Slavery (Women) and Islam

[FearGod]

Does that mean I have to accept inhumanities and not let others live freely? Maybe by not accepting all the laws of the Quran I am not being a good Muslim like you; but humanity has more priority for me than religion and it's OK if you are opposite.

No one is perfect, but if in a case i am in doubt of my belief then i won't be proud of calling myself as a Muslim, it is like one calling himself an atheist and defend Islam, that is how you look like, i advice you to be free from all religions (none) till you can find what you want to be,good luck

 

[Draupadi]

I believe that there is a God but I find all religions imperfect. I am sticking with Islam because reading the Quran gives me peace. I have told in my introductory post that IMHO all religions lead to God and the Islamic path is the one I feel appealing and comfortable. Still I am in the hunt of a humanist and logical religion, but I don't have much high hopes .

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I would suspect Allah is ok with slavery because he was ok with it in the OT.

 

[Union]

Thanks for your information Union. I never saw the things in this way. It is actually gives a HUGE relief that the God I love doesn't allow slave concubinage. By the way the verses were translations of the Quran from the site, not fatwas from some muftis.

But one of the verses you have given mentions that if a man is not rich enough to look after a woman from a good family, as a husband, he can marry a slave. Does that mean that if you don't have the capacity to feed your wife/wives you can marry a slave girl and keep her in mean conditions? It's just a humble query.

One thing for sure the GOD you love will never let you down . My prayer and well-wish for you . Humanity is the first preference to Almighty GOD not the rituals .

The verse 4.25 is hinting that when an un-married man seeking for marriage and if he is not rich enough to provide dowry demanded by the free women , he may can marry ma malakat aimanakum (mma henceforth ) as the dowry for them shouldn't be as high as the free women .

This verse is not talking about a second marriage or the third but a new one .

 

[Union]

I would suspect Allah is ok with slavery because he was ok with it in the OT.

Well I don't want to comment about OT here as this out of the scope of this thread but ALLAH (swt) didn't condone nor support slavery in Qur'an . Rather we have verses in Qur'an where ALLAH (swt) encouraged to support and to give freedom to the slaves :

[002:177] It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and a dversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing.

[004:092] Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to God: for God hath all knowledge and all wisdom.

[005:089] God will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth God make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful.

[058:003] But those who divorce their wives by Zihar, then wish to go back on the words they uttered,- (It is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other: Thus are ye admonished to perform: and God is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do.

In fact the following verse straight-away commanded that if the slaves ask for deed for freedom from their masters , they should be given the freedom and also to provide them wealth so that they can seek establishment in the society :

[024:033] Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),

 

[gnostic]

Having sex with slaves, are and were nothing than act of rapes.

Do slaves have any choice with regard in consenting to sex?

The verse (Quran 33:52) just happened to show that there is a loophole to rape is a sin or crime, and give Muslims an excuse that rape is acceptable, if the woman is slave.

The Quran and the Hadith only showed the hypocrisy of their religion, of their prophet, and ultimately, of their god.

 

[gnostic]

The emancipation of slaves was one of the goals achieved by Islam...
This was achieved by many laws that resulted in the end of slavery..

Islam didn't stop slavery.

Muhammad didn't even stop slavery in his time. And if you recall what happen with the fall of Banu Qurayza's stronghold after they surrendered to Muhammad's army, Muhammad didn't stop his men from selling women and children into slavery, or keeping them for themselves as slaves.

Why did Muhammad allow this to happen?

For revenge because the Qurayza would accept him as prophet?
Was for money, because money is needed to feed the increasingly larger army?

When Muslim army invaded Central Asia and India, the reigning caliphate didn't simply take one woman for wife but whole harem of girls and young women. Did these girls or women have choice?

Even today, women are seen as properties, just as slaves were properties, even when they are not called slaves anymore. It is not protecting the women, but exploiting them.

 

[FearGod]

Having sex with slaves, are and were nothing than act of rapes.

Do slaves have any choice with regard in consenting to sex?

The verse (Quran 33:52) just happened to show that there is a loophole to rape is a sin or crime, and give Muslims an excuse that rape is acceptable, if the woman is slave.

The Quran and the Hadith only showed the hypocrisy of their religion, of their prophet, and ultimately, of their god.

Where did it say that you can have sex with your maids by force ?
That is a wishful thinking.

 

[FearGod]

Islam didn't stop slavery.

Women are forced to work as prostitutes all over the world except in the Islamic countries as punishment to pimps is so harsh

Muhammad didn't even stop slavery in his time. And if you recall what happen with the fall of Banu Qurayza's stronghold after they surrendered to Muhammad's army, Muhammad didn't stop his men from selling women and children into slavery, or keeping them for themselves as slaves.

Why did Muhammad allow this to happen?

The prophet didn't issue the laws from his own mind but it is what God ordered him to do.

