Spirit vs. Soul

[Straw Dog]

Yes, all our spirits have a father who is God the eternal Father. Secondly, yes, we all have a heavenly mother as well, however, as far as I am aware, the scriptures do not explicitly refer to her, nor have I inquired of God the Father concerning her. Lastly, within our spirits exists a certain level of intelligence, which always existed and never was created, neither could it have been, because it always existed. But there was a point when God created for us spiritual bodies to house our intelligences so as to give us a spiritual identity and a means to continue acquiring intelligence. This was an expression of His love for us as is the gift of mortality. It's all a part of his plan to help us become more like He is. This is why he will resurrect us from the grave after death. You see, we were created in His image, even His physical image. We are the children of God.

Let me take another gander now that I have a little bit more time.

So why does the feminine aspect of God get ignored? It seems that it would be just as important.

So we have an eternal aspect of intelligence that is underdeveloped and the body is equally important for the growth of this intelligence?

What does the physical image of God look like?

So the ultimately plan is conformity with God?

Can I just do my own thing and make things up as I go along rather than conform to this static ideal? Does God value originality at all or just robot versions of himself?

 

[Aupmanyav]

If we existed eternally before our mortal births, then when were our spirits ever conceived in the first place?

Some Hindus say that we are eternal, star material, Brahman. Birth and death are mere illusions.

Does God value originality at all or just robot versions of himself?

God values originality. See what Hindus have done with their thousands of Gods and Goddesses.

So all our spirits have a father? Do they have a mother as well?

Sure, Parvati, the universal mother (Ganesha's mother as well). Celebrations when Mother Parvati returns for a fortnight from her husbands house to the house of her mother every year (that would be April 2, 2014).

 

[jchristopher]

"So why does the feminine aspect of God get ignored? It seems that it would be just as important."

I do not know why our heavenly mother has been excluded from both ancient and modern-day prophecies. I have heard some church leaders say that God did this because she is so sacred and dear to Him that he would not allow her name to be desecrated by the wicked as His has. Whatever the reason is, I trust it is a good one.

"So we have an eternal aspect of intelligence that is underdeveloped and the body is equally important for the growth of this intelligence?"

Bingo!

"What does the physical image of God look like?"

Just like us. Our physical bodies were created in His image. Only His body is immortal, perfected, and full of light. He also looks like the resurrected and risen Lord Jesus Christ, with body, passions, and parts, although they are separate and distinct beings. Remember how the apostles saw Christ after he arose from the dead? "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see: for spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have...and they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them" (John 24:39-42).

"So the ultimately plan is conformity with God?"

Yes. God's plan is to follow his son Jesus Christ all the way back to Him

"Can I just do my own thing and make things up as I go along rather than conform to this static ideal?"

Yes, you may choose to follow a different path or create your own plan, but it won't lead back to our heavenly father to live in happiness with our families. This may seem unfair, but trust me, it's quite the opposite. He has given us both a choice and away.

"Does God value originality at all or just robot versions of himself?"

Yes, God values originality very much. In fact, as pre-mortal spirit child of God, you were unique and original and continue to be in this life as well. He created you to be original. You can't help but be at least partially original in the things you do. Even when conforming to a certain precept or mimicking another, you are doing it in a unique way. You cannot exactly replicate the way in which another accomplishes something. God relies on our unique talents and abilities to accomplish his purposes in helping his children return to him. One of the ways that Satan gets people to rebel against God's plan is to deceive them into thinking that if they follow it, they will have to sacrifice their originality. Let me ask you this, does honoring and obeying the laws of your state or the rules of your employer require you to sacrifice your originality?

 

[Straw Dog]

Some Hindus say that we are eternal, star material, Brahman. Birth and death are mere illusions.God values originality. See what Hindus have done with their thousands of Gods and Goddesses.

Cool beans! It is really a beautiful culture.

Since God values originality, I guess I don't have to follow Hinduism then.

 

[Straw Dog]

I do not know why our heavenly mother has been excluded from both ancient and modern-day prophecies. I have heard some church leaders say that God did this because she is so sacred and dear to Him that he would not allow her name to be desecrated by the wicked as His has. Whatever the reason is, I trust it is a good one.

It sounds like God the Father is overly protective.

Why do you trust that the reason is good without actually hearing it?

