Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.

[blackout]

you old people. :flirt:



shhhhhhhhh....

 

[Mr Cheese]

you old people. :flirt:



shhhhhhhhh....

ha....

at your age you're still very... (cough cough) "vibrant"

:flirt:

 

[Carico]

Another reason I am struggling with this as I have a few cousins of mine who are openly gay (and I must say I am close to them so dont want to offend them in anyway by posing this question to them) and they attend church but according to my church they are living a lie, then again maybe I should just come right out and ask what their thoughts are.....

Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), does this mean that I am sinning as I'm not opposing my family members? As you will gather, although I have been thinking about it long and hard, I still havent drawn my conclusion yet as I dont feel it is my place to judge someone because of their sexuality as I am not judged on mine (well not that I know of).

I got news for you; none of us can help our lust, envy, greed, anger, sloth, pride or gluttony which is precisely why Jesus is the only answer to the sin problem. So condoning lust because one can't help himself is as ludicrous as condoning murder because one can't help his anger.

 

[blackout]

I got news for you; none of us can help our lust, envy, greed, anger, sloth, pride or gluttony which is precisely why Jesus is the only answer to the sin problem. So condoning lust because one can't help himself is as ludicrous as condoning murder because one can't help his anger.

Speak fo' yo' self honey.

I have overcome all of these things plus more.
And it wasn't until AFTER I LEFT christianity,
that I found mySelf truly free to let my past hurts and disapointments go
and finally just BE me with no jealousy or puffed up pride.
When you are truly and meaninfully YOU,
so much other stuff just falls away.
Past stupidities just fail to matter any longer,
and there is no need for "pride" silliness...
because you KNOW how TRULY awesome and amazing and unique your are,
and you are free to explore and express that however you best see fit.

I might also add that meaningful sexual relationships with people you love
does not lust make. :no:

I liked how Sunstone put it in another thread,
"Lust is sexual greed".

*UV wonders if she frubaled him for that....*

 

[Enlighten]

I got news for you; none of us can help our lust, envy, greed, anger, sloth, pride or gluttony which is precisely why Jesus is the only answer to the sin problem. So condoning lust because one can't help himself is as ludicrous as condoning murder because one can't help his anger.

Carcio, I think you have missed the point of a relationship, they have been together for years and are very much in love, not lust, albiet the relationship probably started as lust as most do but love does come into the equation when relationship develops. :yes:

You cannot seriously tell me that you don't feel anger at all, or pride for that matter, but because you feel these at times I cannot automatically assume that you are a murderer . Seriously in one breath you state that none of us can help these things then condemn me for condoning "lust" as it would be as silly as condoning murder, think about it please.

 

[starlite]

Hey, I know we all dont agree 100% with everything in our religions but I have been thinking really long and hard about something that was discussed in church on Sunday, here is the news story: BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Kirk votes to back gay minister

According to the bible it is a sin for to be gay (I struggle with this as I dont believe people "choose" to be gay, I think it is the way they are and they would live a lie if they pretended not to be): Romans, Chapter 1 (King James Bible) - ChristianAnswers® WebBible™

Another reason I am struggling with this as I have a few cousins of mine who are openly gay (and I must say I am close to them so dont want to offend them in anyway by posing this question to them) and they attend church but according to my church they are living a lie, then again maybe I should just come right out and ask what their thoughts are.....

Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), does this mean that I am sinning as I'm not opposing my family members? As you will gather, although I have been thinking about it long and hard, I still havent drawn my conclusion yet as I dont feel it is my place to judge someone because of their sexuality as I am not judged on mine (well not that I know of).

Perhaps it would be of benefit to research Matthew 7:21-24. Evidently these verses show that attending church etc...is not what makes us approved by God.

 

[Enlighten]

Perhaps it would be of benefit to research Matthew 7:21-24. Evidently these verses show that attending church etc...is not what makes us approved by God.

uh-huh:

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

I know these verses well, I dont need to research them, but thought I'd post for anyone that doesn't know. I know that not everyone who attends church will be saved, anyone would be a fool to think that.

Anyway, I'm straying from my reply... why do I need to research these verses?

 

[starlite]

uh-huh: I know these verses well, I dont need to research them, but thought I'd post for anyone that doesn't know. I know that not everyone who attends church will be saved, anyone would be a fool to think that.

Anyway, I'm straying from my reply... why do I need to research these verses?

My point about church was because you mentioned that your family members attend church. I re-read you initial post and I think I understand your situation. You are wondering how you should treat these ones, correct? The first few verses of Mt. 7 discuss how we are not to judge others. And actually it is the behavior of these ones that is unacceptable not the person themselves. Asking them might just open a discussion that would allow you to listen and then discern the best way to direct them to God's Word. Of course, a self-righteous disposition on your part may cause them to become defensive. Sincerity and humility is in imitation of Jesus and he accomplished much good in touching people's hearts. Also, by initiating a conversation with your cousins you will showing God that you uphold His standards. Remember too, that prayer will help you in deciding what to say.

 

[Enlighten]

My point about church was because you mentioned that your family members attend church. I re-read you initial post and I think I understand your situation. You are wondering how you should treat these ones, correct? The first few verses of Mt. 7 discuss how we are not to judge others. And actually it is the behavior of these ones that is unacceptable not the person themselves. Asking them might just open a discussion that would allow you to listen and then discern the best way to direct them to God's Word. Of course, a self-righteous disposition on your part may cause them to become defensive. Sincerity and humility is in imitation of Jesus and he accomplished much good in touching people's hearts. Also, by initiating a conversation with your cousins you will showing God that you uphold His standards. Remember too, that prayer will help you in deciding what to say.

