Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.

[theonepaladin]

It is not a choice to be gay, however, regardless to what you may think or say, God says it is a sin. And therefore, it is.

Most people misinterpret the Bible, my Order and I set the Truth into motion. In the Holy Bible, it says in the Old Testament: "If a man lies with another man, they shall be put to death". In the New Testament, Paul strongly preaches against homosexuals.

People misinterpret both, "BEING" gay is not a sin if it is not your fault, as are with other sins. "Practicing" homosexual intercourse is a choice, and God calls it an abomination. Having a homosexual "partner" is also a sin.

Everyone has their own "cross" to "bear" in life. This "cross" helps you grow spiritually, mentally, and physically as well. For some people, it is blindness. For others, it could be a physical or mental impairment. If you do not choose to be a homosexual, and you are for some reason IN WHICH ONLY HE KNOWS, follow God's Word! Humans are not worthy of God's Eternal Love, yet He Loves us still! If you are sorry for your sins, admit them to a Holy Father! God didn't create you to sin, he created you to Love and Obey Him by Free Will!

God Bless,
-Paladin

 

[ryynänen47]

It is not a choice to be gay, however, regardless to what you may think or say, God says it is a sin. And therefore, it is.

Most people misinterpret the Bible, my Order and I set the Truth into motion. In the Holy Bible, it says in the Old Testament: "If a man lies with another man, they shall be put to death". In the New Testament, Paul strongly preaches against homosexuals.

People misinterpret both, "BEING" gay is not a sin if it is not your fault, as are with other sins. "Practicing" homosexual intercourse is a choice, and God calls it an abomination. Having a homosexual "partner" is also a sin.

Everyone has their own "cross" to "bear" in life. This "cross" helps you grow spiritually, mentally, and physically as well. For some people, it is blindness. For others, it could be a physical or mental impairment. If you do not choose to be a homosexual, and you are for some reason IN WHICH ONLY HE KNOWS, follow God's Word! Humans are not worthy of God's Eternal Love, yet He Loves us still! If you are sorry for your sins, admit them to a Holy Father! God didn't create you to sin, he created you to Love and Obey Him by Free Will!

God Bless,
-Paladin

I'm new the the forums, so If I post wrongly, let me know.

See, I dont believe in the Bible; it is foreign and not of the ancestors. Should Biblical laws apply to me, an Heathen / follower of Asatru?

 

[free spirit]

Hello People

I do not want nor need your 'blessing' for my relationships; I do not think that is what the gay marriage debate is about. Marriage has NOT been always between a man and a woman. What I dont understand is how my relationship would affect yours. Legal gay marriage would not change how you feel about your spouse. It would not cheapen the vows you took or your commitment to your family. Why should we invent a new name? Why make it seperate?

BECAUSE IT IS DIFFERENT, MAN AND WOMEN HAS THE DOMAINE OF THAT WORD SIMPLE. WHY DO YOU WANT DESCRIBE YOUSELVES SAME AS. YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS DIFFERENT FULL STOP. YES IT WOULD NOT CHANGE MY FEELINGS TOWARDS MY WIFE. BUT THE WORD MARRIEGE HAS BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH A MAN AND A WOMEN FOR THE BEGINNING, IF YOU MAKE A NEW THING YOU GIVE IT A NEW NAME. WE CAN CALL IT A TRADEMARK AND GUY PEOPLE WANT TO USE MY TRADEMARK IT SHOULD NOT BE LEGAL. WOULD A DIFFERENT NAME MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO YOUR GAY RELATIONASHIP? Let say someone asks me who my son married now i say Mary Brown, but if the marriege word is also used for gay people gender specification become a must for you never know, you say that should not make any differece, yes it does. now empathise with me.

I dont expect you to think I'm 'normal', whatever that means. I understand you dont know how I feel. I guess I'm somewhat naive, I just wish people could understand and empathise on both sides of the issue.[/

I PERSONALLY THINK THAT IT IS A SIN, BUT WE ARE SURREONDED BY ALL KINDS OF SINS SO I HAVE TO LIVE IN THE MIDST OF IT, I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THAT, BUT IT BECOME AN ISSUE WHEN I SHOULD CONSIDER IT AS NORMAL AND SAME AS, YOU SHOULD BE FREE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE AS YOU WISH, TO MAKE IT AS SPECIAL AS YOU KNOW HOW BUT DO NOT CALL IT SAME AS, BECAUSE IT IS NOT. BUT I SUSPECT THAT GAYS WANT TO USE THAT WORD BECAUSE OF LEGITIMISING THE EVENT AS AN ACCEPTABLE RESPECTFULL ALTERNATIVE.

