Should the oneness of humanity be taught in all schools worldwide

[McBell]

The ‘oneness of mankind’ is a principle. As such we have no monopoly or trademark on it. People anywhere can create their own curriculum based on this principle using humanitarian, Buddhist, Hindu or any other material. The main thing is it promotes unity and harmony between all people.

So there is no "working model" of it outside your Baha'i community?

Interesting how you seem to be completely unable to give a straight forward answer.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So there is no "working model" of it outside your Baha'i community?

Interesting how you seem to be completely unable to give a straight forward answer.

The Baha’i World Community offered its experience as a global community to the United Nations in 1986 so it’s up to world leaders to decide for themselves if they wish look at using some or all of it. The Foundation is the oneness of mankind.

Its existence is yet another convincing proof of the practicality of its Founder’s vision of a united world, another evidence that humanity can live as one global society, equal to whatever challenges its coming of age may entail. If the Bahá’í experience can contribute in whatever measure to reinforcing hope in the unity of the human race, we are happy to offer it as a model for study. (The Promise of World Peace)

 

[Trailblazer]

Ah.
So perhaps you can present a "working model" of this oneness of humanity that is not exclusively Baha'i?

Sorry, when I said "no" I was not responding to the question:
So basically, your only "working model" is comprised solely of Baha'i, some whom have converted from other religions, but are now Baha'i?

When I said "no" I was responding to this:
The more you post, the more it looks as though you are looking for more converts.

 

[McBell]

Sorry, when I said "no" I was not responding to the question:
So basically, your only "working model" is comprised solely of Baha'i, some whom have converted from other religions, but are now Baha'i?

When I said "no" I was responding to this:
The more you post, the more it looks as though you are looking for more converts.

Except that it really does.
the complete outright avoidance of answering direct questions by presenting sermons instead of answering...
Yes, that is recruiting, not honest discussion.

 

[bahamut19]

Pretty funny who thinks thats
a "winner".

Post any paragraph you like,
the noise / signal ratio is at least
10:1. Maybe 50 or 100.
Or didnt you notice.

I would notice if you provide a specific example.

 

[bahamut19]

I have Baha’i friends who have taught Ruhi to many non Baha’is and they then passed it on to others.

From this example, would you have an estimate of how many non-Baha'is have led a Ruhi study circle

It’s not well known yet but in places where it is, governments I have heard have requested some programs such as junior youth or children’s classes for their classes.

Could you name one of those governments?

My niece in Burma runs a full time Baha’i inspired nursery school which comes under Ruhi Book 3 and its other units. I facilitate Ruhi a few times every week and we learn so much. The thing non Baha’is don’t know is that nowhere throughout all the courses is there any conversion attempt or element. Anyone could just do the course, gain valuable skills and walk away.

Baha'u'llah doesn't allow a nursery age child (aged 3-5) to declare a named religion. However, this does tie into something Trident has discussed elsewhere. Many Baha'i communities do not seem to have young people who are part of the faith, or active in any way. Does Ruhi Book 3 help young children associate any of their education with Baha'u'llah in any way?

 

[F1fan]

The Baha’i World Community offered its experience as a global community to the United Nations in 1986 so it’s up to world leaders to decide for themselves if they wish look at using some or all of it. The Foundation is the oneness of mankind.

Its existence is yet another convincing proof of the practicality of its Founder’s vision of a united world, another evidence that humanity can live as one global society, equal to whatever challenges its coming of age may entail. If the Bahá’í experience can contribute in whatever measure to reinforcing hope in the unity of the human race, we are happy to offer it as a model for study. (The Promise of World Peace)

From what I have read the plan is too simplistic and idealistic. For most citizens of the world there is nothing new with global peace. It is tribalists and extremists that your plan doesn't work for, and there's nothing about what to do about them. You haven't been able to answer what is to be done with those who are tribal and violent. So how is Baha'i supposed to work?

 

[Trailblazer]

Except that it really does.
the complete outright avoidance of answering direct questions by presenting sermons instead of answering...
Yes, that is recruiting, not honest discussion.

I am pretty direct, but not all people are as direct as others. We are all different.
Some people ramble more than others, especially when they are excited about a topic, but that doesn't mean they are looking for converts.

 

[Trailblazer]

Pretty funny who thinks thats
a "winner".

It was a Winner since what you consider gibberish is only what you consider gibberish.
That does not mean it is gibberish. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[ppp]

The Baha’i World Community offered its experience as a global community to the United Nations in 1986 so it’s up to world leaders to decide for themselves if they wish look at using some or all of it. The Foundation is the oneness of mankind.

