is a matter of strength, God is stronger than us. If judgment is a matter of righteousness, then the creator establishes the rules. If judgment is a matter of being able to hold the other to account, I see no way we can make our judgment effective. In short, the question is foolish.

 

[Greatest I am]

Ex hypothesis, it's simply not possible to "judge" God. If judgment is a matter of discernment, God is wiser than us. If judgment is a matter of strength, God is stronger than us. If judgment is a matter of righteousness, then the creator establishes the rules. If judgment is a matter of being able to hold the other to account, I see no way we can make our judgment effective. In short, the question is foolish.

Foolish yet you have judged God to be wiser, stronger, more righteous and yes our judgments can be effective if they show a God who is none of the things you have judged him to be.

Regards
DL

 

[Heneni]

To be a real judge of god, you would have to have a law to judge him by, and if you found him guilty you would have to have the power to sentence him or acquit him. You have that kind of power greatest I am? You would also need to have greater authority than he does so that he would have to submit to your ruling. Hmmm....not going to happen

 

[curious-er]

What proof of a creator God do you offer?

If all are acquitted then all souls go to heaven. Right?

There is no hell then. Right?

Regards
DL

The test of whether something exists is to see it's effects. Gravity, wind, electricity, may not be visible, but the effects are. If one studies the complexity of any part of Earth, it's self renewing systems, it's precission (axcess, gravitational pull, tides, atmosphere, distance from the sun, etc. This is not accidental. If the smallest aspect of the aforementioned was changed to in the slightest, life would not be possible. Imagine the intellegence and forethought one would need to create such a thing, and then ask yourself, is it really fluke?

Our Galaxy is so precise in it's movement that we are able to set time to a fraction of a second, by it. It is in effect the most accurate, albeit large, watch. Again fluke?

As anglosaxons, my spouce and I are entirely incapable of having aisian, negro, or oriental, children. We do not have the genetic information in our systems. It matters little how many thousands of children we might produce, we can only pass on what we have. Which goes entirely against evolutionary theory. Where does the extra information come from for one kind to become another? Even one celled organisms can only pass on what they have.

No, they don't go to heaven, they turn back into dirt. No, no hell.

 

[McBell]

To be a real judge of god, you would have to have a law to judge him by, and if you found him guilty you would have to have the power to sentence him or acquit him. You have that kind of power greatest I am? You would also need to have greater authority than he does so that he would have to submit to your ruling. Hmmm....not going to happen

I completely disagree.
I do not have to have more power than God to judge God by Gods own standards.
I do not have to have any authority over God to judge God.

 

[JMorris]

I completely disagree.
I do not have to have more power than God to judge God by Gods own standards.
I do not have to have any authority over God to judge God.

agreed

 

[Greatest I am]

To be a real judge of god, you would have to have a law to judge him by, and if you found him guilty you would have to have the power to sentence him or acquit him. You have that kind of power greatest I am? You would also need to have greater authority than he does so that he would have to submit to your ruling. Hmmm....not going to happen

We have that power and God must submit to our individual rulings.

All who have the intelligence to judge God can sentence a work of imagination of men to the dust bin of their minds and discard His foolish teachings.

Man has more power over his own beliefs than any God.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

The test of whether something exists is to see it's effects. Gravity, wind, electricity, may not be visible, but the effects are. If one studies the complexity of any part of Earth, it's self renewing systems, it's precission (axcess, gravitational pull, tides, atmosphere, distance from the sun, etc. This is not accidental. If the smallest aspect of the aforementioned was changed to in the slightest, life would not be possible. Imagine the intellegence and forethought one would need to create such a thing, and then ask yourself, is it really fluke?

Our Galaxy is so precise in it's movement that we are able to set time to a fraction of a second, by it. It is in effect the most accurate, albeit large, watch. Again fluke?

As anglosaxons, my spouce and I are entirely incapable of having aisian, negro, or oriental, children. We do not have the genetic information in our systems. It matters little how many thousands of children we might produce, we can only pass on what we have. Which goes entirely against evolutionary theory. Where does the extra information come from for one kind to become another? Even one celled organisms can only pass on what they have.

No, they don't go to heaven, they turn back into dirt. No, no hell.

So, then it was an intelligent force then that took the 98 part of chimp DNA and advanced it to man?
Ever hear of genetic variation?

Clay or dirt has no DNA.

Regards
DL

 

[Copernicus]

Ex hypothesis, it's simply not possible to "judge" God. If judgment is a matter of discernment, God is wiser than us. If judgment is a matter of strength, God is stronger than us. If judgment is a matter of righteousness, then the creator establishes the rules. If judgment is a matter of being able to hold the other to account, I see no way we can make our judgment effective. In short, the question is foolish.

But Christians, Jews, and Muslims do judge God. They judge him to be good. (Allah akbar!) The main criterion of goodness is usually the same as that of humanists: benevolence towards humanity.