Should the oneness of humanity be taught in all schools worldwide

[ppp]

We don’t add fuel to divisive issues. We are building a world civilisation as this one collapses. Putting a bandaid on it won’t help as it is cancerous with division and prejudices. A new world needs to be built upon universal human rights and the oneness of humanity and that’s what we’re doing.

Divisive issues are usually about helping people. Labor. Feminism. Marriage Equality. Gay rights. Trans gender rights. Abolition. Reproductive rights. Miscegenation.

Refraining from involvement in divisive issues is tantamount to refraining from helping the very people who need it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You do discriminate against gays, @loverofhumanity. The Baha'i position is that gays should not be afforded marriage quality. Shogi literally called being gay a "handicap" And you have personally taken umbrage at any energy or effort taken to support marriage equality. You simply try to craft sentences to hide that fact.

I find your beliefs to be less than ideal, @loverofhumanity . But I am willing to support your access to the protections and institutions of this society, assuming that you are willing to support equal access of rights (including marriage) for others who do the same. An unwillingness to provide such mutual tolerance and protection, excludes you from receiving those privileges.

"[Tolerance] is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact."

Incorrect. We do not discriminate against anyone. But we do not endorse homosexuality or same sex marriage two entirely different things. We don’t endorse holy war so should Muslims say we are prejudiced against them? No they have their belief and we ours. But we don’t interfere.however in our religion marriage is only permitted between a man and a woman.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, you'd teach that democracy and socialist and communist ways of governing are all wrong. Christians seek a Christian world. Muslims a Muslim world. But Baha'is only want what is best for humanity? Which is? Let me guess. What the Baha'i Faith teaches?

And don't say, "No, no." Most of us here already know that the Baha'i Faith believes it has all the answers to fix the world.

No. It’s up to the world to decide whether they take the best of each system or establish a new one. I would think part of a better system would be based upon universal human rights and recognition of the oneness of humanity above national interest. So in the new world humanity not national agendas first.

 

[CG Didymus]

We don’t add fuel to divisive issues. We are building a world civilisation as this one collapses. Putting a bandaid on it won’t help as it is cancerous with division and prejudices. A new world needs to be built upon universal human rights and the oneness of humanity and that’s what we’re doing.

I doubt very many Baha'is voted to legalize gay marriage. But what about integration of the schools? Pretty divisive issue in the U.S. Especially in the Southern States. Did Baha'is stay quiet? I'd imagine some Baha'is marched with Martin Luther King. Should they not have done so?

Baha'u'llah sent letters to several Kings and rulers. Did he tell them what a nice job they are doing and keep up the good work?

 

[F1fan]

It’s not a matter of convincing it’s a matter of reality.

Not a good thing to assert as religious believers. Reality doesn't include gods. This is another thing you you are trying to have both ways.

The thing is you are trying to represent ideas to people who agree that peace is a good thing, but who also disagree with your religious views. The difference is you won't let go your religious views to advance the peace initiative.

We have a united world community comprised of a cross section of the human race which gets along.

Religious tribes do. Some aren't prejudiced against gays.

Your world is daily descending into conflicts and war.

Same world as yours, pal. Try not to be hollier than thou when you are trying to sound virtuous.

Likely a third one. Go figure why you guys can’t get your act together but Baha’is can and have and what’s more we have been functioning under world governance something the thought of which terrifies you guys.

"You guys"? Like it's us who is leading Hamas personally. Nice. How to make friends and influence people.

So I wouldn't be gloating if I were you especially with all your wars breaking out. The oneness of humanity which is not the foundation of your order nor being taught shows that people are growing up despising one another’s race, religion or nationality. For you guys to have a peaceful world you need proper education that we are all equal fellow human beings but until then your wars will just get worse as prejudices control the world.

Quite a bit of superiority and hostility you're showing here. Where's your peaceful acceptance? Look how easy it is for you to be part of the problem.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But we all know that some people that believe in Baha'u'llah are not equal. They have been ex-communicated from the Baha'i Faith for breaking a covenant. There are some of us here that don't even believe in Baha'u'llah. But you're okay with that? You're going to treat us with love and respect but not them? Hmmm, okay thanks.

We are all imperfect as humans. So we try and look with a sin covering eye and not at peoples shortcomings because we have our own. But if a wolf was intent on destroying a flock of sheep not to stop it would be an injustice to the sheep. For the sheep’s protection the wolf would need to be kept away. In this case the person trying to destroy Baha’i unity and form a sect for himself is banned until he changes his ways because we don’t want the Baha’is breaking up into 40,000 sects like Christianity has. But it’s a temporary ban just like a ban on this forum. If a person changes they are welcomed back.