Can you cite any significant international occurrence where the Baha’i World Community has led, mediated, and resolved a crisis, dispute, or disharmony between two or more non-Baha'i entities?

 

[CG Didymus]

As to other religions I believe that all the Founders such as Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Christ and Baha’u’llah were infallible and All Knowing but not the followers or priests and clergy. So I accept all the Founders have said as truth but not the religious leaders who introduced many man made doctrines.

Other than Baha'u'llah and maybe Muhammad, all we have is what the followers have said about those other "founders". And which religion did Krishna found? Or even Moses? And, I suppose, that Baha'is believe all these "founders" were real, historical people and not just a myth?

Baha’is accept all the major religions as equally true and valid.

Are you sure? How about right now? I've asked this before... Going by what each religion believes today, do Baha'i really think that what they teach is equally true with what Baha'is believe is true? Because I don't think the Baha'i Faith really believes that any of the other religions teaches the truth anymore.

And I'd even question whether Baha'is believe that any of the other religions ever taught and practiced the truth... the truth, that is, as defined and believed by the Baha'is. Here's a quote from Abdul Baha about Buddhism...

If you look at the present practice of the Buddhist religion, you will see that there is little of the Reality left. Many worship idols although their teaching forbids it. – Abdu’l-Baha, Abdu’l-Baha in London, p. 63.​

One does not give up one’s former belief when one becomes a Baha’i.

I know some beliefs from some religions that Baha'i Faith teaches that they are not true. Some of those beliefs, like the resurrection of Jesus or reincarnation as believed by some Hindus, are re-interpreted as being symbolic and not to be taken literally. So, with some former beliefs, I do believe, the new Baha'i is expected to give them up. If you disagree, can you show some Baha'i Scripture that supports your statements?

 

[Audie]

Other than Baha'u'llah and maybe Muhammad, all we have is what the followers have said about those other "founders". And which religion did Krishna found? Or even Moses? And, I suppose, that Baha'is believe all these "founders" were real, historical people and not just a myth?

Are you sure? How about right now? I've asked this before... Going by what each religion believes today, do Baha'i really think that what they teach is equally true with what Baha'is believe is true? Because I don't think the Baha'i Faith really believes that any of the other religions teaches the truth anymore.

And I'd even question whether Baha'is believe that any of the other religions ever taught and practiced the truth... the truth, that is, as defined and believed by the Baha'is. Here's a quote from Abdul Baha about Buddhism...

If you look at the present practice of the Buddhist religion, you will see that there is little of the Reality left. Many worship idols although their teaching forbids it. – Abdu’l-Baha, Abdu’l-Baha in London, p. 63.​

I know some beliefs from some religions that Baha'i Faith teaches that they are not true. Some of those beliefs, like the resurrection of Jesus or reincarnation as believed by some Hindus, are re-interpreted as being symbolic and not to be taken literally. So, with some former beliefs, I do believe, the new Baha'i is expected to give them up. If you disagree, can you show some Baha'i Scripture that supports your statements?

I think they are all equally true.

 

[Audie]

I would notice if you provide a specific example.

I actually doubt that, as you havent
noticed yet. Same for your cheerleader.

Why dont you choose any paragraph at
random, and after deleting all adjectives,
repetition etc, see what the core " message"
is.
I went through one one time and it all came down
to a half dozen words. And nothing interestung in that.

Provide any passage. They are all written the same way.
I could do it for you, though the passages i see
quoted here are far from fun to read, and its
not for me. Its for you. Ive already see it for what it us.

Its kind of obvious.

 

[Vinayaka]

I actually doubt that, as you havent
noticed yet. Same for your cheerleader.

Why dont you choose any paragraph at
random, and after deleting all adjectives,
repetition etc, see what the core " message"
is.
I went through one one time and it all came down
to a half dozen words. And nothing interestung in that.

Provide any passage. They are all written the same way.
I could do it for you, though the passages i see
quoted here are far from fun to read, and its
not for me. Its for you. Ive already see it for what it us.

Its kind of obvious.

Obvious as in like this ... "And when Our Words reached this point, the fragrance of knowledge wafted and the orb of oneness shone forth from the horizon of the heaven of utterance. Blessed is whosoever is attracted by the voice to the lofty apex and furthermost end and learned from the sound of My Supreme Pen that which is desired by the Lord of this world and the world to come! Verily, he who does not drink from Our sealed choice wine, the seal of which We have broken by Our Name, the self-subsistent, is verily one who has not attained to the lights of Oneness or known the purpose of the Books of God, the Lord of the heaven and earth, the King of the next world and the present one; and such an one is accounted of the polytheists in the Books of God, the knower, the omniscient."

