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Solution to homosexuals is by government executions according to Pastor.

joelr

Well-Known Member
Pastor says "solution" to gay people is executions: It's in the Bible

Wow.


Is it me, or is there an unusual amount of hate going on in Christianity today?


So executions will be determined by religious law and the majority religion? He looks pretty young. He's going to be sorry in 2050 when Islam outnumbers Christians in the U.S. and we have that law active........


  1. They who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein." 2:39
  1. Christians and Jews (who believe in only part of the Quran), will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
    1. Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2i:191-2
    2. Allah says that you must keep fighting until there is no more persecution and everyone on earth is a Muslim. Then you can stop killing people. 2:193a
      1. Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 9:73
      2. Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 9:74
    Cruelty in the Quran
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Which is why they're not Christians in actual meaning.

You can say "I'm good person because I believe so" but if you do bad things you're obviously not good right? it doesn't matter what you believe.


forgive him, otherwise you're not different than this "pastor", since what you're suggesting is an eye for an eye, a teeth for teeth.

I do not consider preventing harmful acts from continuing is anything to do with punishment. Forgiveness is always possible After someone changes their ways and makes restitution.
However the law has no provision for forgiveness. If your acts provoke the implementation of the law, punishment is inevitable.

When religion provokes or carries out illegal acts, it has placed itself under the the province and jurisdiction of the law.
It must expect due process to follow, without special exception or forgiveness.

This the exact position of this pastor. And this outcome would be the same for representatives of any other religion acting in the same way.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
An putting me into the same basket as this "pastor" is not insulting and ignorant and stupid?
Do you think he represents Christians or what Christianity is?

Have you never read John 8:1-11
Do you not find this "pastor" contradictory to Jesus' teachings?

I can understand you don't like what this pastor is saying, but what does this have to do with Christianity really?
What are you talking about? I made no comment comparing you to this pastor -- I was referring to what YOU wrote in YOUR OWN WORDS: "I always wondered why do gay people dress and talk like girls? and even take a makeup etc. I mean, I can understand that there is same sex attraction, but why being girlish?"

This is completely wrong -- the vast majority of gay people look and behave the same as everybody else, with the exception of who they prefer to make love to. So please don't try to excuse yourself by trying to turn attention to something else.

You would have done far better to have admitted what you said was wrong -- and apologized for it. The more Christian thing, too.
 

paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
What are you talking about? I made no comment comparing you to this pastor -- I was referring to what YOU wrote in YOUR OWN WORDS: "I always wondered why do gay people dress and talk like girls? and even take a makeup etc. I mean, I can understand that there is same sex attraction, but why being girlish?"

This is completely wrong -- the vast majority of gay people look and behave the same as everybody else, with the exception of who they prefer to make love to. So please don't try to excuse yourself by trying to turn attention to something else.

You would have done far better to have admitted what you said was wrong -- and apologized for it. The more Christian thing, too.
This whole thread is to discredit Christians and to view all Christians in same light as this unfortunate "pastor", there is no need to explicitly say anything.

The only thing in which I support this pastor is that pride is wrong as I said in my post #3
But obviously since my post was misunderstood and was seen in light of "gay pride" instead, I asked you a question for you to better understand why pride is wrong in post #197
But you ignored it, obviously because you now realize why "pride" is wrong.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
This whole thread is to discredit Christians and to view all Christians in same light as this unfortunate "pastor", there is no need to explicitly say anything.

The only thing in which I support this pastor is that pride is wrong as I said in my post #3
But obviously since my post was misunderstood and was seen in light of "gay pride" instead, I asked you a question for you to better understand why pride is wrong in post #197
But you ignored it, obviously because you now realize why "pride" is wrong.
Because as it happens, I don't necessarily think that pride is wrong. It is quite justified to take pride in a job well-done, or for having made a discovery of importance, or for having done a good thing for another person. If it is not wrong to say to another person "well done," then it is certainly not wrong to say it to yourself either.

What IS wrong, however, is excessive pride, or hubris. And though you don't seem able to see it, you might look around and see if you can spot any. Hint: don't forget that that would include those who think they know what everybody else should do.
 
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paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
Incitement and hate speech, it was loosely disguised as religion.
He broke no law, it's his right to preach in "all forms":
(see bold part)

Religious liberty is enshrined in the text of our Constitution and in numerous federal statutes.
It encompasses the right of all Americans to exercise their religion freely, without being coerced to join an established church or to satisfy a religious test as a qualification for public office.
It also encompasses the right of all Americans to express their religious beliefs, subject to the same narrow limits that apply to all forms of speech.
In the United States, the free exercise of religion is not a mere policy preference to be traded against other policy preferences.
It is a fundamental right.
Federal Register :: Federal Law Protections for Religious Liberty
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
What are you talking about? I made no comment comparing you to this pastor -- I was referring to what YOU wrote in YOUR OWN WORDS: "I always wondered why do gay people dress and talk like girls? and even take a makeup etc. I mean, I can understand that there is same sex attraction, but why being girlish?"