 

[Muffled]

Hey, I know we all dont agree 100% with everything in our religions but I have been thinking really long and hard about something that was discussed in church on Sunday, here is the news story: BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Kirk votes to back gay minister

According to the bible it is a sin for to be gay (I struggle with this as I dont believe people "choose" to be gay, I think it is the way they are and they would live a lie if they pretended not to be): Romans, Chapter 1 (King James Bible) - ChristianAnswers® WebBible™

Another reason I am struggling with this as I have a few cousins of mine who are openly gay (and I must say I am close to them so dont want to offend them in anyway by posing this question to them) and they attend church but according to my church they are living a lie, then again maybe I should just come right out and ask what their thoughts are.....

Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), does this mean that I am sinning as I'm not opposing my family members? As you will gather, although I have been thinking about it long and hard, I still havent drawn my conclusion yet as I dont feel it is my place to judge someone because of their sexuality as I am not judged on mine (well not that I know of).

Another church become apostate. The end of the world draws nearer every day.

You can expess your views but I doubt that it will be welcome.

Be glad you still have a church to go to that isn't apostate.

I would suggest that you won't be able to judge since you don't seem to have your own house securely in order yet.

 

[Muffled]

I'm new the the forums, so If I post wrongly, let me know.

See, I dont believe in the Bible; it is foreign and not of the ancestors. Should Biblical laws apply to me, an Heathen / follower of Asatru?

Biblical laws point to life. If you wish to have eternal life you will listen to them but the only way to be sure the laws fit your context is to be in contact with the author of those laws. Forinstance: sacrificing lambs has an old testament Jewish context but it would not be required of you but the question remains: How will you be sure that your sins are forgiven?

 

[Riverwolf]

There is nothing to discuss, I know that homosexuality goes egaist nuture as we know it...

The computer you're typing on is against nature more profoundly than homosexuality. The car you drive is against nature, and directly harms the planet.

Homosexuality is perfectly natural because certain people are born that way. Just like mental disorders (I don't consider homosexuality one) are natural, as are physical deformities. I'd also like to point out that sometimes other animals engage in homosexual acts.

 

[Riverwolf]

I dont expect you to think I'm 'normal', whatever that means.

Don't worry. "Normal" doesn't exist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We are supposed to love one another, not oppose one another. Of coarse loving someone includes not enabling them to follow a path that is self-destructive. There is debate among us mortals as to how self-destructive homosexuality is, as there are debates about idolatry – how does worshipping an idol hurt anyone? Or debates around humility – I mean doesn’t humility hurt our self-esteem? And there are debates around every single one of the things that God has suggested will lead to a better life. Satan is very cunning is confusing and hiding the real issues of things. Rationalizing away why all that God asks us is degrading and derogatory. The “sour grapes” principle, in Aesop’s fable, the wolf cannot get the grapes, so he tells himself and everyone else “they are sour”. The grapes are not sour, the wolf is the one who is sour.

There is a reason behind every commandment, and every commandment is there for our own good, our own well-being.

"How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg." - Lincoln, Abraham

Calling the grapes sour does not make them sour. There is better stuff out there to pursue than SSM - would you rob anyone of what is best by distracting them with imitations?

The analogy doesn't work. I don't know any gay or lesbian person who has made any sort of declaration that opposite-sex marriage isn't a valuable and valid thing for the people who enter into it.

Actually, I think your "sour grapes" analogy more appropriately applies to your position: you're the one who's denigrating something that you can't have and telling people that they shouldn't pursue it.

BTW - I noticed that you compared same-sex marriage and "idolatry"; is the next logical step to ban all religions but Christianity? All but the LDS Church? After all, it's wrong to "rob anyone of what is best by distracting them with imitations", right?

Most people misinterpret the Bible, my Order and I set the Truth into motion. In the Holy Bible, it says in the Old Testament: "If a man lies with another man, they shall be put to death". In the New Testament, Paul strongly preaches against homosexuals.

Paul also says that "all is permitted" and declares that the Old Law no longer applies to believers. He also admonishes people against judging others (though IMO he falls short of his own mark in that department). How does all this fit into your position?