I get you now, thank you!

Sorry I just re-read my last post to you and I came off as being very short, I didn't mean to come across this way so I apologise. :sorry1:

 

[starlite]

I get you now, thank you!

Sorry I just re-read my last post to you and I came off as being very short, I didn't mean to come across this way so I apologise. :sorry1:

 

[Mr Cheese]

You are wondering how you should treat these ones, correct? The first few verses of Mt. 7 discuss how we are not to judge others. And actually it is the behavior of these ones that is unacceptable not the person themselves.

And exactly what behaviour is this?

As has been mentioned elsewhere, the bible is clear, it speaks against sleeping around. It is not clear about "homosexuality" though.... Jesus never says anythign about homosexuality. Any "mention" of homosexuality found in the bible is dubious, especially when we look at the original language... The belief that the bible implicitly says" Homosexual acts are evil" is simply untrue. But enough people get fed a lie, people believe it.

For example,God Helps Them That Help Themselves many think this is biblical, it is not.

 

[starlite]

And exactly what behaviour is this?

As has been mentioned elsewhere, the bible is clear, it speaks against sleeping around. It is not clear about "homosexuality" though.... Jesus never says anythign about homosexuality. Any "mention" of homosexuality found in the bible is dubious, especially when we look at the original language... The belief that the bible implicitly says" Homosexual acts are evil" is simply untrue. But enough people get fed a lie, people believe it.

For example,God Helps Them That Help Themselves many think this is biblical, it is not.

Just wondering....then why did God create a man and woman to be a couple (husband and wife; AKA Adam and Eve) ? If you care to read the scriptural reference at Leviticus 18:22 I believe it states God's view of homosexuality.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So condoning lust because one can't help himself is as ludicrous as condoning murder because one can't help his anger.

I have tendacies to lie, quite abit. And I'm really good at it. But since lying is usually not the best thing to do, I control it. No Jesus needed.
Also, BTW, there is a MAJOR difference between love and lust. Love is when you are actually in love with someone, thus comes the term "love making." Lust is when you are just horny and need to be laid.
However, being gay doesn't hurt me, nor anyone else, I find absolutely no reason to control it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just wondering....then why did God create a man and woman to be a couple (husband and wife) ? If you care to read the scriptural reference in my original post I believe it states God's view of homosexuality.

God also made Lilith, which she refused to be submissive to Adam just because he was a male. And then after she was kicked out the Garden for being rebelious, God created a new woman from a part of Adam, so the new woman would be more submissive.

 

[starlite]

Any "mention" of homosexuality found in the bible is dubious, especially when we look at the original language... The belief that the bible implicitly says" Homosexual acts are evil" is simply untrue.

In addition, the thread Forbidden? is discussing this subject

 

[Green Gaia]

Just wondering....then why did God create a man and woman to be a couple (husband and wife; AKA Adam and Eve)

Did God? Or did men come up with that to subjugate women?

J If you care to read the scriptural reference at Leviticus 18:22 I believe it states God's view of homosexuality.

No, it states an ancient, patriarchal society's view of homosexuality.

 

[Riverwolf]

God also made Lilith, which she refused to be submissive to Adam just because he was a male. And then after she was kicked out the Garden for being rebelious, God created a new woman from a part of Adam, so the new woman would be more submissive.

Lillith wasn't expelled from the Garden for not submitting to Adam.

She was expelled for speaking the Holy Name of God, which is forbidden.

 

[Green Gaia]

Lillith wasn't expelled from the Garden for not submitting to Adam.

She was expelled for speaking the Holy Name of God, which is forbidden.

And the Earth was created on the back of a turtle.

 

[Riverwolf]

And the Earth was created on the back of a turtle.

What prompted that? I was just relating the story.

I'll go one further, and say that when Lillith spoke the Holy Name, she gained supernatural powers and left the garden herself. God sent angels to get her back, but she refused.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Just wondering....then why did God create a man and woman to be a couple (husband and wife; AKA Adam and Eve) ? If you care to read the scriptural reference at Leviticus 18:22 I believe it states God's view of homosexuality.

no1. that is a poor tanslation of levitucus.

It is a historical fact that the vast majoirty of Judaic sexual prohibitions were not solidified until the middle ages. For instance Jews lived in sin before marriage often. The middle ages were a time of sexual turmoil in religion. Mainly due to christianity which began (largely) its crusade to see sex as dirty. The Jews in response created their own morals and dogmas. We see in the writings of the Zohar for example a direct opposition to Christian Ideals

If one actually examines the original language, from a scholarly perspective, it really is ambigous and dubious that this passage is about homosexuality at all.

no2 Christians often like to say they only follow the New testamanet, but then like hypocrits follow the Torah (OT) when it suits them. Do you eat shrimp? Ever have meat and dairy products in your fridge? Then you are also going against God's commands. Why pick only one out of the many that exist?

As jesus supposedly came to bring a new covenant, his command that we should love each other, negates the OT commands don't they? In fact, Jesus has NOTHING to say about homosexuality at ALL

How do you deal with the bible saying that David loved Johnathon more than any oher woman? For that IS what it says...


no3 God created all things right? Well plenty of animals are homosexuals too, does that mean Satan really created them?

In fact in the end your only justification for these ideas really are because someone else said this way of thinking is correct. But I see from your statement where your thought processes are, they are very limited, to be polite. SO I understand your justifications for bigotry, which from my perspective (your justifications) are an act of one who refuses to actually think for themselves.



Further: See Arthur Green's introduction to the Zohar