Slavery did always exist and can never be stopped until our recent days.

The soldier in our recent days is a slave, if refuse to fight then he'll be punished for that.

For revenge because the Qurayza would accept him as prophet?
Was for money, because money is needed to feed the increasingly larger army?

The prophet motivate freeing the slaves and he did free some,such as the black slave bilal bin rabah,the slaves were taught as to how to resist the oppressors.

[youtube]gYvVouKtJVM[/youtube]
Kisah Bilal bin Rabah Yang Muslim Harus Nonton! - YouTube

[youtube]UWK9UI5vNao[/youtube]
The story of Bilal bin Rabah, first man who call to Prayers in Islam (Azan)992 - YouTube

[youtube]yfa5EP4D0eo[/youtube]
Muhammad Ali i converted to islam and i am not slave anymore - YouTube

When Muslim army invaded Central Asia and India, the reigning caliphate didn't simply take one woman for wife but whole harem of girls and young women. Did these girls or women have choice?

What is the name of that caliphate ?

Even today, women are seen as properties, just as slaves were properties, even when they are not called slaves anymore. It is not protecting the women, but exploiting them.

Islam protects women from selling their bodies to men,The prophet before death asked muslims to be kind with women among other things.

[youtube]_11pBl2ippc[/youtube]
Final Sermon of Prophet Muhammad

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The Sharia of Islam for instance, forbids drinking wine, or stealing, adultery, and ordains punishments for these acts. But in case of having slaves, it does not forbid it. No!. It does not say "It is forbidden to have slaves".... There are verses though that Quran encourages freeing slaves, and giving right to the slaves. But it does not forbid having a slave, neither gives punishment for having slaves. Just facts.
Some may even say, just because Quran does not say slavery is forbdiden, it doesn't mean it allows it. Well, then why in case of adultery it actually says it is forbidden, but in case of slavery it doesn't say it is forbidden?
So, the question is why not? Is not slavery a sin? Is slavery worst than stealing? Is slavery worst or having sex outside marriage? Which act is more unfair or deserves to be forbidden? Is it fair, that a person says "I own you"?. Is it fair to buy another person, and own them, and make them do things for you? Is not this like some kind of imprisoning? Let's think logically, without just trying to defend a belief....let's defend the truth.

 

[gnostic]

Islam protects women from selling their bodies to men,The prophet before death asked muslims to be kind with women among other things.?

How is being concubine, which is essentially a sex slave any different or any better than prostitute?

It is still treating women as properties as properties and sex objects.

As sex slaves it is not possible for any girl or woman to refuse to sex with a master who demand them.

I am not saying that woman don't go free, and sometimes marry to their owner. the question, can a slave woman refuse owner sex?

Any Muslim may marry as many as 4 women, but there are no limited to the number of have sex with so slaves or girls. Is that not true?

this is the way Muslims get around with committing adultery without being punish for it.

the Islamic society and empires are disgusting society, because they commit adultery with women they owned but not marry to.

 

[FearGod]

The Sharia of Islam for instance, forbids drinking wine, or stealing, adultery, and ordains punishments for these acts. But in case of having slaves, it does not forbid it. No!. It does not say "It is forbidden to have slaves".... There are verses though that Quran encourages freeing slaves, and giving right to the slaves. But it does not forbid having a slave, neither gives punishment for having slaves. Just facts.
Some may even say, just because Quran does not say slavery is forbdiden, it doesn't mean it allows it. Well, then why in case of adultery it actually says it is forbidden, but in case of slavery it doesn't say it is forbidden?
So, the question is why not? Is not slavery a sin? Is slavery worst than stealing? Is slavery worst or having sex outside marriage? Which act is more unfair or deserves to be forbidden? Is it fair, that a person says "I own you"?. Is it fair to buy another person, and own them, and make them do things for you? Is not this like some kind of imprisoning? Let's think logically, without just trying to defend a belief....let's defend the truth.

The truth is, you can't stop slavery,let all the world be rich and then no one will work for the other, as simple as this.

Can any government take the responsibility and to free all women from the slavery of prostitution and to give them good salaries and free houses for better living.

Can any government give good salaries and free houses for the jobless and poor families.

If we are all riches,then slavery will end.

But i wonder that you believe that the quran is from God while you think that God wasn't fair regarding slavery.

And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? (16:71)

 

[Draupadi]

Quote- let all the world be rich and then no one will work for the other

Then why can't we have servants? They are at least paid. And everyone works, poor or rich. But the degree varies. I don't condone slavery at all. We all can avoid it because it's not a part of the worship of God. The past is past. Equality is in demand and is right.

 

[FearGod]

How is being concubine, which is essentially a sex slave any different or any better than prostitute?

It is still treating women as properties as properties and sex objects.

As sex slaves it is not possible for any girl or woman to refuse to sex with a master who demand them.

