South Carolina OKs ban on gender affirming care.

[libre]

. I said that in the context of if that kid was headed towards drugs and surgeries.

That's not the context of this law though.

Under this law, if a teacher finds out a child identifies as trans, and that the child does not want their parents to know for safety or personal comfort, the teacher would be legally compelled to reveal this information to the student's parents if asked about it, no matter the medical situation.

This has absolutely nothing to do with GAC, yet has been included in the bill by the republicans as part of their ongoing crusade against the LGBT.

Despite several attempts of mine to pry any disapproval of this dangerous practice, you have done nothing but expressed tentative support for outing children. I see your deflections as what they are.

 

[Heyo]

As I said a few posts back, I think the GOP is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

Uninformed (and thus incompetent) politicians telling doctors what to do and not to do is "the right thing"? I think they'd be much more effective in their work without such a nanny state.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

When you have many competing values, it becomes impossible to measure ‘the good’ empirically. Morality is not so simple to be reduced to science.

Perhaps not, but morality can still be expressed simply enough. Here's my try: "Morality refers to principles or standards of right and wrong conduct, encompassing the distinction between good and bad behavior, guiding individuals and societies in ethical decision-making."

Then, you must notice that last phrase: "guiding individuals and societies" which shows us that morality is 100% subjective. So how would you define "morality?" How would you equate your definition of morality to "the good?" And while you're at it, whose "good?"

 

[icehorse]

I looked into you links and I found no link to the meta-studies, thus why I asked.

Here's another link - I've added it to my list:

For parents Archives - Sex Matters

Here are all our publications with advice and guidance for parents. See also our updates, publications and external resources on healthcare (including healthcare for gender-confused children) and schools and safeguarding.

sex-matters.org

 

[icehorse]

Didn't we answer that in recent debates? The phenotypical sex only develops during pregnancy. Without hormonal influences every XY male would only express female characteristics. See Androgen insensitivity syndrome - Wikipedia.

So, yes, at conception you were "female" and only developed male anatomy later in the pregnancy.

But your cells' chromosomes did not change.

 

[icehorse]

That's not the context of this law though.

Under this law, if a teacher finds out a child identifies as trans, and that the child does not want their parents to know for safety or personal comfort, the teacher would be legally compelled to reveal this information to the student's parents if asked about it, no matter the medical situation.

This has absolutely nothing to do with GAC, yet has been included in the bill by the republicans as part of their ongoing crusade against the LGBT.

Despite several attempts of mine to pry any disapproval of this dangerous practice, you have done nothing but expressed tentative support for outing children. I see your deflections as what they are.

So walk through it with me. A teacher finds a kid with GD, what's the path from there to undergoing GAC?

The reason I ask is because supporters of GAC on this forum have been lambasting me for months about how thorough the process is and how "of course" the parents are a part of the decision to go thru GAC.

 

[libre]

Says the master of the universe? wow!

It doesn't take a master of the universe to recognize bigotry.

If someone posted 'My black friends are pretty disgusted and disillusioned with the black community' this would not be an objective appraisal of the black community, or evidence of anything wrong with the black community.

It's just an admission that the poster has exclusively befriended Uncle Toms. Same principle if you change it to any other social minority community.

 

[libre]

So walk through it with me. A teacher finds a kid with GD, what's the path from there to undergoing GAC?

It's not the teacher's job to advise the child medically.
The teachers job is to respect the child's identity, and to not take any action which endangers the child, such as outing them.
That's literally it.

Those that would criminalize a teacher protecting the children's privacy are incredibly dangerous and will get children abused and killed.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Perhaps not, but morality can still be expressed simply enough. Here's my try: "Morality refers to principles or standards of right and wrong conduct, encompassing the distinction between good and bad behavior, guiding individuals and societies in ethical decision-making."

Then, you must notice that last phrase: "guiding individuals a societies" which shows us that morality is 100% subjective. So how would you define "morality?" How would you equate your definition of morality to "the good?" And while you're at it, who’s "good?"

I assume the desire to unify with the good and true, so I would define morality more generally: the conscious discernment of how to act. I don’t limit moral guidance to the rational intellect like I suspect you do so I wouldn’t say principles.

I agree morality is subjective, but I also believe it is universal. However, what the majority of people currently believe the good and true to be is not the actual good and true. I believe the good and true are what will be universally agreed upon in the future by those who pass through the next great filter. That’s going to require persuasion and development. In other words, you will know them by their fruit.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That's not the context of this law though.

Under this law, if a teacher finds out a child identifies as trans, and that the child does not want their parents to know for safety or personal comfort, the teacher would be legally compelled to reveal this information to the student's parents if asked about it, no matter the medical situation.

This has absolutely nothing to do with GAC, yet has been included in the bill by the republicans as part of their ongoing crusade against the LGBT.