This has to do with the protection of the community. We cannot love the wolf thereby endangering the entire flock.

 

[CG Didymus]

No. It’s up to the world to decide whether they take the best of each system or establish a new one. I would think part of a better system would be based upon universal human rights and recognition of the oneness of humanity above national interest. So in the new world humanity not national agendas first.

And that's what Baha'is believe and teach. But why would you expect public schools to teach it? Even teaching all humanity is one is controversial... even in the U.S.

We've got a guy running for president that is getting a lot of support for demonizing certain groups of people and trying to get them out of the country and keep others like them from getting into the country. Ironically, the land was essentially stolen and taken over by European immigrants. I don't know what the immigration policies of the Native peoples were, but I doubt if the Europeans came legally.

So, what's the fair and just thing to do about that? Or should we just keep quiet... since it's so divisive.

 

[ppp]

Incorrect. We do not discriminate against anyone.

You oppose marriage equality. That is you saying that some portion of the population of adults should not be able to marry the person they wish based upon the arbitrary basis of your religious doctrine.

. We don’t endorse holy war so should Muslims say we are prejudiced against them?

First, if you are equating support of holy war with Muslims, then yes. Second, if your opposition was only to Muslim holy war, and not to anyone else, then hell yes, you are being discriminatory. You should be for holy war for everyone, or against holy war for everyone. You should be for marriage for everyone, or against marriage for everyone.

But we don’t interfere.however in our religion marriage is only permitted between a man and a woman.

Yep. Just like in some religions marriage if only permitted between a man and one of the same caste. Or of the same race.

Yes, we have a lot of experience with that BS.

 

[danieldemol]

This has to do with the protection of the community. We cannot love the wolf thereby endangering the entire flock.

Characterising so called covenant breakers as wolves is just dishonest polemic in my view.

They come from all walks of life just like Baha'i do. And just like some Baha'i are wolves but the majority are ordinary people i believe the same is true of so called covenant breakers.

 

[Trailblazer]

you are claiming that lack of endorsement is discriminatory which is patently false and you know it.

Of course that is patently false, but I don't think he knows that, since not all people think logically.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And that's what Baha'is believe and teach. But why would you expect public schools to teach it? Even teaching all humanity is one is controversial... even in the U.S.

We've got a guy running for president that is getting a lot of support for demonizing certain groups of people and trying to get them out of the country and keep others like them from getting into the country. Ironically, the land was essentially stolen and taken over by European immigrants. I don't know what the immigration policies of the Native peoples were, but I doubt if the Europeans came legally.

So, what's the fair and just thing to do about that? Or should we just keep quiet... since it's so divisive.

The original natives of many countries should have equal rights to everyone else is what I believe. White people have often oppressed and or invaded the natives and treated them very badly. One example is the stolen generations of aborigines in Australia. Injustices done need to be remedied as much as is possible.

Protection of Minorities

As conflicts within countries become increasingly prevalent throughout the world, the international community is awakening to the critical need to address the question of minorities. Because every country has minorities of some sort, governments are realizing that the potential for instability...

www.bic.org

 

[F1fan]

We are all imperfect as humans. So we try and look with a sin covering eye and not at peoples shortcomings because we have our own. But if a wolf was intent on destroying a flock of sheep not to stop it would be an injustice to the sheep. For the sheep’s protection the wolf would need to be kept away. In this case the person trying to destroy Baha’i unity and form a sect for himself is banned until he changes his ways because we don’t want the Baha’is breaking up into 40,000 sects like Christianity has. But it’s a temporary ban just like a ban on this forum. If a person changes they are welcomed back.

This has to do with the protection of the community. We cannot love the wolf thereby endangering the entire flock.

OK, what are the peaceful Baha'i going to do to the human wolves that isn't violent? Chat? You do realize that they are wolves, right, and they are natural predators of you sheep.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It’s like

OK, what are the peaceful Baha'i going to do to the human wolves that isn't violent? Chat? You do realize that they are wolves, right, and they are natural predators of you sheep.

It’s like any social group. Even on this forum there is order. One cannot do as one pleases. There are limits and boundaries. Continual breach of the rules will result in being banned hopefully teaching the person to act with civility. Then they are welcomed back in. If someone persistently causes lots and lots of trouble to others then they can be banned also until they agree to respect the rules.

 

[F1fan]

It’s like

It’s like any social group. Even on this forum there is order. One cannot do as one pleases.

