Should Muslims acknowledge the Jews sovereignty over Israel?

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

Hate, ignorance, arrogance and stupidity all wrapped up in one post.

Amazing

Peter

Name calling is truely a sign of Fear , and Weakness . And being that you always Attacking , Insulting other's who disagree with you , It to be expected , you have to read my whole post to get a better Overstanding of my post , Being you have no real knowldge of History , you have to Attack / Insult to save faith .

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Being you have no real knowldge of History , you have to Attack / Insult to save faith .

Speaking of history: to whom did Palestine belong in the late 19th and early 20th century?

 

[RabbiO]

Name calling is truely a sign of Fear , and Weakness . And being that you always Attacking , Insulting other's who disagree with you , It to be expected , you have to read my whole post to get a better Overstanding of my post , Being you have no real knowldge of History , you have to Attack / Insult to save faith .

I have read each and every one of your posts, painful as it is to try to untangle your mangling of the English language, although your command of English is undoubtably superior to my lack of command of whatever is your native language. I "overstand" very well the arguments you are making and I will match my knowledge of history against yours at any time.

There is really little point in trying to have a conversation with you. The Book of Proverbs puts it very well, in chapter 26, as to why it is a no win situation.

אל תען כסיל כאולתו פן תשוה לו גם אתה
ענה כסיל כאולתו פן יהיה חכם בעיניו

Peter

 

[Brickjectivity]

This is not a political question, but a scriptural one. The Quran already prophesied in 17:104 that Jews would gather from different places to once again dwell in their promise land. So should Muslims just accept that this is part of Gods plan and let the Jews be in Israel? The question is open to Muslims, Jews, Christians and others.

Verses from Quran:
[17:4] We decreed to the Children of Israel in the book, that you will make corruption twice on earth, and that you will reach the zenith of arrogance.

[17:5] So, when the promise of the first one comes to pass, We would send against you servants of Ours who are very powerful, thus they managed to breach your very homes, and this was a promise which has come to pass.

[17:6] Then We gave back to you your independence from them, and We supplied you with wealth and children, and We made you more influential.

[17:7] If you do good, then it will be good for you, and if you do bad, then so be it. But when the promise of the second time comes, they will make your faces filled with sorrow and they will enter the Temple as they did the first time, and they will strike down all that was raised up.

[17:104] We said after him to the Children of Israel: "Dwell in the land, then, when the time of the second promise comes, We will bring you all together as a mixed crowd."

From reading your post it sounds like it is referring to the first and second temples (and third?) that were built in Jerusalem, and then referring to Jews living in the same area after the temples were gone. It is saying (perhaps) that the temples were destroyed because of arrogance. After that is seems to say that they should 'Dwell in the land', but I don't see why it mentions the mixed crowd but suggest it is a passing reference to the return of Jesus. (refer to Luke 21:27). This is very famous passage and much debated among Christians, and it deals with the destruction of the temple and the time of completion of Jesus work or else of his return. I mean it is one of the most debated passages, ever.

I suspect that the references in Luke 21 and your Koran 17 are linked. Luke 21:27 refers to Jesus coming 'In a cloud', but this is sometimes interpreted to mean a cloud of people. I think your passage in the Koran is talking about the temple's destruction in BCE 33 and then the return of Jesus or else completion of his work. Adding to that, John's Apocalypse or Revelation says in chapter 5 verse 9 something about a new song and people of every tribe and nation all together and all of the seals of Revelation being broken, etc. Its very symbolic writing, but it is another reason for me to think your passage has something to do with either the return of Jesus or the fulfillment of his work, like a commentary on it. I don't think you would have a problem, just based on the passage you quoted, with letting Jews be in charge of that area.

 

[Shermana]

Go back and read my whole post ok , Also at the end , It says more in next post . It get deeper then your above post . Bottom line here Muslims have no reson to acknowledge the Jews sovereignty over Israel? . They out right took it Duhhhhh

I read your whole post. For some reason you feel there's something "Deeper" in it that disproves basic facts and history regarding the arbitrary borders and land ownership that I discussed above. Perhaps you'd like to quote something from it particularly that you feel invalidates or trumps what I said?

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

I read your whole post. For some reason you feel there's something "Deeper" in it that disproves basic facts and history regarding the arbitrary borders and land ownership that I discussed above. Perhaps you'd like to quote something from it particularly that you feel invalidates or trumps what I said?

I don't have to feel anything , I know what I'm talking about here, Like I said Jebusite ( Euro-Jew ) took Palestine land by force , Your and few here keep coming up with these ( Silly Question / Excuses ) for whatever reason , When I told you from the door that Im starting from the Beginning , Not the middlle Not the End ,

But The Beginning . Those who have real knowldge of what happen , Knows what I have post so far , Know that I'm on point . It plan to see you and other here have no knowldge of what happen . Because you keep coming up with diffrent version , story-line all cliam to have the truth . How silly is that , It only one Truth , not many version of the truth .