Despite several attempts of mine to pry any disapproval of this dangerous practice, you have done nothing but expressed tentative support for outing children. I see your deflections as what they are.

I wonder if you would say something like that in comparison with the Catholic church and pedophile priests where the church would be compelled to report who that priest is to the authorities.

Parents whether you like it or not, are the authorities on how they want to see their children raised.

If there's real actual abuse of the child as a consequence, then the government authorities can rightfully intervene and not before , and not under assumption, which makes this a reasonable law until the child is an adult him or her self, and can make their own decisions henceforth.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

It's not the teacher's job to advise the child medically.
The teachers job is to respect the child's identity, and to not take any action which endangers the child, such as outing them.
That's literally it.

Those that would criminalize a teacher protecting the children's privacy are incredibly dangerous and will get children abused and killed.

Children are socialized and molded by adults. This is a reality. It’s called parenting. Not parenting is called negligence. A child’s worldview, including their view of gender, is the domain of the child’s parents.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Children are socialized and molded by adults. This is a reality. It’s called parenting. Not parenting is called negligence. A child’s worldview, including their view of gender, is the domain of the child’s parents.

With that said, a child has rights and the government strives to protect those rights. Not being parented by their parents is not a right of a child. A teacher should respect that.

 

[Regiomontanus]

From APnews: South Carolina House OKs ban on gender-affirming care for minors, Missouri panel sees similar bills
This bill blocks puberty blockers and hormones from minors, however as previously predicted, it was never just about minors.

"People under 26 could not use Medicaid to cover the costs for such care, and school employees could not withhold knowledge of a student’s transgender identity from their legal guardians."

Additionally, forcing schools to out LGBT youth to their parents is truly evil.

Thank you for sharing this good news!

 

[icehorse]

It's not the teacher's job to advise the child medically.
The teachers job is to respect the child's identity, and to not take any action which endangers the child, such as outing them.
That's literally it.

Those that would criminalize a teacher protecting the children's privacy are incredibly dangerous and will get children abused and killed.

again, how do you propose we go from the teacher learning a kid has GD to the kid undergoing GAC. walk me thru the sequence of events.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Children are socialized and molded by adults. This is a reality. It’s called parenting. Not parenting is called negligence. A child’s worldview, including their view of gender, is the domain of the child’s parents.

Exactly. That's the way it has been through all mankind. Parents are the authority. Not the other way around.

Just because these people don't like the idea of having parents in charge of their children doesn’t it mean you can force change on how its always been since the dawn of man, and they ignorantly wonder why so many children today are going mad and crazy.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Children are socialized and molded by adults. This is a reality. It’s called parenting. Not parenting is called negligence. A child’s worldview, including their view of gender, is the domain of the child’s parents.

I find that a horrible assertion. Did you ever see the movie "Dead Poets Society?" To see what parents can do when they insist their child will conform to their ideas of what (s)he should be?

Every human being is an individual. The parent who thinks that they determine who/what their child should be is a terrible parent, unfit for the job!

One of my best friends said it best, when talking about his own son: "I didn't expect it, but I just love the man he's become!"

 

[Bthoth]

From APnews: South Carolina House OKs ban on gender-affirming care for minors, Missouri panel sees similar bills
This bill blocks puberty blockers and hormones from minors, however as previously predicted, it was never just about minors.

"People under 26 could not use Medicaid to cover the costs for such care, and school employees could not withhold knowledge of a student’s transgender identity from their legal guardians."

Additionally, forcing schools to out LGBT youth to their parents is truly evil.

Teachers and schools have no business in the LBGT model.

And the requirement to teach a kid that they can choose which they want to be, is worse than blocking children taking medicines that could ruin their lives.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I find that a horrible assertion. Did you ever see the movie "Dead Poets Society?" To see what parents can do when they insist their child will conform to their ideas of what (s)he should be?

Every human being is an individual. The parent who thinks that they determine who/what their child should be is a terrible parent, unfit for the job!

I’m not denying there are many terrible parents, but putting parents in the position of final authority on the necessary socialization of the child is better than the danger of the alternative. Only tyrants, or the extremely naive, disagree with this structure.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I’m not denying there are many terrible parents, but putting parents in the position of final authority on the necessary socialization of the child is better than the danger of the alternative. Only tyrants, or the extremely naive, disagree with this structure.

As a badly batttered child -- nearly killed twice by my step-father before I was 7 years old -- made ward of the Children's Aid by the court at 7, I cannot tell you how strongly I disagree with you. That is my "lived experience."

It might surprise you to learn that I do not consider the courts that saved me to by "tyrants" or "extremely naive." Why would you suppose a drunk who tried to kill a 7 year-old should be the "final authority" over anything in that child's life?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

With that said, a child has rights and the government strives to protect those rights.

I would never advocate forcing a child to remain in a physically abusive environment. Imposing a worldview on a child through socialization is not equal to physical violence.