Just like us. Our physical bodies were created in His image. Only His body is immortal, perfected, and full of light. He also looks like the resurrected and risen Lord Jesus Christ, with body, passions, and parts, although they are separate and distinct beings. Remember how the apostles saw Christ after he arose from the dead? "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see: for spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have...and they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them" (John 24:39-42).

Why do you believe this? When did you first hear of it?

Yes. God's plan is to follow his son Jesus Christ all the way back to Him

Yes, you may choose to follow a different path or create your own plan, but it won't lead back to our heavenly father to live in happiness with our families. This may seem unfair, but trust me, it's quite the opposite. He has given us both a choice and away.

Oh, good. Then I choose reality and transcendence of life/death duality.

Yes, God values originality very much. In fact, as pre-mortal spirit child of God, you were unique and original and continue to be in this life as well. He created you to be original. You can't help but be at least partially original in the things you do. Even when conforming to a certain precept or mimicking another, you are doing it in a unique way. You cannot exactly replicate the way in which another accomplishes something. God relies on our unique talents and abilities to accomplish his purposes in helping his children return to him. One of the ways that Satan gets people to rebel against God's plan is to deceive them into thinking that if they follow it, they will have to sacrifice their originality. Let me ask you this, does honoring and obeying the laws of your state or the rules of your employer require you to sacrifice your originality?

So God is powerless without us?

 

[Sha'irullah]

The soul is a result from illusion of an identity. The spirit is the result from understanding one's nature as God.

Some pretty fancy words ya using there buddy. I must say though that by asserting the spirit to a form of auto-theistic nature you are heavily blurring the lines of what is spirit and what is god. The soul is the mind and the spirit is the immortal essence of the soul, the spirit is essentially the 2nd body and continuation of the soul in another vessel

 

[jchristopher]

It sounds like God the Father is overly protective.

Why do you trust that the reason is good without actually hearing it?

Because God is trustworthy. He's proven himself to me time and time again. I know his reasons are legit because he is God

Why do you believe this? When did you first hear of it?

Didn't I make it obvious in my explanation? We were created in God's image. Christ is in the express image of the Father and he (Christ) was resurrected from the grave and became an immortal being. How could all these things be if the Father does not have an immortal body of flesh and bone? Jesus said to his disciples, if ye have seen me ye have seen the Father. And for all you who believe the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be one singular being, how could you not believe this doctrine considering you know that Christ was resurrected unto immortality?

Oh, good. Then I choose reality and transcendence of life/death duality.

I don't believe that is an option. I believe you must choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil. You see, by virtue of the "fall" we are all subject to sin and death. We cannot escape it. The only way that our corruption can put on incorruption is through the infinite and eternal sacrifice of Christ, the sacrifice of one who did no sin, the sacrifice of a God. So no, you cannot author your own path to life because you don't have the power of life within you. Whether you like it or not, you are a dual being, it's part of mortality.

So God is powerless without us?

No, but he does bless us with opportunities to give of our time and talents to serve and lift those around us. Since he is omniscient, he is able to put specific people in our path that can help us in a ways that others can't. However, because he doesn't force us to obey him, sometimes we ignore those promptings and lose out on special opportunities to serve. When this happens, the Lord sends someone else. He knows some people won't respond to the call, but he still gives them a chance to prove themselves.

 

[Straw Dog]

I don't believe that is an option. I believe you must choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil. You see, by virtue of the "fall" we are all subject to sin and death. We cannot escape it. The only way that our corruption can put on incorruption is through the infinite and eternal sacrifice of Christ, the sacrifice of one who did no sin, the sacrifice of a God. So no, you cannot author your own path to life because you don't have the power of life within you. Whether you like it or not, you are a dual being, it's part of mortality.

You're right. There is something greater than myself that emanates the power of life. Perhaps holism is easier to understand than nonduality or oneness.

What about realizing eternity within the moment? What about becoming more life-giving as a means of transformation in general?

Why the need for a scapegoat? Why would God not enable us the power to bear total responsibility for our own sins? Can there be an eternal life without an eternal death?

No, but he does bless us with opportunities to give of our time and talents to serve and lift those around us. Since he is omniscient, he is able to put specific people in our path that can help us in a ways that others can't. However, because he doesn't force us to obey him, sometimes we ignore those promptings and lose out on special opportunities to serve. When this happens, the Lord sends someone else. He knows some people won't respond to the call, but he still gives them a chance to prove themselves.