 

[McBell]

There is nothing to discuss, I know that homosexuality goes egaist nuture as we know it, I know it is a sin to me and many others and apparently God agrees with that; so if man decide to decriminalise the practice, and honor it by calling it a marriage, to me is blasfemy.
Why? because marriage is between a man and a women, full stop.
I have no anemosity towards homosexuals at all, but they want me to bless and consider it normal, which it is not, no matter how well you beautify it. the sooner the guy community realise that, the sooner they would invent a new name for their union or relationship, for after all, you only want the next of kin rights, so you should get that without calling it a marriage, if you do, people like me will not rise any objection, end of story.

Ok then.
Now please be so kind as to present a legitimate LEGAL reason to ban same sex marriage.

So basically your whole rant, most of which is based upon false information and flat out lies, is about sharing the word marriage?

 

[free spirit]

Ok then.

Now please be so kind as to present a legitimate LEGAL reason to ban same sex marriage.

No I can not, because man makes it LEGAL or INLEGAL, like God makes it a sin or not, for we cannot change the way God is.

So basically your whole rant, most of which is based upon false information and flat out lies, is about sharing the word marriage?

You say, false informations and flat out lies: No my informations agrees with what is normal and perfect, your information is trumpet up, you may fill good about it but it's not what nature intended. So my rant as you call it is about keeping whats normal separate from what is abnormal, simple, then do what you like.

 

[rusra02]

Hey, I know we all dont agree 100% with everything in our religions but I have been thinking really long and hard about something that was discussed in church on Sunday, here is the news story: BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Kirk votes to back gay minister

According to the bible it is a sin for to be gay (I struggle with this as I dont believe people "choose" to be gay, I think it is the way they are and they would live a lie if they pretended not to be): Romans, Chapter 1 (King James Bible) - ChristianAnswers® WebBible™

Another reason I am struggling with this as I have a few cousins of mine who are openly gay (and I must say I am close to them so dont want to offend them in anyway by posing this question to them) and they attend church but according to my church they are living a lie, then again maybe I should just come right out and ask what their thoughts are.....

Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), does this mean that I am sinning as I'm not opposing my family members? As you will gather, although I have been thinking about it long and hard, I still havent drawn my conclusion yet as I dont feel it is my place to judge someone because of their sexuality as I am not judged on mine (well not that I know of).

The Bible clearly teaches homosexual acts are sins. (1 Cor.6:9,10). So is adultery,
theft, fornication, and drunkenness. An alcoholic can choose not to drink. Is being an alcoholic a sin? No, as mentioned in another post, it is an unfortunate effect of the sin we inherited from our first parents (Romans 5:12).
A man may desire a drink, but refuses to yield to temptation. A young person may be tempted to commit fornication, but refuses to yield to temptation. Persons who have homosexual tendencies can choose to act on these or not. (James 1:14,15)
False religions that misrepresent the Bible and condone homosexual conduct and other sins will answer for their sins. Jude 7 calls the attempted homosexual rape of Lot and his visitors as going out for "flesh for unnatural use." Homeosexual acts are against the natural use of the reproductive powers. (Romans 1:26,27)
As with other sins, God will not change his standards to suit us. Former homosexuals in the 1st century changed and were accepted by God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) The same is true today. We may not approve of what a person does, but we can still show love and concern for that person. As mentioned, it is not our place to judge others. However, this does not mean we condone or approve of conduct clearly condemned in the Bible. But we can love the person while hating the sin.
Hope this helps.

 

[ryynänen47]

Biblical laws point to life. If you wish to have eternal life you will listen to them but the only way to be sure the laws fit your context is to be in contact with the author of those laws. Forinstance: sacrificing lambs has an old testament Jewish context but it would not be required of you but the question remains: How will you be sure that your sins are forgiven?

Hello

Again, the Bible has no bearing on how I live. I'm not a Jew nor a Christian. As I stated earlier, my religion is Asatru. I already have eternal life, since I believe the soul/spirit is energy and can not be destroyed, but transformed.

I dont believe in 'sin', original or otherwise. When I do something wrong, I own up to it like an adult and make reparations and/or apologise to the person I wronged. I believe my actions affect people, not gods. I dont believe my puny actions affect a being which can create galaxies with its thoughts. I'm not perfect; I make mistakes like anyone else. The thing to do is to learn from the experience and try not to repeat it.

