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Should the oneness of humanity be taught in all schools worldwide

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Question is, is the Oneness of Humanity a key to future peace, should it be taught in schools?

The Baha'i say yes, so when such a good logical point is made, the heckling will bring other tangents, God forbid that the Baha'i have something useful to offer.
Oneness of humanity is one thing, but the OP also included the "oneness" of religions.
Let’s take religious prejudice as an example as it is the most powerful force in our world. Let me at the outset state that I believe that all the major religions are true and were revealed progressively to meet the spiritual and social needs of people at the time they were revealed. They all teach virtues and the golden rule. But over time religious leaders seeking power and control have desynchronised the religions which are all part of one unfolding process and turned them into opposing factions. “This is the changeless faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future” (Baha’u’llah) But now as a result of indoctrination, religionists reject the subsequent Teacher leading to a desynchronisation of the unfolding process of progressive revelation and evolutionary nature of religion and prejudices against the new faith.

But in the OP there is already a condemning of religions because they've been corrupted. Should that be part of the curriculum too? Teaching the kids how "originally" all religions taught virtues and the golden rule? But power-seeking religious leaders ruined it all?

"Scoffers", "hecklers" is that how Baha'is are told to view people that disagree with them? Like one of the previous posts said, Baha'is have not earned the trust of some of us. Some of us did try to learn and believe in some of the religions. All of them had some good things. But too many of them demanded complete and total belief and obedience to their religion.

When it comes from me, I'm not heckling or scoffing but have real concerns about some of the beliefs held by Baha'is. I'm questioning and doubting whether or not the claims made by Baha'u'llah and his religion are true.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Was other people that changed the discussion from the OP.

Question is, is the Oneness of Humanity a key to future peace, should it be taught in schools?

The Baha'i say yes, so when such a good logical point is made, the heckling will bring other tangents, God forbid that the Baha'i have something useful to offer.

Regards Tony
Heckling. Hecklers. Yes, excellent Freudian slip.
Hecklers are those who rudely interrput the authoriyy
figure with abuse and derision.
Unworthies, ruffians, dogs worrying at the heels of
the Great, who in the tradition of martyrs carries yet on
unfazed. Above it all

Good for you to make it clear how you regard
yourself.
And those who see through the ridiculous fraud.

"Bahai" does have something to offer, all right.
So does smallpox.
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
Oneness of humanity is one thing, but the OP also included the "oneness" of religions.


But in the OP there is already a condemning of religions because they've been corrupted. Should that be part of the curriculum too? Teaching the kids how "originally" all religions taught virtues and the golden rule? But power-seeking religious leaders ruined it all?

"Scoffers", "hecklers" is that how Baha'is are told to view people that disagree with them? Like one of the previous posts said, Baha'is have not earned the trust of some of us. Some of us did try to learn and believe in some of the religions. All of them had some good things. But too many of them demanded complete and total belief and obedience to their religion.

When it comes from me, I'm not heckling or scoffing but have real concerns about some of the beliefs held by Baha'is. I'm questioning and doubting whether or not the claims made by Baha'u'llah and his religion are true.
What in balulahs msgniloquent maunderings
is worthy of more than casual dismissal?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
What in balulahs msgniloquent maunderings
is worthy of more than casual dismissal?
I give them way more benefit of the doubt, than you. But I can understand why you and some of the others give them nothing. By how most Baha'is have responded to skeptics and those that criticize their beliefs, they don't deserve any respect. Because they haven't really shown any respect. They believe and make it clear that they think those of us that dare question them are blind and lost in our disbelief. Which makes Baha'is no different than any other religious group that thinks they are the true ones.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I give them way more benefit of the doubt, than you. But I can understand why you and some of the others give them nothing. By how most Baha'is have responded to skeptics and those that criticize their beliefs, they don't deserve any respect. Because they haven't really shown any respect. They believe and make it clear that they think those of us that dare question them are blind and lost in our disbelief. Which makes Baha'is no different than any other religious group that thinks they are the true ones.
What doubt is there to have beyond
vanishingly small?
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
They believe and make it clear that they think those of us that dare question them are blind and lost in our disbelief. Which makes Baha'is no different than any other religious group that thinks they are the true ones.

It is Baha'u'llah that has offered that humanity is not able to escape the snares set of God, which covers many aspects, not just faith.

"....None can escape the snares He setteth, and no soul can find release except through submission to His will...."

The Truth is the Elixer, our response to it is what defines the future of humanity.

Fair warning has been given.