Thanks for trying to clarify, but theological language just confuses me sometimes. Fortunately, I don't happen to think we all must conform to any single conception or belief. Awareness of things as they are is different from a particular conceptualization of reality. Spiritual discernment is not the same as theological belief in personal experience. I understand that our experiences may be different, however.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Om Namah Shivay!!!

For a very long time, I considered the 'Spirit' and the 'Soul' to be synonymous.

It still is like that, but 'Soul' is Atman (in Sanskrit). It is the 'spark of Brahman' that exists within us all, like a tiny flame within the cavern of our heart.

Spirit is slightly different. It incorporates Atman, but also our 'Astral Body', where all the Chakras and more subtle 'spiritual forces' reside. It is the 'Spirit' that leaves the body during Astral Travel, but the 'Soul' remains behind.

Why isn't the Goddess worshiped?

Well, I don't know about anybody else, but...

Jai Mata Kali!!!

 

[Aupmanyav]

Since God values originality, I guess I don't have to follow Hinduism then.

Sure, you do not have to. Only just try to fulfill your obligations. Not following Hinduism does not bar you from heaven. Lord Krishna said:

"Shreyan sva-dharmo vigunah, para-dharmat svanushthitat;
svabhava-niyatam karma, kurvan napnoti kilbisham."

(It is better to engage in one's own duties, even though one may perform it imperfectly, than to accept another's duties and perform it perfectly. Prescribed duties, according to one's nature, are never sinful.)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Om Namah Shivay!!!

You know, NYK, the person who plays Shiva is a fellow Kashmiri, the girl is a Kahatriya girl (Bhadoria, Chauhan). Chauhans were the last Hindu rulers of Delhi before Jawaharlal Nehru. Chauhans are supposed to be Agnivamshis (descendants of the Fire god), probably not from the Aryan stock.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

You know, NYK, the person who plays Shiva is a fellow Kashmiri, the girl is a Kahatriya girl (Bhadoria, Chauhan). Chauhans were the last Hindu rulers of Delhi before Jawaharlal Nehru. Chauhans are supposed to be Agnivamshis (descendants of the Fire god), probably not from the Aryan stock.

All I know, is that the guys who play 'Shiva' are all usually pro wrestlers and the girls who play Devi are all top model actresses .

I know of the Chauhans, because of one of my most favourite Bhajan singers is Hemant Chauhan.

Other than that, this 'Shiva' is a lot cuter than all the others portrayed in Shiv MahaPuran. :hearts:

Thanks for the trivia though. That was interesting.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

...by the way, this image says to me:

"Man, are we all fricken BORED!" I mean, just look at them.

 

[Straw Dog]

I think it has to do with cultivating a higher awareness of the total responsibility of the greater interdependent system working together. It incites a call to harmonious action.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Man, are we all fricken BORED!" I mean, just look at them.

April is hot in India. They are waiting for the procession to arrive (Happens in Rajasthan cities).

1880 painting of Gangaur procession; Woman offering eatables to the son-in-law, Shiva; Parvati idols; Elephants; the Procession; Parvati entering the Royal Palace in Udaipur; See the rest here https://www.google.co.in/search?q=g...KYOOrQfq2IGAAg&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=620; Dancing girls are an integral part of the procession (everybody is happy, why not them too?).

 

[George-ananda]

So what are the differences between the spirit and the soul?

~SD

In my eastern views I see spirit as the animating force of everything in the universe. Soul is a a super-physical body resident on a super physical plane that spins new incarnations on the lower planes to gain wisdom through experience.

Spirit is eternal unchanging.

Soul is temporary and changing

 

[Straw Dog]

In my eastern views I see spirit as the animating force of everything in the universe. Soul is a a super-physical body resident on a super physical plane that spins new incarnations on the lower planes to gain wisdom through experience.

Spirit is eternal unchanging.

Soul is temporary and changing

Cool. I like the idea of the soul just being on a super-physical nonmaterial plane.

Why does it need to gain wisdom? Does wisdom make any sense outside a particular context of experience?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Greetings,

The notions of 'soul' and 'spirit' are sometimes used interchangeably, but many religions also discern between them. I don't grasp at any particular theological beliefs, but sometimes feel that the Spirit may be something different from theology.

So what are the differences between the spirit and the soul? Is there any consensus on these matters whatsoever? Can they be tested somehow to determine their nature and purposes?

