Sin=natural

[waitasec]

I'm saying 'most' people 'sin'<<> get angry, jealous, lust, etc....

i would generalize it more; everyone fails themselves and others at one point or another. but thats life.

"we're only human of flesh and blood we're made, we're only human, born to make mistakes"...

however, if this mantra i used is an excuse then learning from our mistakes isn't the goal, it's an excuse.

 

[Beta]

if you think about how a parent encourages their child to do better, they don't sit there and say, "no matter how hard you try, you still suck".

And you think God is not telling man HOW he can do better ??? God has told us for 6ooo years how to improve but most - like yourself - are not listening. :no:

 

[PolyHedral]

Then God is not communicating effectively.

 

[waitasec]

And you think God is not telling man HOW he can do better ??? God has told us for 6ooo years how to improve but most - like yourself - are not listening. :no:

a sense of morality has been around way before abraham...

 

[waitasec]

And you think God is not telling man HOW he can do better ??? God has told us for 6ooo years how to improve but most - like yourself - are not listening. :no:

the god of the OT destroyed the earth because of mans evilness but then vowed not to destroy it again because of his evilness...
even jesus says that evil comes out of the heart of man. never does jesus say we have the potential for both good and evil but just for evil, see what i mean?

 

[waitasec]

And you think God is not telling man HOW he can do better ??? God has told us for 6ooo years how to improve but most - like yourself - are not listening. :no:

you are missing my point...it's not that god isn't telling us HOW we can be better it's that we are innately evil in gods eyes...we, who we are, still suck.

 

[Beta]

the god of the OT destroyed the earth because of mans evilness but then vowed not to destroy it again because of his evilness...
even jesus says that evil comes out of the heart of man. never does jesus say we have the potential for both good and evil but just for evil, see what i mean?

Oh the potential for good is there if only man would learn to obey.
God told Adam and Eve to obey-they did not
In the OT God told man to obey-they did not
in the NT God sent us an example and we have oportunity to follow-but do not .Lk.46
Do YOU ? instead of complaining ? Heb.5v8,9.
Man is not as smart as he thinks yet reckons he is good.

 

[waitasec]

but most - like yourself - are not listening. :no:

and finally...
isn't that being presumptuous because you don't know me, do you? why the personal jabs?
i didn't judge your morality. you judged me.
it seems as though you believe you are morally superior by making that statement.

 

[waitasec]

Oh the potential for good is there if only man would learn to obey.
God told Adam and Eve to obey-they did not
In the OT God told man to obey-they did not
in the NT God sent us an example and we have oportunity to follow-but do not .Lk.46
Do YOU ? instead of complaining ? Heb.5v8,9.
Man is not as smart as he thinks yet reckons he is good.

but they hadn't the slightest idea that disobedience was evil yet. so how can god hold them accountable for something they were not privy to?

 

[Vansdad]

James 4:17 (Today&#8217;s New International Version, ©2005)

17 So then, if you know the good you ought to do and don&#8217;t do it, you sin.

 

[waitasec]

James 4:17 (Today&#8217;s New International Version, ©2005)

17 So then, if you know the good you ought to do and don&#8217;t do it, you sin.

genesis 8:21
Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood.

 

[waitasec]

James 4:17 (Today&#8217;s New International Version, ©2005)

17 So then, if you know the good you ought to do and don&#8217;t do it, you sin.

btw, children are good.
they are not innately evil only. they have the potential for both.
sure they are selfish but they are also giving and forgiving
they are not inclined to prejudice that is a learned behavior.
so genesis 8 and james 4 are contradictory, isn't it?

 

[Beta]

you are missing my point...it's not that god isn't telling us HOW we can be better it's that we are innately evil in gods eyes...we, who we are, still suck.

If man did as he was told he would no longer...suck.
We are similar to an unwashed person who refuses to wash. Whose fault would that be ....God's ???

 

[waitasec]

If man did as he was told he would no longer...suck.
We are similar to an unwashed person who refuses to wash. Whose fault would that be ....God's ???

if you believe you suck, without faith in god, and if celestial dictatorship is what you ascribe to, that's your choice.
however, just don't think your religious beliefs trump my inalienable rights

 

[waitasec]

We are similar to an unwashed person who refuses to wash. Whose fault would that be ....God's ???

you're assuming people don't want to better themselves and lack a sense of integrity and self dignity... those attributes, btw, do not suck....it's how progress is achieved.

 

[Beta]

genesis 8:21
Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood.

Mankind were cut off from God when they sinned Gen.3 and being cut off we show early inclination to do evil. God is here giving us to see that without him we are basically no good. But that does not mean we can never become good. Of course we can but evil has to be recognised for the danger it is and learnt to be conquered. God can't just wipe it off the slate once it is in evidence in us. We must learn to deal with it and that takes a lifetime.:sad4:

 

[waitasec]

Mankind were cut off from God when they sinned Gen.3 and being cut off we show early inclination to do evil. God is here giving us to see that without him we are basically no good. But that does not mean we can never become good. Of course we can but evil has to be recognised for the danger it is and learnt to be conquered. God can't just wipe it off the slate once it is in evidence in us. We must learn to deal with it and that takes a lifetime.:sad4:

but every inclination means what to you?

 

[Beta]

if you believe you suck, without faith in god, and if celestial dictatorship is what you ascribe to, that's your choice.
however, just don't think your religious beliefs trump my inalienable rights

No they don't. You have every right to believe what you want and I am not here to put you to rights.
I just thought we were having a discussion in which we air our views, is all !

 

[Beta]

you're assuming people don't want to better themselves and lack a sense of integrity and self dignity... those attributes, btw, do not suck....it's how progress is achieved.

friend ...we were talking from a religious view not from a material,physical,earthly, human perspective in which you can also have high hopes of achievements...they just won't get you eternal life in the end. But hey...maybe you are not aiming for that. It's just you being on a religious forum let me think you were :sorry1:

 

[waitasec]

No they don't. You have every right to believe what you want and I am not here to put you to rights.
I just thought we were having a discussion in which we air our views, is all !

but some believe their superior morality trumps rights. that's why i am here, to challenge that notion.