"..Consider the human world. See how nations have come and gone. They have been of all minds and purposes. Some were mere captives of self and desire, engulfed in the passions of the lower nature. They attained to wealth, to the comforts of life, to fame. And what was the final outcome? Utter evanescence and oblivion. Reflect upon this. Look upon it with the eye of admonition. No trace of them remains, no fruit, no result, no benefit; they have gone utterly -- complete effacement. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 186

The Oneness of Humanity is a key. Who is teaching this already? Regards Tony
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
"..Consider the human world. See how nations have come and gone. They have been of all minds and purposes. Some were mere captives of self and desire, engulfed in the passions of the lower nature. They attained to wealth, to the comforts of life, to fame. And what was the final outcome? Utter evanescence and oblivion. Reflect upon this. Look upon it with the eye of admonition. No trace of them remains, no fruit, no result, no benefit; they have gone utterly -- complete effacement. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 186
To anyone who reflects on this passage with a modicum of critical thought it shows how ridiculous the threats of the Baha'i god are in my view. For example it says of the nations that passed, "Some were mere captives of self and desire". The obvious corollary here in my view is that some nations that passed away were godly and selfless. This just goes to show that nations come and go, God does not intervene to save the godly nations.

Which makes the point of the threat worthless in my view. Our nation will be destroyed if and when its time comes, and its devotion or otherwise to the Baha'i god is irrelevant to that as I see it.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Oneness of Humanity is a key. Who is teaching this already? Regards Tony
Well as explained in post#379 Baha'i are speaking out of both sides of their mouths on the issue of the oneness of humanity.

The spiritual but not religious, the secular humanist and even some other religious groups seem to be able to teach we are one human species without shunning so called covenant breakers or opposing gay marriage so looks to me like Baha'i doesn't have much to offer in that regard.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Well as explained in post#379 Baha'i are speaking out of both sides of their mouths on the issue of the oneness of humanity.

The spiritual but not religious, the secular humanist and even some other religious groups seem to be able to teach we are one human species without shunning so called covenant breakers or opposing gay marriage so looks to me like Baha'i doesn't have much to offer in that regard.
By numbers alone, Baha'i have little to offer. In things like natural disasters, other groups can mobilize in huge numbers rather quickly. So too can they raise money. It really is the epitome of all talk, no action, in so many ways. Here in my city, and every city in the western world, there are all kinds of charities doing wonderful things. Some of the work they do is truly amazing, without any kind of discrimination whatsoever.

On a side note, besides gay marriage, Baha'i also recommend conversion therapy for the 'disorder'.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It is Baha'u'llah that has offered that humanity is not able to escape the snares set of God, which covers many aspects, not just faith.

"....None can escape the snares He setteth, and no soul can find release except through submission to His will...."

The Truth is the Elixer, our response to it is what defines the future of humanity.

Fair warning has been given.

"..Consider the human world. See how nations have come and gone. They have been of all minds and purposes. Some were mere captives of self and desire, engulfed in the passions of the lower nature. They attained to wealth, to the comforts of life, to fame. And what was the final outcome? Utter evanescence and oblivion. Reflect upon this. Look upon it with the eye of admonition. No trace of them remains, no fruit, no result, no benefit; they have gone utterly -- complete effacement. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 186

The Oneness of Humanity is a key. Who is teaching this already? Regards Tony
Well then... that should be taught in schools too. Children can be told that all people are one and equal, but unless a person submits to the will of God, as taught by the newest messenger from God, the Baha'i prophet, then people aren't going to be good enough to be able to live as one with all people. They will fall into their self and desire.
 

bahamut19

Member
To anyone who reflects on this passage with a modicum of critical thought it shows how ridiculous the threats of the Baha'i god are in my view. For example it says of the nations that passed, "Some were mere captives of self and desire". The obvious corollary here in my view is that some nations that passed away were godly and selfless. This just goes to show that nations come and go, God does not intervene to save the godly nations.

Which makes the point of the threat worthless in my view. Our nation will be destroyed if and when its time comes, and its devotion or otherwise to the Baha'i god is irrelevant to that as I see it.
What nation would you say has been godly and has passed? How old you measure how godly a nation is or was?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Well then... that should be taught in schools too. Children can be told that all people are one and equal, but unless a person submits to the will of God, as taught by the newest messenger from God, the Baha'i prophet, then people aren't going to be good enough to be able to live as one with all people. They will fall into their self and desire.
" all people" are not good enough to live
to live with me.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What nation would you say has been godly and has passed? How old you measure how godly a nation is or was?
You can't say other than by professed belief, however that's besides the point in my view.