Thanks,

~SD

Spirit:

Soul:

 

[Straw Dog]

Spirit:

Soul:

Ah! The first solid evidence for spirit and soul. I'd like to see the skeptics try to rationalize this one!

So the spiritual realm kind of plays out like Pixar's Cars?? Amazing!

 

[George-ananda]

Why does it need to gain wisdom? Does wisdom make any sense outside a particular context of experience?

New souls are formed on their soul plane and need experiences to advance in wisdom. An analogy from the physical plane would be a baby has no wisdom yet of the world and an older adult (hopefully) has gained a lot of wisdom.

Now here's something I just found on the internet that talks about the level of soul wisdom and how it effects their current incarnation on earth. I'm not going to defend how accurate this is but I am presenting it as food for thought.

THE INFANT SOUL

INFANT SOULS choose lessons of physical survival. They live in simple situations that include intense experiences - famine, plagues, floods, wars, oppression, etc. They don’t know the difference between right and wrong, though they can be taught to be decent human beings. They don’t usually seek higher
education and often don’t seek employment, as such. Infant souls don’t question authority and willingly adopt the religion of their parents as is.

THE BABY SOUL

BABY SOULS display less fear than infant souls and are more sophisticated. But they tend to over apply rules. Black is black as far as they’re concerned. Their strong early beliefs remain fixed in their minds, regardless of lack of their wisdom or tolerance. Baby souls love to become big fish in their little puddles...but hate being opposed. Because of this they may spend much time in litigation. Baby souls don’t spend time navel-gazing into their own lives. They’re often “good students” that learn “proper subjects,” and are attracted to fundamentalist religions.

THE YOUNG SOUL

YOUNG SOULS are the “Donald Trumps” of the world...the movers and shakers. They usually set the bar too high for themselves. Achievement is paramount. They chase after what they believe will bring success without ever stopping to think why - because they’re so limited in their perception. They fear death and must have all the toys, experiences, fame and money they can possibly accumulate before they die. They are designers of civilization. Young souls usually seek higher education and graduate-level degrees. Their views of orthodoxy are at one end of the spectrum or the other. Monks and nuns are at one end and a belief in total sexual freedom, the other. They have difficulty with insight into other people’s behaviour.

THE MATURE SOUL

MATURE SOULS challenge the young soul’s desire to “have it all.” It is a hard cycle that demands seeking answers to life’s tough questions. They are attracted to gentler faiths, such as Quaker, Unitarian, or Buddhist. Mature souls are not as open to the occult as old souls. They look for and question the motivation for all of life’s actions. They often continue with inappropriate relationships - perhaps believing that through self-sacrifice, or tough
lessons they will ultimately prevail. Often they can’t shake their sense of duty. Mature souls suffer from stress related illness that sometimes results in
schizophrenia, psychosis and a higher suicide rate than other souls. [Cayce emphasized the role that ‘stress’ plays in not only physical illnesses but also
mental illnesses; he believed it was ‘stress’ that wrecked havoc on the brain chemistry/balance]. But they’re smart enough to seek professional help
without urging. Mature souls often make huge contributions to knowledge - particularly philosophical and scientific. But altogether they don’t necessarily have the drive for fame, many still achieve it. They’re emotionally high maintenance.

THE OLD SOUL

OLD SOULS live and let live. They seek the route of least resistance...they’re individualistic and usually easy going. They have an inner knowing of the waste of time in pursuing fame and fortune and therefore create the appearance of being “laid back.” Old souls are highly competent - even in roles they don’t particularly like. They tend to choose work that is pleasant and undemanding, leaving them free to pursue their desired goals easily...unless the job adds to the spiritual search. They may or may not seek higher
education...but definitely will seek it if the my sense it’s needed for their chosen path. Old souls create confidence in animals. And their choice of medical care tends to be alternative and holistic.
Old souls are here to teach others their spiritual understandings. Their philosophies and writings are simple and easy to read. Old souls religion is far
reaching and has no label. A grove of trees is a sacred place to them. They seldom cling to dogma and prefer personal spiritual practices. However, old
souls are wise enough to be discreet in their religious practices and know how to pass in public undetected. They focus on searching for the spiritual
truth and have a finer sense of knowing what is true than any other souls level. Old souls all over the world share the experience of emptiness and a
longing for that feeling of home.