Should Tipping be Banned?

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I don't think anyone who advocates doing away with tipping also thinks we should keep waitresses at $2 an hour.

I have a penis... The word is "server"...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I have a penis... The word is "server"...

It looks like you misspelled "vagina" and "waitress."

 

[DallasApple]

I have a penis... The word is "server"...

You can be my server any time.And I'm not even a man (or a lesbian) .

 

[DallasApple]

1)We'd get a lot less customers if food costs went up so that we could make a higher wage (even if that higher wage was the federal minimum), so there would be less tips, less shifts, and less money overall.
2)I would never wait tables for minimum wage. It would be too much work for too little reward. Again, I make more than a police officer does in my city by waiting tables. Even the terrible tips add up to making more money than I would in retail or other jobs that pay near minimum wage. The increased wage would have to be pretty high, which would in turn discourage customers from eating at the establishment (see #1)

Where I work, we don't tip out the kitchen staff; only the bartenders, bussers, and food runners (all of whom deserve a tip-out). The kitchen staff makes a decent hourly wage and doesn't deal with half of the problems the front-of-house staff does.

I think part of it is psychological.I'm going to FREAK out if I have to pay 20% more for the food items.But I don't see tipping as "over priced".Even if in the end it cost me around the same amount of money.

Now in thinking about it???No working for tips could help reduce server abuse.Like in the sense you are my personal slave and I can treat you however because I'm paying you .

Hmmm...Food for thought.

 

[BrokenHearted2]

I tip well for good service to waiters, delivery people, my barber, and sometimes even cooks... My Grandad always carried 2 Dollar bills in the 70's to tip at all the restaurants he went to. He and my Grandma ate breakfast out almost every weekday. They were treated like stars everywhere they went in the city where they lived. I've seen waitresses actually argue over who's turn it was to have my Grandparents that morning.
I've seen my Grandma tip bad waitresses well and ask them if they're having a bad night or if they were overwhelmed. My humble grandparents were from Kentucky and had a way with "blue collar folks". Grandpa did it because "People always remember you when you treat them better than they would expect."

My current Barber knows me by name and our conversations often pick up where they left off at the last haircut. The waitresses at my favorite three restaurants start making my ice tea the minute I hit the door. I make it a point to know my Pizza Delivery guys by name at both pizza places in town. I was a pizza delivery guy for a while and understand what tips mean to folks.

Bottom line is kind generosity is a good and happy seed to sow. It brings the sower the the fruit of kindness. I don't believe in mandatory tips however because then it's not a tip, it's a fee.

 

[dust1n]

OK, lets do things your way. Where will these extra wages come from? If I was running a food establishment and wanted to stay open, my wage costs must be within a certain percentage.

If I paid my help more, I would have to charge more for the food. That would increase my "to go" orders prices. People who just want food should not pay as much as someone who spends an hour being waited on hand and foot.

Another issue is, if my help did not have to bust their chops for tips, my service would decline as there would be no incentive for on and beyond service any more.

To bottom line things, the way you want things to work, we would all pay more for less.

Well thank goodness you are taken care of in this set up. I don't know what I was thinking being concerned with the livelihood of people who work in these positions.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

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Now in thinking about it???No working for tips could help reduce server abuse.Like in the sense you are my personal slave and I can treat you however because I'm paying you .

Hmmm...Food for thought.

It could, but probably wouldn't. From my experience, a lot of people go to restaurants because they want the power of ordering someone around for an hour. This is especially applicable to the people that don't tip; they always seem to have the most requests.

 

[Volodya]

OK, lets do things your way. Where will these extra wages come from? If I was running a food establishment and wanted to stay open, my wage costs must be within a certain percentage.

Cut profits or charge more for meals.

If I paid my help more, I would have to charge more for the food. That would increase my "to go" orders prices. People who just want food should not pay as much as someone who spends an hour being waited on hand and foot.

So what, let them cook their own food then.

Another issue is, if my help did not have to bust their chops for tips, my service would decline as there would be no incentive for on and beyond service any more.

So what, that's the same as any other job - do you tip in Wall Mart? No, I thought not.

 

[Volodya]

ISo yes, in the current system, we are morally obligated to tip, otherwise you are essentially stealing someone's labor.

Utter BS!

It's the employer who is stealing the labor here.

Why the F should the CUSTOMER be responsible for the wages?

Tipping is one of the most obtuse and archaic, conservative systems out there.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So what, that's the same as any other job - do you tip in Wall Mart? No, I thought not.

I'm glad you brought this up. Folks in Walnart are NOT customer oriented. In other words, they suck. I don't feel special when I shop there and while I don't tip them, they don't work for 2.10 an hour either.

You just made my point, I tip well to get better treatment the next time I come into the establishment. If my servers where paid like Walmart employees, I would be served in the substandard way I am treated while shopping there.

These people can't even get out of your way when you need something off the shelf. Your lucky to get your shopping cart down the isle while they are stocking. They look at customers like we are in their way.

