Should porn sites require IDs

[Revoltingest]

When it comes to topics related to sex parents as a whole and collectively are utterly failing to teach their kids, with few parents actually teaching their kids (something about 25%) (the study is in a book so there is no link).

Are you arguing for identification of porn viewers?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are you arguing for identification of porn viewers?

See post 79.

 

[Alien826]

Yeah, certain things you shouldn't have to explain. Some people here really worry me. I personally just give up trying to explain simple things, throw them on ignore and hope for the best.

That's the way! Ignore everything that doesn't fit your own view of the world. That way everything will always be perfect, in your own little world.

 

[Alien826]

It has been demonstrated, repeatedly by secular research, that exposure to pornography does indeed have the potential to damage children. I even got to see it professionally with children doing the stuff a careless caretaker exposed them to.
And your link was porn in general, for adult consumption amd it didn't look at children. It's two different subjects.

Do you have a study for me to read? You must have if it has been demonstrated so often. That's really all I'm asking for.

And yes the link didn't cover children. I've addressed that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think it would be more effective to teach parents how to secure the computers can't show such things, continue addressing "boys will be boys" to reduce forced exposure (including not just porn but violent content) amd work with society to improve things rather than force an easily worked around law.

It is a bit difficult when every teenage boy (and girl) caries a computer with them in their pocket. I know that there are ways to put protective walls up on computers, but there are also people that regularly find ways around them. I am not sure that I want the government to regulate what sort of cell phones those under 18 can carry.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's the way! Ignore everything that doesn't fit your own view of the world. That way everything will always be perfect, in your own little world.

It's more about not wanting to read disturbing and perverse posts, especially from elderly people who are old enough to be your grandparents. Bye bye.

 

[Alien826]

It's more about not wanting to read disturbing and perverse posts, especially from elderly people who are old enough to be your grandparents. Bye bye.

Read what you want, but, and this is the second time you have said this, what do you have against elderly people?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is a bit difficult when every teenage boy (and girl) caries a computer with them in their pocket. I know that there are ways to put protective walls up on computers, but there are also people that regularly find ways around them. I am not sure that I want the government to regulate what sort of cell phones those under 18 can carry.

This is why we teach parents how to set up and secure those devices. And, yes, of course people can work around that, just as they can work around age verification laws. But there's so many layers to this issue that age verification laws cannot address. I remember porn from magazines, polaroids or whatever being shoved in kids faces by other kids when I was a kid. Today my younger nephews who all knew having smart phones and regular internet access as a norm, the problem is still around but it's on the phone. And indeed some of has traumatized and upset them, even normalizing to one of them that he showed something to me after I told him I don't want to see it.
This why I say we need approaches that aren't age verifications/restrictions (wonderful I've only been explicitly voicing opinions against that but people have more than once now attached the opposite to me).
But where I do feel refulation is need is with social media. No more sexualizing children and if a minor is on it then no pornographic or violent or hateful conent should be on their feeds. Amd no excuses. They wanna brag about all this "cool" stuff they can do with people/manipulate them into wasting increasingly more time on their platform? Then get busy and do something that's actually useful and needed and clamp down on the child exploitation and prevent them from seeing damaging content.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well it wouldn't be the porn websites that had any access to any personal data. All they would have is a recognition that a certain person was over 18 - and coming from some government controlled authority, with liabilities over the data they held.

Which would give governments access to who consumes what media...
And who is the government going to answer to? The government?

Maybe the easy answer here is to just do away with free porn sites and instead turn them into netflix type services.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm not sure that would necessarily happen, if the transactions were made to be anonymous - as to data being discarded and only some 'token' remaining, and which couldn't be tracked.

If it is anonymous, then you can't verify age.

I'm not that trusting either, but I can't see another solution that would keep porn away from kids.

I think I do. Make them paid services like netflix.
8-year olds will likely not have access to payment methods.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

@9-10ths_Penguin I don't know enough about the porn industry to say for sure if your proposal would work. I do know I believe laws against revenge porn should be stricter in general however. I also if more regulations around recruitment would be helpful in order to make things safer for actors

There's also a lot of "home made porn" out there from people who do it "for free" just because they get a kick out of it.
And I can imagine it would incredibly hard to differentiate those uploads from "revenge porn" and / or hidden cams etc or mere hometapes where one or more parties haven't given permission at all for the uploads.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Which would give governments access to who consumes what media...
And who is the government going to answer to? The government?

Not necessarily. If age verification could be done by some trusted authority, like a bank perhaps, which simply generated some 'token' (like a large random number) and associated with your real name or a pseudonym (or both), and where this is then sent to some central checking authority for websites, then the porn website would not know as to who you were, and there might hence be no tracking. Just one idea. And the age verification wouldn't just apply to porn but various other things too.

Maybe the easy answer here is to just do away with free porn sites and instead turn them into netflix type services.

Almost impossible probably - given that once paid-for material is in the hands of any individual, they can do what they like with it. Given the ability to stay anonymous for those who choose to do so.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Ain’t nuthin perfect.

True, but there were times when magazines just showing bare breasts were on the top shelf for a reason - to keep them away from children. In the 1970s, here in the UK at least, images became more explicit, but what we can see now is way over any reasonable expectation of 'natural' change or progress. It is mostly down to lack of control over what was allowed to happen - and has also resulted in the Dark Web for even worse material. It just seems that no one was that interested until the results of having such 'freedoms' came in - as to the damage done to children. Given that it probably doesn't take much to get around any parental controls when one has someone at school who knows how to do this, and will pass such on.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Ow, great. Now the government knows which of their citizens consumes which types of media.


I trust no internet company with my information. None at all.

Smart thinking and right on the dot.