Unless you join a religion that has rules that prejudice against groups they have a problem with, like gays. So you can hide behind ideology that is prejudiced and pretend it doesn't reflect your values. Your religious authority has no more validity than a Muslim extremist who walks into your place of work and detonates the bomb they are wearing. Both of you claim to follow God's will. Funny thing, no evidence that either of you are correct. That doesn't stop Baha'i from being prejudiced and being harmful.

There are limits and boundaries. Continual breach of the rules will result in being banned hopefully teaching the person to act with civility.

Oh yeah, banning someone for not wanting to be an anti-gay teaches tolerance, peace, and equality? That's civility?

Then they are welcomed back in. If someone persistently causes lots and lots of trouble to others then they can be banned also until they agree to respect the rules.

That'll work with those wolves (KKK, Hamas, Taliban, etc.).

So what hapvens if wolves attack Baha'i families? You just stand there are take it? Get beat up, mugged, shot and klilled, your only option is stand there and let it happen?

 

[CG Didymus]

We don’t add fuel to divisive issues. We are building a world civilisation as this one collapses. Putting a bandaid on it won’t help as it is cancerous with division and prejudices. A new world needs to be built upon universal human rights and the oneness of humanity and that’s what we’re doing.

Here's a Baha'i article...

Baha’is vote, get involved in community building and support their respective governments, but they don’t campaign for specific candidates, become members of political parties or involve themselves in the political wrangling so common to our current systems of governance.​

​

Simply, Baha’is don’t participate in partisan politics. The Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, Shoghi Effendi, gave two reasons why Baha’is take that position: promoting a political party means supporting its platform; and political involvement inevitably leads to disunity.​

​

But Baha'is believe their prophet is the promised return of everyone ever promised by any religion. That's causing division. Baha'is believe in God, in a type of evolution, the equality of men and women, equality of the races... Baha'is are against homosexuality. They are against drugs and alcohol. All those things are going to rub somebody the wrong way. You can't be the "great" unifier of all people for all things. Your beliefs will cause division. Might as well stand up for what you believe and promote it... Rather than trying to keep a low profile.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Unless you join a religion that has rules that prejudice against groups they have a problem with, like gays. So you can hide behind ideology that is prejudiced and pretend it doesn't reflect your values. Your religious authority has no more validity than a Muslim extremist who walks into your place of work and detonates the bomb they are wearing. Both of you claim to follow God's will. Funny thing, no evidence that either of you are correct. That doesn't stop Baha'i from being prejudiced and being harmful.

Oh yeah, banning someone for not wanting to be an anti-gay teaches tolerance, peace, and equality? That's civility?

That'll work with those wolves (KKK, Hamas, Taliban, etc.).

So what hapvens if wolves attack Baha'i families? You just stand there are take it? Get beat up, mugged, shot and klilled, your only option is stand there and let it happen?

I think you missed the point. Was speaking in another post about those who try and turn Baha’is against one another trying to form another Baha’i sect not gays. Gays are free to live their life and no Bahai interferes with them. But if they wish to have same sex marriage then they must find it elsewhere because we only provide marriage between a man and a woman.

We have our beliefs and do not force anyone to accept them and if they do not agree then they don’t become Baha’is. We all have freedom of belief and neither we nor others have the right to force their beliefs on each other.

 

[CG Didymus]

No. It’s up to the world to decide whether they take the best of each system or establish a new one. I would think part of a better system would be based upon universal human rights and recognition of the oneness of humanity above national interest. So in the new world humanity not national agendas first.

But, ultimately, the best decision would come from a group of men that know what God has recommended. Baha'is say that the people will get together to create a "lessor" peace, but the "most" great peace is when the people of the world turn to the teachings of the Baha'i Faith.

Abdu’l-Baha later explained that the Lesser Peace would be established over the course of time as the peoples of the world grow gradually more conscious that the world is our common homeland and that a system of international governance is indispensable for world stability. But He also made clear that political unity alone would not guarantee peace and prosperity in the long run. A higher level of unity must be achieved—one possible only through adherence to the spiritual verities taught by Baha’u’llah.​

​

Baha’u’llah envisioned a time in the future when the peoples of the world will live together in peace and unity as members of one faith. Universal justice will be established based on adherence to the law of God. A new civilization based on spiritual values will come into being. He referred to this as the Most Great Peace.​

 

[loverofhumanity]

Here's a Baha'i article...

