Should Tipping be Banned?

[Reverend Rick]

Sure, but:

- social class isn't just about how much you make.
- that server probably still makes less than his or her own customers.

Yes, you make an excellent point. An English butler might make 200K a year. They have free room and board and live a nice life. The thing is, while they work for millionaires, they themselves might just save and invest and be a millionaire themselves in retirement.

This is the same for upscale servers who might start their own business some day. :yes:

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Waiter/Waitress 2013 Total Pay (?)
$6,205 - $32,432
MEDIAN: $16,870

Source.

So we do see a high end of servers making roughly $2,700 a month. That's the high-end, according to this data.

From the U.S. Department of Labor - 2010 Median Pay $18,130 per year
$8.72 per hour

I find at least my personal experience to reflect this data more than some of the stories of how either they or someone they know to be rolling in the dough with money.

For more data according to the Department of Labor - Waiters and Waitresses

 

[Reverend Rick]

Source.

So we do see a high end of servers making roughly $2,700 a month. That's the high-end, according to this data.

From the U.S. Department of Labor - 2010 Median Pay $18,130 per year
$8.72 per hour

I find at least my personal experience to reflect this data more than some of the stories of how either they or someone they know to be rolling in the dough with money.

For more data according to the Department of Labor - Waiters and Waitresses

Heather, I think you might be ignoring the freedom dollars that where earned and not taxed.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Heather, I think you might be ignoring the freedom dollars that where earned and not taxed.

Under the table, I presume?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Jeff the server is key to the survival of a business. If you have a bad experience, you will not return. Some stupid wannabe server could cost a business thousands a year in business. They neeeeded out quickly.

But here's the thing: the quality of a customer's experience can be affected by the whole staff and even the other customers. The server has no control over the quality of the food or how many servers the manager will assign to a shift. I'm fine with tying an employee's pay to their performance (within reason), but we have to be sure that it's being tied to THEIR performance. If the reason customers are having bad experiences is because the manager won't bring in enough servers for the number of tables, then it's not within the power of the individual server to fix the problem that he or she is getting penalized for.

Why is that not enough for me? Honestly a poor server should be able to be sued for running off good customers.

Should a poor customer who tips based on the size of his waitress' breasts be able to sued by his waitress? I've asked you several times about obligations to the employee and so far, you've ignored my questions every time.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, you make an excellent point. An English butler might make 200K a year. They have free room and board and live a nice life. The thing is, while they work for millionaires, they themselves might just save and invest and be a millionaire themselves in retirement.

This is the same for upscale servers who might start their own business some day. :yes:

The butler is the head of a household staff. While the job includes an element of serving, he's more of a manager of servants than a servant himself.

The type of butler who makes $200,000 a year would be managing a substantial staff. Effectively, he would be running a small landscaping company, catering company, and cleaning company. The job is closer to manager of a country club than to restaurant server.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Heather, I think you might be ignoring the freedom dollars that where earned and not taxed.

A few years ago, the Canadian Revenue Agency decided to target servers and bartenders for extra scrutiny because of the "freedom dollars" they were receiving. Lots of them were audited and lots of them had to pay penalties. I would bet you good money that the IRS will do something similar eventually if it hasn't already.

Yet one more risk borne by tipped employees that isn't reflected in what they make.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It's also not the norm. Unless I had been WAY out of the loop in my decade or so in the restaurant industry.

I only remember one bartender who mentioned anything about under the table tips. Well, they weren't actually "tips". Instead she was propositioned by guys wanting to buy her a drink. She'd charge them for a shot of vodka, pour herself a shot of water, drink it in front of them (with a little acting on her part), and then pocket the money.

She also never drove a nice car. And like the rest of us, she struggled to get by however she could. AND, she was a former model. So looks weren't hurting her at all.

 

[Falvlun]

It's also not the norm. Unless I had been WAY out of the loop in my decade or so in the restaurant industry.

I only remember one bartender who mentioned anything about under the table tips. Well, they weren't actually "tips". Instead she was propositioned by guys wanting to buy her a drink. She'd charge them for a shot of vodka, pour herself a shot of water, drink it in front of them (with a little acting on her part), and then pocket the money.

She also never drove a nice car. And like the rest of us, she struggled to get by however she could. AND, she was a former model. So looks weren't hurting her at all.

Basically, from my experience, if you got tipped in cash, you didn't report it. But if it was tied to a credit card, then you did because then there was a paper trail.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Basically, from my experience, if you got tipped in cash, you didn't report it. But if it was tied to a credit card, then you did because then there was a paper trail.

There's pros and cons to those. Not reporting obviously leaves the IRS out of the picture. But it also binds the ownership of the establishment as to how they report their employees earnings.