 

[Volodya]

Even so, that does not mean YOU should be paying the wages of the wait staff, because that is the responsibility of the employer.

If he can't make his staff work well, then that's his problem.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Even so, that does not mean YOU should be paying the wages of the wait staff, because that is the responsibility of the employer.

What a steaming pile of dung. The server is working for ME. I am tipping them more than their employer is paying them and they should be doing what I need them to do to make my experience enjoyable.

If he can't make his staff work well, then that's his problem.

No, you are wrong. The manager does not know how well I am being treated, nor can he withhold any wages like the customer can.

 

[Volodya]

He is not working for you at all, you are just being made to feel like that so the company can make more profit , at your expense!

You are ripping yourself off, willingly - that's rather absurd.

Now, I would like you to subsidise my own employees as I fancy buying a new motorbike - are you willing?

 

[HonestJoe]

1)We'd get a lot less customers if food costs went up so that we could make a higher wage (even if that higher wage was the federal minimum), so there would be less tips, less shifts, and less money overall.

Customers would be paying the same amount of money. It's just be a $120 bill rather than a $100 bill plus a 20% tip/service charge. There is obviously a psychological aspect to that but it could be managed with a careful transition. I suspect the vast majority of people wouldn't even notice after the hype dies down - prices go up and down all the time and we're generally oblivious to it.

2)I would never wait tables for minimum wage. It would be too much work for too little reward.

Who said anything about minimum wage? As with the customers, the wait staff should take home a similar amount of money to what they do now, just less variable and with more consistent taxation (which would only disadvantage those currently defrauding the system). Some wait staff could even be better off since employers would be prevented from taking all the tips and only topping up staff's pay to the minimum wage.

Where I work, we don't tip out the kitchen staff; only the bartenders, bussers, and food runners (all of whom deserve a tip-out). The kitchen staff makes a decent hourly wage and doesn't deal with half of the problems the front-of-house staff does.

If those staff deserve that money, why should it be the wait staffs' responsibility to pay it (regardless of how well they're tipped)? Why shouldn't employers pay all their staff a decent hourly wage? You're basically arguing for employers to screw over some of their staff and expect their colleagues to sort it out. That would probably be illegal in any other field of work.

 

[Reverend Rick]

He is not working for you at all, you are just being made to feel like that so the company can make more profit , at your expense!

You are ripping yourself off, willingly - that's rather absurd.

LOL, the company is making exactly what the business model is set up for them to make. They cannot pay more wages without raising their prices which would still cost me money.

I guess you believe the company should take the loss and make less profit? Things don't work that way in business. If I own a business, I'm going to make a certain percentage and my wages are going to be another certain percentage.

I gladly tip for good service, I'm not getting ripped off. I freely do this and would rather pay an employee direct than depend on their employer doing the right thing by them.

They would most likely pay ALL the help a higher wage when only some of the employees deserve it.

If you think paying hard workers less and sorry workers more, your the one who is absurd.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think anyone who advocates doing away with tipping also thinks we should keep waitresses at $2 an hour.

So yes, in the current system, we are morally obligated to tip, otherwise you are essentially stealing someone's labor. But no, tipping is not inherently "what decent people do" nor is it something you must do if you expect to be provided a service, as Dallas indicated. It is simply the way our culture has decided to pay people in specific industries-- a method which could be changed.

I think it has a lot to do with social hierarchy. We tip for jobs that were traditionally "lower class". Medical professionals aren't "lower class", so they don't get tips.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What a steaming pile of dung. The server is working for ME. I am tipping them more than their employer is paying them and they should be doing what I need them to do to make my experience enjoyable.

The server is the employee of the tipping customer? Does this create any obligations on the part of the customer?

No, you are wrong. The manager does not know how well I am being treated, nor can he withhold any wages like the customer can.

Is food service the only industry where managers are clueless about the performance of their employees?

Managers can withhold bonuses; they can't withhold base pay. Why isn't that enough for you?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I think it has a lot to do with social hierarchy. We tip for jobs that were traditionally "lower class". Medical professionals aren't "lower class", so they don't get tips.

Some servers in upscale establishments in the big cities make more money than medical professionals do.

If I am purchasing a 300 dollar bottle of wine and the server makes an excellent suggestion, that experience is priceless.
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[Reverend Rick]

Managers can withhold bonuses; they can't withhold base pay. Why isn't that enough for you?

Jeff the server is key to the survival of a business. If you have a bad experience, you will not return. Some stupid wannabe server could cost a business thousands a year in business. They need to be weeded out quickly.

Why is that not enough for me? Honestly a poor server should be able to be sued for running off good customers.

This is why great establishment only hire experienced servers. You must admit it would be hard to continue serving without making good tips.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some servers in upscale establishments in the big cities make more money than medical professionals do.

Sure, but:

- social class isn't just about how much you make.
- that server probably still makes less than his or her own customers.