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

I have read each and every one of your posts, painful as it is to try to untangle your mangling of the English language, although your command of English is undoubtably superior to my lack of command of whatever is your native language. I "overstand" very well the arguments you are making and I will match my knowledge of history against yours at any time.

There is really little point in trying to have a conversation with you. The Book of Proverbs puts it very well, in chapter 26, as to why it is a no win situation.

אל תען כסיל כאולתו פן תשוה לו גם אתה
ענה כסיל כאולתו פן יהיה חכם בעיניו

Peter

Your more then welcome to challenge any of my post at anytime , But don't come with small minded Attack , Insult , Because I see that as Fear / Insecurity , other wise you wouldn't step to me like that , That for children .

Anyway those who cliam to speak the English Language are not speaking English , They're speaking ''Unintelligent Slang . Americans are the first to cliam they are speaking English when they're not , And this is because of the diffrent socalled -culture . People who speak the English language are in Europe and England , Not the U.S.

I can speak Three diffrent language , One of them in pure form . I don't have to know how to speak the English , All I have to know how to write my post . And I do it very well , Better then those who cliam to speak the English language . But I know the reson why yall use these excuse , It because you and other here can't deal with my post . Here something for you to read Psalm 109

You speak of language Right ! Wasn't the original language of those who call / cliam themselves jews ( Yiddish ) , And not Aramic , Because that had to be taught the So-called Aramic / Hebrew language ???

 

[Shermana]

I don't have to feel anything , I know what I'm talking about here, Like I said Jebusite ( Euro-Jew ) took Palestine land by force , Your and few here keep coming up with these ( Silly Question / Excuses ) for whatever reason , When I told you from the door that Im starting from the Beginning , Not the middlle Not the End ,

But The Beginning . Those who have real knowldge of what happen , Knows what I have post so far , Know that I'm on point . It plan to see you and other here have no knowldge of what happen . Because you keep coming up with diffrent version , story-line all cliam to have the truth . How silly is that , It only one Truth , not many version of the truth .

It appears you're looking for the discussion section, this is the debate section. It's okay, Honest mistake.

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

It appears you're looking for the discussion section, this is the debate section. It's okay, Honest mistake.

debate (n.) early 14c., "a quarrel, dispute, disagreement," from Old French debat; see debate (v.). Sense of "a formal dispute, a debating contest" is perhaps from early 15c. debate (v.) late 14c., "to quarrel, dispute," also "discuss, deliberate upon the pros and cons of," from Old French debatre (13c., Modern French débattre), originally "to fight," from de- "down, completely" (see de-) + batre "to beat" (see battery). Related: Debated; debating. dissertation (n.) 1610s, "discussion, debate," from Latin dissertationem (nominative dissertatio) "discourse," noun of action from past participle stem of dissertare "debate, argue, examine, harangue," frequentative of disserere "discuss, examine," from dis- "apart" (see dis-) + serere "to arrange words" (see series). Sense of "formal, written treatise" is 1650s.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Wasn't the original language of those who call / cliam themselves jews ( Yiddish ) , And not Aramic , Because that had to be taught the So-called Aramic / Hebrew language ???

No. Here are a few links on the history of Yiddish, Aramaic. and Hebrew - languages about which you appear to be embarrassingly ignorant.

Speaking of history: to whom did Palestine belong in the late 19th and early 20th century? You persist in avoiding the question.

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

No. Here are a few links on the history of Yiddish, Aramaic. and Hebrew - languages about which you appear to be embarrassingly ignorant.

Speaking of history: to whom did Palestine belong in the late 19th and early 20th century? You persist in avoiding the question.

All your Attacks / Insult does not prove your point and going to your favorite website doesn't prove your point either . Trying to change the title of the post with your silly question doesn't change the post either . This is Habit of your's in every post you go too . By the way your have no Knowldge of any History . Your dealing with His-story their's a big diffrent . You can always tell those who have no knowldge of one question because they always trying to lead people away from the question .

You would never Attack anyone face to face , You fill safe hideing in front of the computer .

 

[metis]

Your more then welcome to challenge any of my post at anytime , But don't come with small minded Attack , Insult , Because I see that as Fear / Insecurity , other wise you wouldn't step to me like that , That for children ... [/B][/I]

Wait a minute, didn't you just do the exact same thing above that you accused RabbiO of? Or is it that you believe insults are not insults when you insult others?

 

[Moishe3rd]

I don't have to feel anything , I know what I'm talking about here, Like I said Jebusite ( Euro-Jew ) took Palestine land by force

Okay.
Like others, I am not able to understand some of your points but, the above is perfectly intelligible.
And - so what?
Do you have a problem with the "Euro Jews" conquering the area today called the State of Israel? Or the area commonly called the "West Bank?"
If so - why?
The Israelis have created a viable multicultural; multi-ethnic; multi -religious State; infrastructure; economy; technology; government; and all of the other trappings of civilization - unlike ALL of the their Arab countries that surround them such as Libya; Egypt; Jordan; Syria; Lebanon; Iraq; and the various Arabs called Palestinians.