I worked at a diner where reporting was "encouraged" but not mandatory. All the other establishments I worked at, we reported our tips to management, and for the purpose of ensuring proper tip-outs were given to bussers and bartenders. At least 3 of the restaurants I worked at even required signatures at the end of every shift with our name and soc security # for acknowledgement that management and staff were all on the same page for compensation and tax reporting purposes.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Basically, from my experience, if you got tipped in cash, you didn't report it. But if it was tied to a credit card, then you did because then there was a paper trail.

Yup... Damn credit cards...

 

[Springs1]

Another thing people fail to understand. If I had a nickel for every time I got reamed by a customer because the line cooks screwed up their order.

What kind of things do you consider not the server's fault? I would like to see what you have to say?

And there's always the people that insisted on sitting in an empty section near yours, you're swamped, and nobody told you you're supposed to take the table. By the time you get there they've been sitting for 5-10 minutes with nothing and the interaction is horrible before it even begins.

No one should have to tell you. You should be LOOKING AROUND to see what is happening and work as a *TEAM* meaning that it doesn't matter if they told you or not, because you should act like they DID and go ask the hostess about it before greeting them.

It's infuriating, and probably the reason I smoke cigarettes

Do you smoke during times when customers may need you?

 

[Springs1]

I waited tables for years when I danced professionally.
I think when people think of poor service, many times it's out of the servers control.

If you have waited tables many years, you should know that most issues ARE in the server's control. Why LIE like that, huh?

 

[Springs1]

I also take into account not EVERYTHING is the servers fault if something goes wrong.

But most things ARE though in general.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If you have waited tables many years, you should know that most issues ARE in the server's control. Why LIE like that, huh?

Well howdy to you too, and welcome to RF! :foryou:

Want to try again without the confrontational tone? There is no lying on my part.

 

[dawny0826]

My mother tipped her waitress $20.00 yesterday on a $40-$50 bill.

Why? She was excellent. When my Mom give her the tip, she thanked her for providing excellent service and told her that she was the best waitress that she'd ever had.

 

[Springs1]

Well howdy to you too, and welcome to RF! :foryou:

Want to try again without the confrontational tone? There is no lying on my part.

Actually there is. Most issues you can see WITHOUT TOUCHING the food to notice the mistakes. Then there's overcharges, any kind of overcharges the server can notice BEFORE handing you your check.

We have had forgotten refills, forgotten food orders(such as a side dish or condiments for example), wrong orders, put in orders wrong into the computer, forgotten to put into the computer orders, forgotten drinks from the bar, forgotten silverware, forgotten small request like a bag or a box, etc.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Actually there is. Most issues you can see WITHOUT TOUCHING the food to notice the mistakes. Then there's overcharges, any kind of overcharges the server can notice BEFORE handing you your check.

We have had forgotten refills, forgotten food orders(such as a side dish or condiments for example), wrong orders, put in orders wrong into the computer, forgotten to put into the computer orders, forgotten drinks from the bar, forgotten silverware, forgotten small request like a bag or a box, etc.

Sounds like the perspective of a customer. Not a server. And a rather rude customer's sense of entitlement, it sounds like. "Forgotten"-this and "forgotten" that....accusing me of lying...making accusations to another member as your first posts....and you're a new member at RF, at that.

I've been a customer at restaurants, too. The vast majority of the time, our experience has been satisfactory. We pay so that we could sit down for a nice meal that we didn't have to fix ourselves and others could pick up after us. We don't punish people who don't make us feel like we're royalty.

Have you worked in service before?

 

[dust1n]

1)We'd get a lot less customers if food costs went up so that we could make a higher wage (even if that higher wage was the federal minimum), so there would be less tips, less shifts, and less money overall.
2)I would never wait tables for minimum wage. It would be too much work for too little reward. Again, I make more than a police officer does in my city by waiting tables. Even the terrible tips add up to making more money than I would in retail or other jobs that pay near minimum wage. The increased wage would have to be pretty high, which would in turn discourage customers from eating at the establishment (see #1)

Where I work, we don't tip out the kitchen staff; only the bartenders, bussers, and food runners (all of whom deserve a tip-out). The kitchen staff makes a decent hourly wage and doesn't deal with half of the problems the front-of-house staff does.

Source? Evidence?

 

[dust1n]

I think part of it is psychological.I'm going to FREAK out if I have to pay 20% more for the food items.But I don't see tipping as "over priced".Even if in the end it cost me around the same amount of money.

Now in thinking about it???No working for tips could help reduce server abuse.Like in the sense you are my personal slave and I can treat you however because I'm paying you .

Hmmm...Food for thought.

That's called great service for the luxuriously entitled.