Baha’is vote, get involved in community building and support their respective governments, but they don’t campaign for specific candidates, become members of political parties or involve themselves in the political wrangling so common to our current systems of governance.​

​

Simply, Baha’is don’t participate in partisan politics. The Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, Shoghi Effendi, gave two reasons why Baha’is take that position: promoting a political party means supporting its platform; and political involvement inevitably leads to disunity.​

​

But Baha'is believe their prophet is the promised return of everyone ever promised by any religion. That's causing division. Baha'is believe in God, in a type of evolution, the equality of men and women, equality of the races... Baha'is are against homosexuality. They are against drugs and alcohol. All those things are going to rub somebody the wrong way. You can't be the "great" unifier of all people for all things. Your beliefs will cause division. Might as well stand up for what you believe and promote it... Rather than trying to keep a low profile.

I disagree. It is the followers of each religion that have created the division and disunity by not accepting the subsequent Manifestation foretold in their own holy books. For example had Jews accepted Jesus as foretold in the Torah and Christians accepted Muhammad as prophesied in the Bible and Muslims accepted the Promised One of the Quran, then there would never have been any disunity. But because the followers turned to their religious leaders they were misled and were turned against one another even fought wars against each other.

Other religious scriptures do not accept homosexuality not only the Baha’i teachings but we do not oppose them and leave them to live how they wish. We are free as anyone to live the life of our choosing. We should not force each other to endorse each others beliefs. That is against the oneness of humanity which means we put no conditions upon accepting one another. We shouldn’t force our beliefs on one another. Forcing people all to accept a belief, in this case gay marriage is an abuse of the right of others who belief differently to freedom of conscience and belief which is a basic human right.

 

[CG Didymus]

We are all imperfect as humans. So we try and look with a sin covering eye and not at peoples shortcomings because we have our own. But if a wolf was intent on destroying a flock of sheep not to stop it would be an injustice to the sheep. For the sheep’s protection the wolf would need to be kept away. In this case the person trying to destroy Baha’i unity and form a sect for himself is banned until he changes his ways because we don’t want the Baha’is breaking up into 40,000 sects like Christianity has. But it’s a temporary ban just like a ban on this forum. If a person changes they are welcomed back.

This has to do with the protection of the community. We cannot love the wolf thereby endangering the entire flock.

Lots of "wolves" out there. And they are preying on a lot of "sheep". So, do Baha'is support Black Lives Matter? Do Baha'is actively try and stop those in positions of power, wolves, from abusing that power?

But then about the "covenant"... we're all coming in way after the fact. We don't know what really happened. It sounds very controversial. But again, it's the Baha'is not allowing freedom of thought and to believe as one wishes. Baha'is do demand obedience to those in power... to those they believe are the rightful leaders of the religion... Unity in conformity?

That's going to be a problem if the Baha'i Faith ever does get a majority of the population believing in it. A person believing in Jesus, but rejecting Baha'u'llah, is just as bad, or worse, then a person that has accepted Baha'u'llah but has rejected Abdul Baha or Shoghi Effendi or the UHJ. That Christian rejects all of them and will not conform and take part in the "unity" under, what Baha'is believe, to be God's laws.

 

[CG Didymus]

It is the followers of each religion that have created the division and disunity by not accepting the subsequent Manifestation foretold in their own holy books. For example had Jews accepted Jesus as foretold in the Torah

Was it foretold in the Torah? Like right now Christians are celebrating the birth of Jesus. Was it really foretold? Here's some of the things said in Isaiah 7.

6 “Let us invade Judah; let us tear it apart and divide it among ourselves, and make the son of Tabeel king over it.” 7 Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says:​

​

“‘It will not take place,
it will not happen...​

​

10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, 11 “Ask the Lord your God for a sign, whether in the deepest depths or in the highest heights.”​

​

12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask; I will not put the Lord to the test.”​

​

13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] (Or young woman) will conceive and give birth to a son, and[e] will call him Immanuel.[f] 15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. 17 The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.”​

​

Other than the one verse that translates the Hebrew word to mean "virgin", what else in this "sign" applies to Jesus? I don't think any of it does. Is it okay to snatch one verse out of context and make it a prophecy? Not for me.

Yes, Christianity became a great religion. But what made it great? Believing that people were hopeless sinners that could never pay the price for their sins. But a perfect unblemished lamb, the Lamb of God, could pay the price. Jesus become the perfect sacrifice.

Something that Christian believe was foretold in the Bible is the resurrection of Jesus. Do Baha'is believe that? No, Baha'is don't believe the physical resurrection of Jesus at all. But the early Christians did. And they also believed in Satan and hell. Then eventually that Jesus was God. The Law of Moses? Gone. Even the fourth Commandment about the Sabbath, gone. Although some Jews believed, why would all the Jews believe any of that? Baha'is don't even believe all of it.