This is completely wrong -- the vast majority of gay people look and behave the same as everybody else, with the exception of who they prefer to make love to. So please don't try to excuse yourself by trying to turn attention to something else.

You would have done far better to have admitted what you said was wrong -- and apologized for it. The more Christian thing, too.

He was confusing them will cross dressers, who may or may not be gay.
He could also be confusing them with lady boys, who take an extreme female guise. And are accepted as a sort of third sex in their countries.
None of this is typical of the majority of homosexuals.
 

paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
The USA has a unique constitution that applies no where else. However even there, no one is above the law, including priests.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
it's not hard to google out:
religious freedom law <insert country name here>

He was confusing them will cross dressers, who may or may not be gay.
He could also be confusing them with lady boys, who take an extreme female guise. And are accepted as a sort of third sex in their countries.
None of this is typical of the majority of homosexuals.
You must be having remote brain vision and can see what I think. :)
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I bet he's a murderous religious fanatic.

That's a problem with religions & their sacred
texts, ie, there are passages that justify evil acts.

Actually... there's TONS of murderous texts in secular sacred books too - probably on the ratio of 1,000,000 evil secular verses to every one in the bible.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's very simple, if you live by OT you can't call yourself Christian, Christians are literary Christ's followers and live by NT. If somebody thinks we should live by the Jewish law (like this pastor), he's subject to law not to Jesus, and thus is not Christian but rather Jew.

Anybody can call themselves a Christian, and anybody else can agree with them that that is what they are. Do you call yourself a Christian? Then you're a Christian to me. This is the same standard used in surveys and censuses. Google "number of Christians in the world" and you get 2.38 billion. Ask a Christian how many other Christians there are in the world and they'll give you a number determined by asking people what religion they belong to.

There is no behavioral or doctrinal test for Christianity beyond believing that Jesus is divine in such surveys, and we take it for granted that anybody who calls themselves Christian believes that, because that's what it means to say one is Christian. None of those people is followed to see how Christlike their behavior is, nor quizzed about what they actually believe. They're Christians because they say they are, and that's my definition as well.

I understand why many Christians wish to marginalize the failures of Christianity like Hitler and Stalin, and claim that they aren't true Christians. But all Christians are true Christians. Outsiders judge the religion not by what the religion claims for itself, but what it actually generates. They don't look to the book.

Think about your own reaction to a terrorist claiming to be a Muslim. Do you give him a quiz on Muslim doctrine, or do you accept that he's Muslim because he says he is? Do you follow him around to see how well he conforms to the five pillars of Islam before agreeing that he is a Muslim? Do you ever use the term true Muslim? Do you listen to the Muslims when they tell you that some of them are not true Muslims because they vary in doctrine and rituals from other Muslims?

Those are the kinds of things that matter to Muslims, not non-Muslims, and if you can see that, then you can understand why non-Christians aren't interested in the standards self-proclaimed Christians use among themselves to decide which are "true Christians" because there is no concept of false Christian outside of the religion.

putting me into the same basket as this "pastor" is not insulting and ignorant and stupid?

It may be insulting to you, but it is neither ignorant nor stupid to see all homophobes as bigots. I suppose you believe that the opinions you express should be respected because they're religious, and you have freedom of religion and speech, but it doesn't work like that. You immediately marginalize and demonize yourself to many if not most non-Christians with your homophobic opinions. Nobody supports anybody finding homosexuality repulsive except other homophobes. You put yourself in that same basket with the pastor.

Do you think he represents Christians or what Christianity is?

Yes. He's a Christian pastor. Christians define what Christianity is with their behavior. He defines Christianity for his flock, who will go out and spread his message of hatred elsewhere. Where did you learn to think like this? Not from humanists.

Do you not find this "pastor" contradictory to Jesus' teachings?

Irrelevant. There is no opinion on homosexuality that makes a self-identifying Christian a non-Christian to an unbeliever. I can't stress to you enough that unbelievers don't care what's written in the book. That's true regarding every religion. We don't judge Sikhs or Jains by their degree of conformity to their holy book, nor Christians and Muslims. Do consider Islam a religion of peace because Muslims call it that and point to some words in their holy book. If you do consider it a religion of peace, you do so based on the behavior of Muslims that you can see. Christians will tell you that theirs is a religion of love. Should non-Christians believe that because Christians say it's so and point to words in a book that say love one another? You might like that, but it's not how I judge Christian love.

I'm assuming that you call yourself a Christian given your homophobic opinions and your use of the concept of true versus false Christian. Is that correct?

Therefore what you're saying is that Christians live by the Jewish law?

Where do you think the homophobia is found in the Christian Bible? It's in the older, bigger part, the part with the most scriptures.

