Slavery (Women) and Islam

[Pegg]

Well Pegg, having sex with slaves without marrying them is not considered a sin in our religion. This right is reserved for the males only just like polygamy.

so why are there 'adultery' or 'fornication' laws at all then?

 

[FearGod]

Tsk, tsk, tsk. I am surprised how some members here are playing mental gymnastics. Islam allowed slaves this right, that right, etc. But you can have sex with your slaves without marrying her. In addition, how can anyone possibly believe that a woman will be ready to have sex with men who had killed all her male family members and captured her female ones? I wouldn't do that even if I were married to my so-called master. And why should slavery exist in the first place? Can't they be given freedom. Here 'they' means all not some who were freed for one's own gains or desires. Are we women so weak that we need to remain slaves to someone for our welfare? Those who support slavery will you send your children (male or female) to be slaves of others, for their 'welfare', after you and your spouse die? And there is a huge difference between slaves and servants. Slaves don't get paid for their work but servants do. And there is also difference between a slave concubine and a prostitute. The latter also gets paid.

Do i have to pay for my girlfriend if i want to **** her, of course we aren't talking about raping but about sex.

Why calling yourself as a Muslim while refusing its ethics.

Why not changing your religion title to none and then you can choose what fits you with belief o matic Belief-O-Matic - Beliefnet.com

 

[Draupadi]

Please read my introductory post 'Hello everyone'. If I condemn particular beliefs of my faith doesn't make me bad. I follow my own rules. Your harsh words won't affect me. And I am not the only one here who shops for his/her religion. People used to undermine the women in the past and eat meat. Will you stop eating meat if you start treating women well? And I believe in my religion for it's God and some parts of its scriptures. Who are you to ask me what to do or not to do?

And by the way slaves are not girlfriends. Islamic scriptures never said that you have to have their consent. Strange when it comes to men and his female slaves the definition of adultery and fornication suddenly changes for this particular context.

 

[Draupadi]

so why are there 'adultery' or 'fornication' laws at all then?

Those laws are only for women. Islam was tool for obtaining power custom made for the men. And Muhammad knows best.

 

[FearGod]

Please read my introductory post 'Hello everyone'. If I condemn particular beliefs of my faith doesn't make me bad. I follow my own rules. Your harsh words won't affect me. And I am not the only one here who shops for his/her religion.

I didn't say that you are bad, but i wonder why you follow a religion that you don't agree with.

 

[viole]

Well Pegg, having sex with slaves without marrying them is not considered a sin in our religion. This right is reserved for the males only just like polygamy.

Oh, how practical.

Doesn't that make you suspicious that your religion has been made up by humans of a certain gender?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Sabour]

so why are there 'adultery' or 'fornication' laws at all then?

What are you hinting at here?

 

[Pegg]

Those laws are only for women. Islam was tool for obtaining power custom made for the men. And Muhammad knows best.

Ah, right.


Do you think God would allow his sons to commit such fornication and adultery, but then condemn to death his daughters with whom those sons committed fornication/adultery with?

does that sound like something a loving and merciful God would approve of?

 

[Pegg]

What are you hinting at here?

What im hinting at is the 'injustice' and 'imbalance' in these laws.

Think about it this way.

It is ok for a man to commit fornication/adultery with a woman. But the woman must be put to death for such fornication.

Could this possibly be acceptable to God?

 

[Union]

isnt that called 'adultery' if the man is already married?

Doesnt God condemn adulterers and fornicators??


How could God condone and condemn it at the same time?? He would have to have a split personality....or whoever wrote it were not speaking from God at all but were speaking from their own sinful thoughts.

100% agreeing with you .

 

[Union]

Well Pegg, having sex with slaves without marrying them is not considered a sin in our religion. This right is reserved for the males only just like polygamy.

Then I guess your religion is not Islam . In Qur'an it is said that you have to marry 'what your right hand possesses' (ref. to slaves , captives etc.) to have sex with them .

Well , you may validate your statement from Hadith , I know there are few AHadith where Prophet Muhammad allowed his companions to rape the women captives but as I always trying to establish Islam in Qur'an is ordained by Almighty GOD while Hadith in Islam was created by male Imams who are in fact the enemies of Islam .

 

[Draupadi]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:24 (Y. Ali) Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]23:5 (Y. Ali) Who abstain from sex,
[FONT=Verdana,Arial] [/FONT][/FONT]
Illa AAala azwajihim aw ma malakat aymanuhum fainnahum ghayru maloomeena [FONT=Verdana,Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]23:6 (Y. Ali) Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame, [/FONT]

 

[Draupadi]

From IslamiCity.com - Islam & The Global Muslim eCommunity

 

[Draupadi]

Whether I accept slaver concubinage or not is none of your business. Can't you Muslims let others live free?

 

[FearGod]

Whether I accept slaver concubinage or not is none of your business. Can't you Muslims let others live free?

, you are also a Muslim.

 

[Union]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]4:24 (Y. Ali) Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]23:5 (Y. Ali) Who abstain from sex,
[FONT=Verdana,Arial] [/FONT][/FONT]
Illa AAala azwajihim aw ma malakat aymanuhum fainnahum ghayru maloomeena [FONT=Verdana,Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]23:6 (Y. Ali) Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame, [/FONT]

Hi Draupadi . The context of the verse you posted is marriage/wedlock not sex . Please read the verse in context :

[004:022] And marry not women whom your fathers married,- except what is past: It was shameful and odious,- an abominable custom indeed.


[004:023] Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful;-


[004:024] Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and God is All-knowing, All-wise.


[004:025] If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And God hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practice self-restraint. And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Any topic related with ma malakt aiminukum should be taken as proposed above . Therefore if verse 23.5 is talking about sex with them , it should be performed only after marrying them , not before .

 

[Union]

Whether I accept slaver concubinage or not is none of your business. Can't you Muslims let others live free?

Yes dear , you are allowed to believe anything you want but please don't give it a name to Islam because the laws of Islam decided by Almighty ALLAH , not by you and me .

 

[Union]

From IslamiCity.com - Islam & The Global Muslim eCommunity

I don't really dance to the tune of Mawlanas and Musftis , hence those websites may not that much appealing to me

 

[Draupadi]

Thanks for your information Union. I never saw the things in this way. It is actually gives a HUGE relief that the God I love doesn't allow slave concubinage. By the way the verses were translations of the Quran from the site, not fatwas from some muftis.

But one of the verses you have given mentions that if a man is not rich enough to look after a woman from a good family, as a husband, he can marry a slave. Does that mean that if you don't have the capacity to feed your wife/wives you can marry a slave girl and keep her in mean conditions? It's just a humble query.

 

[Draupadi]

, you are also a Muslim.

Does that mean I have to accept inhumanities and not let others live freely? Maybe by not accepting all the laws of the Quran I am not being a good Muslim like you; but humanity has more priority for me than religion and it's OK if you are opposite.