I am not saying that woman don't go free, and sometimes marry to their owner. the question, can a slave woman refuse owner sex?

Any Muslim may marry as many as 4 women, but there are no limited to the number of have sex with so slaves or girls. Is that not true?

this is the way Muslims get around with committing adultery without being punish for it.

the Islamic society and empires are disgusting society, because they commit adultery with women they owned but not marry to.

Women working in brothels are forced to have sex for their need of money, they don't offer sex because they love men but forced to sex because of money.

Are you against prostitution ? you'll say it isn't my business if they wanted to.

But because you hate Islam then if a woman have sex with her boss, then that is awful and then you act as a religious man.:sarcastic

Slavery do exist, no one can stop it, but in Islam they have to eat similar to their boss, to wear similar to their boss, treated kindly, so simply they are rich and not as slavery of today, with low salary, bad treatment and even forced to work in bad conditions.

 

[FearGod]

Quote- let all the world be rich and then no one will work for the other

Then why can't we have servants? They are at least paid. And everyone works, poor or rich. But the degree varies. I don't condone slavery at all. We all can avoid it because it's not a part of the worship of God. The past is past. Equality is in demand and is right.

Slavery is reality, no one can stop it.

For example if in your country as you said that there is slavery, then as to solve it then your government should pay to free them and to give them monthly salaries and build free houses for them. do you think that is possible.

No one can force you to be a slave except if you'll die of starving.
No one can force you to be a prostitute except if you'll die of starving.

Omar Bin Alkhatib said "if i know that poorness is caused by a man, then i'll fight and kill him" but it isn't, that is the nature of reality which we can't change.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The truth is, you can't stop slavery,

The truth is that you cannot stop adultery and stealing, or drinking, yet, the Quran forbids them. But in case of slavery, it doesn't forbid. See the truth?

let all the world be rich and then no one will work for the other, as simple as this.

How would working for others equate slavery?

 

[gnostic]

Slavery do exist, no one can stop it, but in Islam they have to eat similar to their boss, to wear similar to their boss, treated kindly, so simply they are rich and not as slavery of today, with low salary, bad treatment and even forced to work in bad conditions.

"boss"?

a slave is not a paid employee. a slave is a property.

a slave or concubine have no choice, unless the owner decided to free her and marry her. the Quran may limit a man from having more than 4 wives, but it doesn't stop them have as many sex-slaves as they can afford. and with war captives, they don't even have to pay for slaves, such as the case with the Qurayza captives/slaves.

you are justifying not only slavery, but adultery. that's what so sickening.

the irony is that you think prostitution is wrong, but not sex-slavery. the moral compass of Islam is pervert as what happening recently in Nigeria with the schoolgirls. you Muslims like to make excuses for what you don't consider wrong, when it is wrong.

forget it, feargod. I can't convince Islamic apologist like you that sex-slaves are wrong. I am clearly wasting my time.

ps don't put words in my mouth. I don't like prostitution any more than you do. don't think I find prostitution to be acceptable. but having sex-slaves, to me, is even more morally wrong than prostitution.

 

[gnostic]

I find that any belief in god or any religion, in which it is acceptable to have sex with a slave or concubine - as religious law or custom - to be morally pervert, and that mean the deity is also morally pervert.

I couldn't care less if this god is called Jehovah or Allah.

 

[FearGod]

The truth is that you cannot stop adultery and stealing, or drinking, yet, the Quran forbids them. But in case of slavery, it doesn't forbid. See the truth?

The truth is "you don't believe that the quran is the words of god" then why as a Baha'i believe the quran and the bible to be revealed by God,just wondering why not reject religion and announce atheism, because slavery was permitted by God and hence how you follow the Abrahamic religion.

That is the truth that i wish you to reply with sincerity and honesty.

How would working for others equate slavery?

Because you are forced to work to gain money.

Why the prostitute has to be ****** by any man paying the price.

If you are a teacher, can you say to The school administration, hey i will leave for a month without any reason.

Can an employee tell his boss, i don't want to work for 2 months, don't ask me why, i just want to leave for 2 months.

You have to go to work whether you like it or not, it is a must and you are forced otherwise will be expelled from your job.

 

[gnostic]

So, the question is why not? Is not slavery a sin?

I am not religious, so word, like "sin" is really not in my vocabulary. i don't use sin.

so let me put it this way. slavery, slave trade and owning slave is morally wrong and criminally wrong.

I personally think that one person can't own another person, regardless of gender and race.

Is slavery worst than stealing?

they are both wrong, morally and criminally. but yes, personally, I think that slavery is worse. like I said earlier, people shouldn't own another human beings; they are not properties.

Is slavery worst or having sex outside marriage?

while I think they are both wrong, I think adultery is only morally wrong, but I don't think it is criminally wrong.

but slavery is worse, especially using women as sex slaves.