You can say "I'm good person because I believe so" but if you do bad things you're obviously not good right? it doesn't matter what you believe.

Being good DOES have a behavioral test. Being Christian doesn't.
 

paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
Anybody can call themselves a Christian, and anybody else can agree with them that that is what they are.
Do you call yourself a Christian? Then you're a Christian to me.
fact is that I'm not pilot
But I think I am pilot
You agree with me
Therefore I'm pilot

This is nonsense.

It may be insulting to you, but it is neither ignorant nor stupid to see all homophobes as bigots. I suppose you believe that the opinions you express should be respected because they're religious, and you have freedom of religion and speech, but it doesn't work like that.
Therefore it makes sense that I should not respect opinions of the other side in same manner.

Yes. He's a Christian pastor. Christians define what Christianity is with their behavior.
This is your personal definition and you're contradicting yourself because previously you said it's enough to say "I'm Christian" to be Christian but now you say that behavior also matters.

Irrelevant.
If you call a fact irrelevant then I find you irrelevant as well because you deliberately reject reasonable argument.

I can't stress to you enough that unbelievers don't care what's written in the book.
If you don't care for opinion of others then why should others care about your opinion?

Where do you think the homophobia is found in the Christian Bible? It's in the older, bigger part, the part with the most scriptures.
That's why I said this pastor is not Christian but you contradictory insist he is.

Being good DOES have a behavioral test. Being Christian doesn't.
You have just proved how un-reasonable you are, bigotry clear as day.
 
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It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
fact is that I'm not pilot
But I think I am pilot
You agree with me
Therefore I'm pilot

This is nonsense.

Yes, but also irrelevant to the present discussion. Claiming to be an airplane pilot DOES have a behavioral test. You need to be able to fly an airplane. Claiming to be a Christian need not have a behavioral test to an unbeliever. You seem to object to that. Your definition of Christian doesn't work for me. It excludes much of what Christianity generates. You want to judge Christianity based on the better people in the religion, but that's like judging a doctor based only on his successes. One needs to consider his failures and their degree and frequency as well to get an accurate assessment of that physician. Likewise with Christianity. And humanism.

Therefore it makes sense that I should not respect opinions of the other side in same manner.

I wrote, "I suppose you believe that the opinions you express should be respected because they're religious, and you have freedom of religion and speech, but it doesn't work like that." I don't see how your comment relates to mine. It's not a rebuttal to the idea that religious ideas deserve no extra respect because they're religious ideas. Mencken said, "I must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." Likewise, I have a duty to be respectful to you, but not your beliefs. And you are free to do as you please as you do here on this thread, including expressing your aversion to a class of people who don't conform to your religious beliefs, which is far from a respectable position.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is your personal definition and you're contradicting yourself because previously you said it's enough to say "I'm Christian" to be Christian but now you say that behavior also matters.

That's fair enough. Let me clarify. Anybody who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian to me. But I also call some people likely Christians without that declaration based on their behavior, as I have with you, who has never claimed to be one to my knowledge. If I go into a church and see somebody kneeling with a rosary making the sign of the cross, I'm going to consider that person a Christian without asking.

I notice that you declined to clarify whether you call yourself a Christian or not, so I've decided what the likely answer is without your input, and judge Christianity and its effect on people building accordingly. When one looks at the spectrum of Christians and compares them to the spectrum of humanists, who have no religion and thus serve as a control group for determining the effect of Christianity, one sees the effect of this religion on people. Maybe you've noticed that you haven't written a single loving word in this thread, disagreeing with non-Christians about acceptance and tolerance of the LGBTQ community, promoting disrespect for them.

Also, notice that I am not saying that the behavior of an individual defines them as a Christian, which can also be correct, but that the behavior of Christians defines what Christianity is, not their words or the words in their book. Is Christianity a religion of love? Only to the extent that Christians are more loving than non-Christians like humanists. Is Christianity a religion of bigotry and hatred? Only to the extent that Christians are more bigoted and hateful than non-Christians like humanists. So, behavior is relevant, and sometimes used to identify Christians, but not necessary to identify one as a Christian.

You have just proved how un-reasonable you are, bigotry clear as day.

You haven't demonstrated any bigotry in me, but you have expressed bigotry yourself.
 

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
One thing Christianity does really well is self-loathing. And then takes this self-loathing and uses it to attack anyone who it can target. It's notable that many of these believers hate therapy and psychology, which is something they could really use. Hate is easy. Maturity is hard.

What I loathe, as a Christian, is the abysmal irrationality inherent in the preaching by many American pastors ('pastor'? How about that for irony!)

They sling verses around and their preaching style amounts to little more than literal wooden principles. The concept of different types of genre is a mystery to these guys.

Where I live I don't come across this nonsense very often, but USA seems to have
more than its fair share.

It's a gift to atheists of course! They can pretend that this is Christianity. :rolleyes:
 
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