Would you wish that the Israeli State was more like their neighbors - despotic; murderous; underdeveloped;and bankrupt?
Why?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

All your Attacks / Insult does not prove your point and going to your favorite website doesn't prove your point either . Trying to change the title of the post with your silly question doesn't change the post either . This is Habit of your's in every post you go too . By the way your have no Knowldge of any History . Your dealing with His-story their's a big diffrent . You can always tell those who have no knowldge of one question because they always trying to lead people away from the question .

You would never Attack anyone face to face , You fill safe hideing in front of the computer .

In post three you wrote in part:

With a little ReSearch one can see / know who the land of Palestine belong to .

Very well, to whom did Palestine belong in the late 19th and early 20th century? And why do you find the question so threatening?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Israelis have created a viable multicultural; multi-ethnic; multi -religious State; infrastructure; economy; technology; government; and all of the other trappings of civilization - unlike ALL of the their Arab countries that surround them such as Libya; Egypt; Jordan; Syria; Lebanon; Iraq; and the various Arabs called Palestinians.

So the end justifies the means? I suspect that many found solace in the conviction that the British and Americans were more 'civilized' than the indigenous population.

 

[Moishe3rd]

So the end justifies the means? I suspect that many found solace in the conviction that the British and Americans were more 'civilized' than the indigenous population.

You have posted a non sequitur.
What is "So the end justifies the means?" supposed to mean?
What end? What means?

 

[Avi1001]

Okay.
Like others, I am not able to understand some of your points but, the above is perfectly intelligible.
And - so what?
Do you have a problem with the "Euro Jews" conquering the area today called the State of Israel? Or the area commonly called the "West Bank?"
If so - why?
The Israelis have created a viable multicultural; multi-ethnic; multi -religious State; infrastructure; economy; technology; government; and all of the other trappings of civilization - unlike ALL of the their Arab countries that surround them such as Libya; Egypt; Jordan; Syria; Lebanon; Iraq; and the various Arabs called Palestinians.

Would you wish that the Israeli State was more like their neighbors - despotic; murderous; underdeveloped;and bankrupt?
Why?

Good Moishe. You have re-cast the question into one which is intelligible. Now we actually have something to discuss.

Of course, without even saying, Israel is far ahead of her neighbors, in terms of the development of western ethics, morality, legal development and commerce. This is because combining early Egyptian, Greek and Jewish knowledge, led to the development of current western knowledge in these areas.

In this thread, we have a troll, called MusaaEl Haadi, screaming at us from his perch on top of the bridge. He reminds me of the troll in the Monty Python movie "Life of Brian", if you have seen it.

However, it is more complex than you propose, Moishe. The countries you mention are primative, with huge class differentiation. They have wealthy, powerful, corrupt ruling classes. They are willing to kill their own people to stay in power.

I think the key is to educate the people in these countries. This will be very difficult, but I believe it is the only solution.

I suggest we take back this thread. Let the troll scream from the bridge, and in the meantime we can propose some meaningful solutions. Lets discuss among ourselves.

Any other ideas ?

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

Okay.
Like others, I am not able to understand some of your points but, the above is perfectly intelligible.
And - so what?
Do you have a problem with the "Euro Jews" conquering the area today called the State of Israel? Or the area commonly called the "West Bank?"
If so - why?
The Israelis have created a viable multicultural; multi-ethnic; multi -religious State; infrastructure; economy; technology; government; and all of the other trappings of civilization - unlike ALL of the their Arab countries that surround them such as Libya; Egypt; Jordan; Syria; Lebanon; Iraq; and the various Arabs called Palestinians.

Would you wish that the Israeli State was more like their neighbors - despotic; murderous; underdeveloped;and bankrupt?
Why?

To be truthful I don't have a dog in this fight , Unlike a few here I don't play covering up the truth . And this is what they're doing here , I see Israeli / jews doing Some of the same things they said Hitler did to them , plus Hitler was a jew and a christian
Not to waste time geting into this backward and forward thing . Nobody here can't tell me if some one was to come and Take / move in their House they wouldn't be fighting to take it back . I have notice something those who keep steping to me with all these silly question , Have not Challenge what I have post so far . to be Un-true . And that speaks Volume's .

 

[MusaaEl-Haadi]

Wait a minute, didn't you just do the exact same thing above that you accused RabbiO of? Or is it that you believe insults are not insults when you insult others?

And your point is what !

 

[Galen.Iksnudnard]

Musa, why don't you answer the following question, which has been posed to you many times?

To whom did Palestine belong in the late 19th and early 20th century?