I concur.

 

[Audie]

No fantasy. We already have established a world community comprised of the different races, religions and nationalities so it’s no utopia. And we don’t have the conflicts, disunity and wars that the rest of the world has. The oneness of mankind works and the Baha’i World Community is proof of that.

The world has never been under comtrol.
Fantasy that it ever was.
" Restore" that which never was- fantasy.

"Clarity" in 100 to1 noise : signal ratio - fantasy

"Oneness" of all humanity. Fantasy.

Your " god" , "teachers" , their " message",
' educating" people into world harmony- fantasy.

Your little so callrd community does not have wars. *
And that proves "bahai" will solve world probs. Fantasy.

Theres nothing in your post that isnt dream world
out to lunch nonsense.

* a list of " communities" thst dont go to war could
be atempted. Do you care to star the list?

Associatiion of...
Assocoation of...
Associ....

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Would you be able to give an example of the gibberish you say came from Baha'u'llah?

Gibberish might not be the best word if gibberish implies unintelligible. That writing is insubstantial. Pap or weak tea might be better terms for it. Vinayaka just provided a nice example:

"And when Our Words reached this point, the fragrance of knowledge wafted and the orb of oneness shone forth from the horizon of the heaven of utterance. Blessed is whosoever is attracted by the voice to the lofty apex and furthermost end and learned from the sound of My Supreme Pen that which is desired by the Lord of this world and the world to come!"

That says nothing. Nothing there can be called correct or incorrect. No idea there is instructive. It's poetry - a verbal Rorschach test of sorts. It says whatever the reader brings to the process. It's purpose is the same as lofty music. It reads like a Hallmark greeting card, a horoscope, or a fortune cookie fortune, but less concrete or specific.

Some people say that they see a god speaking through this person. I just see a poet exhorting others to be nice to one another and live piously as he understands that, although in this instance, it's not even that.

The situation in the world is completely out of control. What we need is clarity which is what the Prophets bring.

What we need are fewer people telling us that the world is out of control. That's a basic mind-controlling technique. It's what the Republicans are doing regarding the southern American border. To hear them, all hell has broken loose there, yet most local's lives are minimally affected. The Christians use Satan where the conservatives use antifa, but the message is the same and its intended effect the same. 'Danger lurks everywhere. You are not safe. You need us. Only we can save you.'

I recently was visited by the Jehovah's Witnesses. The visit began by assuming that the world was a terrible place, getting worse, and that I probably agreed with that. I did not. I explained that although many live difficult lives, the world is also a wonderful place for many, and that I was happy being in it. That was literally the end of the discussion. They said thank you and moved along. That surprised me. Why did they give up so quickly and easily? Were they unprepared for and stymied by my answer? That didn't seem possible, but what else could it be? My point is that if I didn't see the world as going to hell in a bucket, it seems that they thought they had nothing to say to me. And they were correct. They need to convince one of that first.

Roughly 6 million people from all races, religions and nationalities functioning on the concept of the oneness of humanity.

Functioning? That seems like another substance-free comment. How is that different from not functioning on the oneness of humanity?

For example the Baha’i community of the USA focus a lot on racial harmony by educating people of the oneness of races and having curriculum to educate and heal the rifts between races there.

A great example of the inefficacy of that approach. You are completely overmatched by divisive conservative indoctrination.

The object of this thread is promote the concept of the oneness of humankind

But you haven't done that. You've asserted it. The people that actually do that are the humanists. They are the people saying that that LGBTQ+ individual doesn't deserve religious bigotry, for example. They are the ones advocating for equal social and economic opportunity for all through governments that educate and protect citizens equally. The rest just talk about peace and love and sing kumbaya. Like the Baha'i.

What you are seeing on this thread is a sample of the world's reaction to Baha'ism and the claims it makes for and about itself. The world doesn't see the Baha'i as they see themselves.

 

[Audie]

Obvious as in like this ... "And when Our Words reached this point, the fragrance of knowledge wafted and the orb of oneness shone forth from the horizon of the heaven of utterance. Blessed is whosoever is attracted by the voice to the lofty apex and furthermost end and learned from the sound of My Supreme Pen that which is desired by the Lord of this world and the world to come! Verily, he who does not drink from Our sealed choice wine, the seal of which We have broken by Our Name, the self-subsistent, is verily one who has not attained to the lights of Oneness or known the purpose of the Books of God, the Lord of the heaven and earth, the King of the next world and the present one; and such an one is accounted of the polytheists in the Books of God, the knower, the omniscient."

I concur.

If you can make yourself do it, whats a
one line summary? Doesnt need to be
a complete sentence.