I think we all know by now how data is being used in spite of assurances that they won't do anything but keep your best interest in mind.

If they're going to use my data I want to know what they're going to do with it and I want to be paid for it because that's my information and not theirs.

 

[Koldo]

Should porn sites require IDs so kids wont use them? I think they should but not now. There needs to be time to fix technical issues so it would be safe to have ID checks done privacy concerns. I know only a few states in the US require IDs maybe other countries have implemented them as a requirement and have solved those privacy issues?

I would support that if and only if we, as a society, actually started caring about the children.

I won't dispute that porn might be harmful to children, but it is a fact that alcoholic beverages being legal is much more harmful to children (DWI and parental alcohol abuse, just to cite two examples) . If we actually cared all that much about the children, we would start by banning alcoholic beverage, but we don't.

And that's without even mentioning that there are states in the US where late term abortion has zilch restrictions...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Not necessarily. If age verification could be done by some trusted authority, like a bank perhaps, which simply generated some 'token' (like a large random number) and associated with your real name or a pseudonym (or both), and where this is then sent to some central checking authority for websites, then the porn website would not know as to who you were, and there might hence be no tracking. Just one idea. And the age verification wouldn't just apply to porn but various other things too.

There would still be a trace. A service would send in a request for identity checking. Another service would then do the checking and respond.
That latter service would always know which service did the request and which identity was provided in response.
Neither party could be anonymous because you would need scam detection / prevention.

And off course, all of that would require funds. Somebody is going to have to pay for it.

Almost impossible probably - given that once paid-for material is in the hands of any individual, they can do what they like with it.

Have you ever used netflix? It's a streaming service. There is no "material in the hands of..."
You can't access the media without logging in. And to obtain an account, you need to pay first.

As it stands now, all you need to do is google some sexual term and you'll get page after page after page of porn links.
If porn sites would be streaming services a la netflix, this would not happen.

Given the ability to stay anonymous for those who choose to do so.

You can't have it both ways. There is no "anonymous" in a world with any kind of proper age verification.

And if you wish to go technical.... there actually is no "anonymous" on the internet, full stop.
Given the proper motivation and resources, ultimately you can trace all traffic to any website from any device to an IP. And that IP is going to be linked to an ISP. And that ISP is going to know which client / user of theirs is using that IP. You, as an internet user, can make it exceptionally hard to find out off course... for example by using VPN's etc into other countries so that authorities run into jurisdiction issue etc...

But if we ignore that for a moment and assume access to all systems, then every device, every user is technically completely traceable on the interwebs.

 

[Revoltingest]

True, but there were times when magazines just showing bare breasts were on the top shelf for a reason - to keep them away from children. In the 1970s, here in the UK at least, images became more explicit, but what we can see now is way over any reasonable expectation of 'natural' change or progress. It is mostly down to lack of control over what was allowed to happen - and has also resulted in the Dark Web for even worse material. It just seems that no one was that interested until the results of having such 'freedoms' came in - as to the damage done to children. Given that it probably doesn't take much to get around any parental controls when one has someone at school who knows how to do this, and will pass such on.

Fundamentally, my default is preference
for the dangers of liberty over the dangers
of security.

I saw porn when I was but a wee lad. And
I turned out just....uh.....scrap that argument.

 

[Mock Turtle]

There would still be a trace. A service would send in a request for identity checking. Another service would then do the checking and respond.
That latter service would always know which service did the request and which identity was provided in response.
Neither party could be anonymous because you would need scam detection / prevention.

And off course, all of that would require funds. Somebody is going to have to pay for it.

Why a trace? Given that the bank was only providing a guarantee that some particular customer (Joe Bloggs) was over 18 and that they had then generated a token which was associated with this person (or pseudonym of the person). Why would any know anything further? The bank would have to safeguard this information as it already does with our bank data. This token would reside at some independent authority, and being where it was checked by the porn site.

Have you ever used netflix? It's a streaming service. There is no "material in the hands of..."
You can't access the media without logging in. And to obtain an account, you need to pay first.

Most of the (legal apparently) adult porn sites I visit one doesn't have to log in, but I did have a paid-for once - until I came across the free ones.

As it stands now, all you need to do is google some sexual term and you'll get page after page after page of porn links.
If porn sites would be streaming services a la netflix, this would not happen.


You can't have it both ways. There is no "anonymous" in a world with any kind of proper age verification.

And if you wish to go technical.... there actually is no "anonymous" on the internet, full stop.
Given the proper motivation and resources, ultimately you can trace all traffic to any website from any device to an IP. And that IP is going to be linked to an ISP. And that ISP is going to know which client / user of theirs is using that IP. You, as an internet user, can make it exceptionally hard to find out off course... for example by using VPN's etc into other countries so that authorities run into jurisdiction issue etc...

But if we ignore that for a moment and assume access to all systems, then every device, every user is technically completely traceable on the interwebs.

I'm afraid there is anonymous, with so many using the Dark Web, otherwise it would have been closed down long ago. And it doesn't take much probably even not using such to remain essentially anonymous, given that the police will unlikely have the resources to chase down all those who they would like to apprehend.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Fundamentally, my default is preference
for the dangers of liberty over the dangers
of security.

I saw porn when I was but a wee lad. And
I turned out just....uh.....scrap that argument.

The porn of decades ago is very different from the hardcore porn of today. The most extreme thing you'd see in old timey porn is some bondage, really (thinking of figures like the great Bettie Page). It's far more graphic and demeaning these days.

 

[Soandso]

It's up to the parents to be on top of what their kids are doing online. Kids seeing porn isn't the only problem with kids having free, unmonitored access to computers; there's also predators seeking children of negligent parents as well. The first line of defense is always going to be good parenting