I strive to uphold the Nine Noble Virtues of my religion and my honour. That is my challenge.

I like cats, :bkcat:


Ryynänen47

 

[Quagmire]

There is nothing to discuss,

Oh I'd say there's much to discuss; I was trying to make the point that the underlying motives many religious people have for adopting a hostile stance in regards to homosexuality are personal, that they have nothing to do with religious conviction of moral belief.

All through this thread and some other threads you've been trying to make the case that your only objection to homosexuality is based on your religious beliefs and concern for the people in question.

Then, the other night, you blurted this out;

Hmm, still no answer.....

My childood did not last forever the first homosexual got to play with my family jewels in a crowded bus I just froze but my *edit* was aroused ufter that i knew better. think what you like all the others were after the same thing but i would not hang around to find out, do you blame me, yes i got a phobia, i would not trust any of you *edit*.
The world would not miss anything if there were no *edit*.
SO GIVE ME A SINGLE REASON WHY I SHOULD NOT THING THE WHY I DO.
WITHOUT REFERING TO RELIGION NOW.

Proving my point, ie., your own attitude in regards to this issue has nothing to do with religious conviction, moral belief, review of the scientific evidence, and certainly not any kind of concern for homosexuals themselves but is rather a personal, emotional reaction to an incident in your own history that you haven't successfully dealt with.

It's a trauma-induced phobia that you've attempted to hide from yourself by dressing it up as a religious conviction, etc.

Your attitude towards homosexuality/homosexuals isn't based on love, as you claim, it's based on fear (as you've demonstrated).

 

[Quagmire]

I have no anemosity towards homosexuals at all,

anybody want to guess what the quote below said before the edits?

i would not trust any of you *edit*.
The world would not miss anything if there were no *edit*.

 

[free spirit]

anybody want to guess what the quote below said before the edits?

Yes at that point i wanted to be nasty, i am no perfect yet you know.
But you all were having a field day with me. But as a Christian i admit that was not the right response.

 

[Quagmire]

You're skipping posts again (funny how you always seem to miss the ones that use the quote I used).

Yes at that point i wanted to be nasty, i am no perfect yet you know.
But you all were having a field day with me. But as a Christian i admit that was not the right response.

I already told you why that excuse doesn't work in this particular instance.

While we're at it, lets see you explain that this post isn't fear-inspired either;

Originally Posted by free spirit
Yes homosexuality and paedophilia has become a pandemic, no one is safe, let us find an untidote, it is humanity only hope.

Unless this is some weird new interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Riverwolf]

Ok then.

No I can not, because man makes it LEGAL or INLEGAL, like God makes it a sin or not, for we cannot change the way God is.


You say, false informations and flat out lies: No my informations agrees with what is normal and perfect, your information is trumpet up, you may fill good about it but it's not what nature intended. So my rant as you call it is about keeping whats normal separate from what is abnormal, simple, then do what you like.

If homosexuality were not what nature intended, how do you explain this:

BBC NEWS | Europe | 'Gay penguins' rear adopted chick

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes at that point i wanted to be nasty, i am no perfect yet you know.
But you all were having a field day with me. But as a Christian i admit that was not the right response.

You think we LIKE having to tell you all this?!

Let me tell you, I personally would rather go play video games than read through your rants and respond to them.

 

[free spirit]

The computer you're typing on is against nature more profoundly than homosexuality. The car you drive is against nature, and directly harms the planet.

Yes and we created them

Homosexuality is perfectly natural because certain people are born that way. Just like mental disorders (I don't consider homosexuality one) are natural, as are physical deformities.

You say "Natural because he is born that way," nature makes mistakes all the time, children are born with all kinds of abormalities.

I'd also like to point out that sometimes other animals engage in homosexual acts.

Animals also can change gender at will to reproduce. but we are above animals, or are we not. A cople of times i happen to see dogs hugging a leg of a person, and been very amorous like, they are confused they are animals after all.

 

[free spirit]

You're skipping posts again (funny how you always seem to miss the ones that use the quote I used).



I already told you why that excuse doesn't work in this particular instance.

While we're at it, lets see you explain that this post isn't fear-inspired either;



Unless this is some weird new interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount.

can't you see the melodrama, i thought it was a good punch line, like "I only want to get married i am no hurting anyone"