The admission that only some of those nations that passed away were ungodly shows that God does not intervene.

If you are of the opinion that only those nations which accept Baha'u'llah will be spared you have to not only explain such long-standing civilisations as the Chinese and Hindu civilisations - you also have to explain why any nations exist today given that not a single nation has accepted Baha'u'llah with the exception of Samoa whose king briefly acknowledged the Baha'i faith before his descendants returned to Christianity in my view.
 

bahamut19

Member
You can't say other than by professed belief, however that's besides the point in my view.

The admission that only some of those nations that passed away were ungodly shows that God does not intervene.

If you are of the opinion that only those nations which accept Baha'u'llah will be spared you have to not only explain such long-standing civilisations as the Chinese and Hindu civilisations - you also have to explain why any nations exist today given that not a single nation has accepted Baha'u'llah with the exception of Samoa whose king briefly acknowledged the Baha'i faith before his descendants returned to Christianity in my view.
I have a different perspective on this, although its something quite different than you might come across. Often when Baha'u'llah speaks, the voice is not always his. Depending on the topic, sometimes he may speak as God (but isn't God himself), or may speak as a servant of God. When I consider the interplay of the Seven Valleys and Kitab-i-Iqan, I believe when there are directives such as follow me, it isn't always about following Baha'u'llah. It is follow God. And elsewhere when there is a command for follow me, it isn't Baha'u'llah per se, but follow the station of Manifestation/Prophet/Messenger/Avatar etc. Its like when someone asks if you went to see a doctor and a loved one tells you to do what the doctor says. You may have Dr. Alpha earlier in your life, and later in life you have Dr. Beta, and your loved one sees Dr. Gamma. You and your loved one has the command, turn to and obey the doctor or you may suffer consequences of ill health. Doctor is merely a title or position. The fact that there are different people who fulfill the role of doctor doesn't really matter so much, if you follow Alpha, Beta, or Gamma, you are still following a doctor. A common belief most Baha'is have is when you obey Baha'u'llah, you are obeying all Manifestations. Somehow they don't consider if you obey Laozi, you might also be obeying Baha'u'llah.

You see, the doctors you see should do a good job in bring about good health. Now if you go see your doctor, and for every advice they give you, you decide to also take the advice of your well-meaning but uninformed aunt, or some random healer with no qualifications, you may get some of the benefit of the doctor, but not the full benefit. Taking health advice from bad sources takes away from the maximum benefit. Each religion ever known to mankind, matter their godliness or perceived godliness, has turned to other sources other than God (or whomever was acting on behalf of God). The Baha'i Faith is included in this. Muslims have their hadiths they rely on more than the Qur'an, Catholics have Paul, Popes, and Priests which weigh more on their faith than Jesus, and Marxism/Nationalism are recent examples of how Taoism can be effected in one of those long existing countries such as China.

Has China always existed? In a way, yeah. Dynasties rise and fall. They've been occupied by Japan, and restarted differently. When nations are considered to rise and fall, it isn't exactly that a name changes. The governing institution changes, whether its from outside people or from within. So when Baha'u'llah tells Napoleon he is going to lose everything if he continues on his path, its something which came true. France remained a country, but France is not the same country it was then. It's been occupied, its had a new government and new constitution. Since the time of Baha'u'llah, there have not been many current nations whose governing institution has stayed the same. America is one of those nations. Would you consider America godly? In many ways it does not seem to be... but it is a place where people can seek God in any path they choose and relatively be safe in doing so. That's a great blessing despite America having a secular government and there being a great deal of activities going on that traditional religionists find abhorent. Maybe they only find these activities abhorent because they follow Paul, not Jesus. Maybe China struggles in a per person basis because Laozi or Buddha aren't as well remembered as they once were while Muslims in Urumqi face abuse. I do believe, though, that China would be better off if Laozi and/or Buddha were the primary educator instead of the Chinese Communist Party, and Muslims of Urumqi and elsewhere would be in better condition if Muhammad was the primary educator instead of Abu Huraira (a primary Sunni Hadith narrator). These "doctors" would help heal humankind in a way to bring about peace and oneness.