 

[Audie]

Gibberish might not be the best word if gibberish implies unintelligible. That writing is insubstantial. Pap or weak tea might be better terms for it. Vinayaka just provided a nice example:

"And when Our Words reached this point, the fragrance of knowledge wafted and the orb of oneness shone forth from the horizon of the heaven of utterance. Blessed is whosoever is attracted by the voice to the lofty apex and furthermost end and learned from the sound of My Supreme Pen that which is desired by the Lord of this world and the world to come!"

That says nothing. Nothing there can be called correct or incorrect. No idea there is instructive. It's poetry - a verbal Rorschach test of sorts. It says whatever the reader brings to the process. It's purpose is the same as lofty music. It reads like a Hallmark greeting card, a horoscope, or a fortune cookie fortune, but less concrete or specific.

Some people say that they see a god speaking through this person. I just see a poet exhorting others to be nice to one another and live piously as he understands that, although in this instance, it's not even that.

What we need are fewer people telling us that the world is out of control. That's a basic mind-controlling technique. It's what the Republicans are doing regarding the southern American border. To hear them, all hell has broken loose there, yet most local's lives are minimally affected. The Christians use Satan where the conservatives use antifa, but the message is the same and its intended effect the same. 'Danger lurks everywhere. You are not safe. You need us. Only we can save you.'

I recently was visited by the Jehovah's Witnesses. The visit began by assuming that the world was a terrible place, getting worse, and that I probably agreed with that. I did not. I explained that although many live difficult lives, the world is also a wonderful place for many, and that I was happy being in it. That was literally the end of the discussion. They said thank you and moved along. That surprised me. Why did they give up so quickly and easily? Were they unprepared for and stymied by my answer? That didn't seem possible, but what else could it be? My point is that if I didn't see the world as going to hell in a bucket, it seems that they thought they had nothing to say to me. And they were correct. They need to convince one of that first.

Functioning? That seems like another substance-free comment. How is that different from not functioning on the oneness of humanity?

A great example of the inefficacy of that approach. You are completely overmatched by divisive conservative indoctrination.

But you haven't done that. You've asserted it. The people that actually do that are the humanists. They are the people saying that that LGBTQ+ individual doesn't deserve religious bigotry, for example. They are the ones advocating for equal social and economic opportunity for all through governments that educate and protect citizens equally. The rest just talk about peace and love and sing kumbaya. Like the Baha'i.

What you are seeing on this thread is a sample of the world's reaction to Baha'ism and the claims it makes for and about itself. The world doesn't see the Baha'i as they see themselves.

Id have to disagree on whether its gibberish.
Unless you can figure what it means and tell us.

And " outmatched by conservative..." is imo being
divisive yourself.

In the event, the "message" of bahai is such
worse- than- nonsense gibberish that thetrs
no match to be outmatched in.

 

[Trailblazer]

Obvious as in like this ... "And when Our Words reached this point, the fragrance of knowledge wafted and the orb of oneness shone forth from the horizon of the heaven of utterance. Blessed is whosoever is attracted by the voice to the lofty apex and furthermost end and learned from the sound of My Supreme Pen that which is desired by the Lord of this world and the world to come! Verily, he who does not drink from Our sealed choice wine, the seal of which We have broken by Our Name, the self-subsistent, is verily one who has not attained to the lights of Oneness or known the purpose of the Books of God, the Lord of the heaven and earth, the King of the next world and the present one; and such an one is accounted of the polytheists in the Books of God, the knower, the omniscient."

I concur.

That is one reason why we have the Writings of Adbu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

 

[CG Didymus]

I think they are all equally true.

In a way, I agree with Baha'is and you... that all the major religions are equally true. But I don't necessarily believe like the Baha'is that some God sent a special manifestation to teach certain things to certain people in certain places at certain times.

I think it's possible that people made up their own Gods and religions that fit their culture. The Baha'i Faith comes into it in a slightly different way. They say that there's this one God that had his special messenger give people social and spiritual laws and teachings specific for that time. But then the people screwed up those teachings by adding things in and misinterpreting the original message.

But there is no "original" message in most all religions. All we have is what the people, the followers of the religion tell us. So, essentially, it is a message made up by the people. It is those messages written by the followers that tell us about their prophet and what he taught. And if there is a God in their beliefs, it is the people that tell us about that God and how he interacted with the people. For me, it's all way too easily made up.

But then what do we do with the Baha'i Faith? I disagree with too many of its teachings to believe it's true, so what is it? And if it is true, then it has the laws and moral rules that all the world is supposed to live by? Then, for me, the problem is... Who's going to enforce these supposed laws from God? A Diving Police Force?