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Should God show himself?

Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
A Vestigial Mote said:
Because, if I find the ideas presented in the matter to hold absolutely no weight, and can be easily displayed to have no actual observable or demonstrable support in what we must necessarily consider our "reality", and yet these ideas are somehow guiding the thoughts and actions of the people around me, who I must necessarily share a planet with - well you tell me - why WOULDN'T that be concerning?
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You said: Do people seriously feel that these types of things sound wise?

I said: Why would it matter what people feel?

The first issue at hand is that these ideas sound wise to some people even if they do not sound wise to you and other atheists.

The second issue at hand is that there was more to what was quoted about God than meets the eye, and according to my beliefs much is it is allegorical -- of course God does not literally live in someone's heart. What would be concerning is when Christians say that Jesus or the Holy Spiry literally live inside their bodies.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
A Vestigial Mote said:
Though some people's opinions are informed by real-world circumstances, what is observable, demonstrable or verifiable. This is especially important for the opinions one has that inform their actions regarding the rest of the world around them.
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All people's opinions are informed by real-world circumstances, what is observable and demonstrable.

The difference between atheists and believers is that some our opinions are also informed by what is not observable, demonstrable or verifiable.
 
T

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
Audie said:
Ok, so the world was flooded then vanished, to be replaced by a new one?

And you say you base your faith on reality.
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I said reality is important for me, that's all.
But the only thing I base my flood belief on, is in fact the Bible this time.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
thomas t said:
I said reality is important for me, that's all.
But the only thing I base my flood belief on, is in fact the Bible this time.
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Your chosen reading thereof.

For some, finding that their interpretation is mistaken calls for rethinking.

For exsmple- given the numbers presented in Kings, one might decide via simple math that the ratio of diameter to circumference is 1: 3,
Or in other words, Pi=3.0

Time to reinterpret...

Maybe the "30 cubits" and "10 cubits "
are approximations

What do you think?
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
The Lord is God, so you believe Jesus was God? :confused:

If Jesus had been God that would mean that many people have seen God, since many people saw Jesus.
But Jesus said that nobody has ever seen God at any time, so that means Jesus was not God.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
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As with Trump, so many claims without evidence.
 
T

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
Trailblazer said:
The Lord is God, so you believe Jesus was God? :confused:

If Jesus had been God that would mean that many people have seen God, since many people saw Jesus.
But Jesus said that nobody has ever seen God at any time, so that means Jesus was not God.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
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Jesus is divine, I think.

So you're saying that at least one of the passages should be seen as a metaphor in a sense that it must not be interpreted literally also.
This kind of logic does not work here, in my opinion.
John 1:18 says no man has seen God.
John 6:46 says Jesus saw God.

So, according to your logic.... John 6:46 has to be a metaphor then. But John 6:46 also says "no one has ever seen God"... so to me, your logic all boils down to picking and choosing which one is supposedly a metaphor here, it seems to me.

I stay with my opinion that John 1:18 refers to God the father. It is just for reasons of convenience that John said "God" instead of "God the father", I think.
 
T

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
Audie said:
For some, finding that their interpretation is mistaken calls for rethinking.
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it's not mistaken, I think.
Audie said:
For exsmple- given the numbers presented in Kings, one might decide via simple math that the ratio of diameter to circumference is 1: 3,
Or in other words, Pi=3.0
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that's a claim without a source, a checkable source. Maybe it's presumption from your side?
 
A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
The difference between atheists and believers is that some our opinions are also informed by what is not observable, demonstrable or verifiable.
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Precisely... which is why I am of the opinion that those particular opinions cannot matter as much in public/shared discourse. I don't even pretend to think that opinions that I hold in that particular category should matter as much in public discourse - like the idea that the universe has simply been here forever and undergoes a series of "big bangs" over vast amount of time in a sort of cycle. I have a strong suspicion that that is the way the universe operates - however I am not going to insist that anyone else find this idea important in the slightest - I admit that it is NOTHING BUT CONJECTURE. There should be such admittance for that type of opinion, in my estimation, and if there isn't, then the word "irrationality" might start to be used in conversations on the subject(s).
 
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PAUL MARKHAM

PAUL MARKHAM

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
The Lord is God, so you believe Jesus was God? :confused:

If Jesus had been God that would mean that many people have seen God, since many people saw Jesus.
But Jesus said that nobody has ever seen God at any time, so that means Jesus was not God.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
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https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...S4xLjAuMZgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=psy-ab
 
PAUL MARKHAM

PAUL MARKHAM

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
All people's opinions are informed by real-world circumstances, what is observable and demonstrable.

The difference between atheists and believers is that some our opinions are also informed by what is not observable, demonstrable or verifiable.
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Agreed atheists base their opinions on facts, theists on what they think, or believe.
 
T

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
Audie said:
Mistyped, sorry.

1 kings 7 23
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thank you:
Then he made the sea of cast metal. It was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high, and a line of thirty cubits measured its circumference.

In my opinion it is a vessel and seems to me that it was a thick vessel, so that the circumference is longer than it would have been if it was a circle.
The brim was thick, I think.
 
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