In the end, I think if any person or group of people try their best to follow the original teachings of whatever faith it is they believe in, as long as the faith is used to keep people from harming others, eventually it will lead to the path which Baha'u'llah described. I also believe the world's population is trending in that direction. Look at how many turn their back on traditional religious institutions and seek their own path. Even if that path is atheism (which tends to be a temporary path for most), its been a path which has led to more peace, a safer world, and greater opportunities for women and people who are usually marginalized in traditionally religious societies. There's not a single war in the entire Western Hemisphere. The only armed conflicts in the world exist in eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Central and Eastern Africa. It's a fairly small geography in conflict.

The oneness of humanity is being taught. It's not being led by the Baha'i Faith, as they cannot build communities which even serve themselves yet... but it is being taught through media, through tourism, through places such as this forum, by migration, and other means. It's an inevitable force that humanity is becoming aware of as our knowledge and education gets better. I look forward to all of this continuing and I hope Baha'u'llah's vision can be achieved through the efforts of all of us.
 
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TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Well then... that should be taught in schools too. Children can be told that all people are one and equal, but unless a person submits to the will of God, as taught by the newest messenger from God, the Baha'i prophet, then people aren't going to be good enough to be able to live as one with all people. They will fall into their self and desire.
It is all too true CG,my life experiences has shown me the wisdom in that statement.

The fear of God is healthy when it cones down to a spiritual and material choice, it is way too easy to justify a material choice on supposedly spiritual grounds. People pray for strange things.

About time all.of pray for and bring about the oneness of humanity.

Regards Tony
 

bahamut19

Member
It is all too true CG,my life experiences has shown me the wisdom in that statement.

The fear of God is healthy when it cones down to a spiritual and material choice, it is way too easy to justify a material choice on supposedly spiritual grounds. People pray for strange things.

About time all.of pray for and bring about the oneness of humanity.

Regards Tony
CG was being a bit sarcastic, if you didn't notice.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I have a different perspective on this, although its something quite different than you might come across. Often when Baha'u'llah speaks, the voice is not always his. Depending on the topic, sometimes he may speak as God (but isn't God himself), or may speak as a servant of God. When I consider the interplay of the Seven Valleys and Kitab-i-Iqan, I believe when there are directives such as follow me, it isn't always about following Baha'u'llah. It is follow God. And elsewhere when there is a command for follow me, it isn't Baha'u'llah per se, but follow the station of Manifestation/Prophet/Messenger/Avatar etc. Its like when someone asks if you went to see a doctor and a loved one tells you to do what the doctor says. You may have Dr. Alpha earlier in your life, and later in life you have Dr. Beta, and your loved one sees Dr. Gamma. You and your loved one has the command, turn to and obey the doctor or you may suffer consequences of ill health. Doctor is merely a title or position. The fact that there are different people who fulfill the role of doctor doesn't really matter so much, if you follow Alpha, Beta, or Gamma, you are still following a doctor. A common belief most Baha'is have is when you obey Baha'u'llah, you are obeying all Manifestations. Somehow they don't consider if you obey Laozi, you might also be obeying Baha'u'llah.

You see, the doctors you see should do a good job in bring about good health. Now if you go see your doctor, and for every advice they give you, you decide to also take the advice of your well-meaning but uninformed aunt, or some random healer with no qualifications, you may get some of the benefit of the doctor, but not the full benefit. Taking health advice from bad sources takes away from the maximum benefit. Each religion ever known to mankind, matter their godliness or perceived godliness, has turned to other sources other than God (or whomever was acting on behalf of God). The Baha'i Faith is included in this. Muslims have their hadiths they rely on more than the Qur'an, Catholics have Paul, Popes, and Priests which weigh more on their faith than Jesus, and Marxism/Nationalism are recent examples of how Taoism can be effected in one of those long existing countries such as China.

Has China always existed? In a way, yeah. Dynasties rise and fall. They've been occupied by Japan, and restarted differently. When nations are considered to rise and fall, it isn't exactly that a name changes. The governing institution changes, whether its from outside people or from within. So when Baha'u'llah tells Napoleon he is going to lose everything if he continues on his path, its something which came true. France remained a country, but France is not the same country it was then. It's been occupied, its had a new government and new constitution. Since the time of Baha'u'llah, there have not been many current nations whose governing institution has stayed the same. America is one of those nations. Would you consider America godly? In many ways it does not seem to be... but it is a place where people can seek God in any path they choose and relatively be safe in doing so. That's a great blessing despite America having a secular government and there being a great deal of activities going on that traditional religionists find abhorent. Maybe they only find these activities abhorent because they follow Paul, not Jesus. Maybe China struggles in a per person basis because Laozi or Buddha aren't as well remembered as they once were while Muslims in Urumqi face abuse. I do believe, though, that China would be better off if Laozi and/or Buddha were the primary educator instead of the Chinese Communist Party, and Muslims of Urumqi and elsewhere would be in better condition if Muhammad was the primary educator instead of Abu Huraira (a primary Sunni Hadith narrator). These "doctors" would help heal humankind in a way to bring about peace and oneness.

In the end, I think if any person or group of people try their best to follow the original teachings of whatever faith it is they believe in, as long as the faith is used to keep people from harming others, eventually it will lead to the path which Baha'u'llah described. I also believe the world's population is trending in that direction. Look at how many turn their back on traditional religious institutions and seek their own path. Even if that path is atheism (which tends to be a temporary path for most), its been a path which has led to more peace, a safer world, and greater opportunities for women and people who are usually marginalized in traditionally religious societies. There's not a single war in the entire Western Hemisphere. The only armed conflicts in the world exist in eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Central and Eastern Africa. It's a fairly small geography in conflict.

The oneness of humanity is being taught. It's not being led by the Baha'i Faith, as they cannot build communities which even serve themselves yet... but it is being taught through media, through tourism, through places such as this forum, by migration, and other means. It's an inevitable force that humanity is becoming aware of as our knowledge and education gets better. I look forward to all of this continuing and I hope Baha'u'llah's vision can be achieved through the efforts of all of us.
Part of the problem with reffering to messengers being like doctors is that unlike messengers doctors do not (ususally) declare themselves to be infallible and this allows medicine to progress through further research. This has allowed medicine to progress from the likes of leeches to the likes of antibiotics.

Could you imagine if a doctor were so arrogant as to proclaim that no one else coming after him would be able to add to medicine for a thousand years? If people believed that it would make medicine very slow to progress in my view.

And that is the problem I see with so called "messengers" such as Baha'u'llah who acquired knowledge from others, added an amount to it, declared themselves infallible then endeavoured to shut down further progress for a period of a thousand years.

Since Baha'u'llahs time some of us have learnt that women make great leaders - even at the global level, that outlawing anal sex is the cause of more harm than good, that theocracy is inferior to democracy, that copper does not turn into gold if left liquefied in it's mine for seventy years, that there is not aliens on every planet etc in my view. So I believe it is not hard for an open minded person to see why the analogy of messengers to competent doctors is a failure provided they are prepared to critically examine their own religious beliefs.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Part of the problem with reffering to messengers being like doctors is that unlike messengers doctors do not (ususally) declare themselves to be infallible and this allows medicine to progress through further research. This has allowed medicine to progress from the likes of leeches to the likes of antibiotics.

Could you imagine if a doctor were so arrogant as to proclaim that no one else coming after him would be able to add to medicine for a thousand years? If people believed that it would make medicine very slow to progress in my view.

And that is the problem I see with so called "messengers" such as Baha'u'llah who acquired knowledge from others, added an amount to it, declared themselves infallible then endeavoured to shut down further progress for a period of a thousand years.

Since Baha'u'llahs time some of us have learnt that women make great leaders - even at the global level, that outlawing anal sex is the cause of more harm than good, that theocracy is inferior to democracy, that copper does not turn into gold if left liquefied in it's mine for seventy years, that there is not aliens on every planet etc in my view. So I believe it is not hard for an open minded person to see why the analogy of messengers to competent doctors is a failure provided they are prepared to critically examine their own religious beliefs.
People do come to think that their thoughts are more progressive that God's given wisdom.

That is why God sends the Messengers, to show them the erroneous consequences of those thoughts.

Some laws God gives do not change, Marriage and lawful sex is an example of those, and these laws are meant for an entire dispensation. There are so many yet to be discovered complications from breaking those laws, health issues, personal issues, family issues, community issues.

Most likely have to retrace our steps and teach morals and virtues in school again as well. I have no need to argue the point, I see humanity has strayed far from morality, thinking they are progressive thoughts.

Regards Tony
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There are so many yet to be discovered complications from breaking those laws
No problem Tony, because unlike your arrogant so called messenger science is able to change to fit new discoveries as they arise in my view.

But it would be unwise to simply assume that breaking so called divine laws would cause yet to be discovered disaster in the future because otherwise people born into the religion of Huitzilopochtli would have to keep on sacrificing humans to their God for fear of as yet undiscovered consequences of breaking the so called divine law of human sacrifice in my opinion. And this is enough to demonstrate why humans should only make laws based on demonstrable harm as opposed to superstition handed to us as divine law in my opinion.
 
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