Struggling to come to terms with something I have read in the bible.

[Dirty Penguin]

"The rejection of homosexual behavior that is found in the Old Testament is well known. In Genesis 19, two angels in disguise visit the city of Sodom and are offered hospitality and shelter by Lot. During the night, the men of Sodom demand that Lot hand over his guests for homosexual intercourse. Lot refuses, and the angels blind the men of Sodom. Lot and his household escape, and the town is destroyed by fire "because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord" (Gen. 19:13)."

"Homosexual desires, however, are not in themselves sinful. People are subject to a wide variety of sinful desires over which they have little direct control, but these do not become sinful until a person acts upon them, either by acting out the desire or by encouraging the desire and deliberately engaging in fantasies about acting it out. People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner."

are they acting upon these desires?

Ok...I sorta understand but can you help me in the meaning of the story in Gen. 9:21-25?

The only thing the bible says Ham did was went out to tell his brothers and they walked in backward with a covering to cover their father and they did this not to gaze upon his naked body. The father woke up...but all the bible says is that he was made aware of what Ham had done (or had done unto him)....????.....If all he did was see his father's naked body and told others then why was he cursed.....unless he had thoughts about doing some thing....or maybe the bible is silent and he actually did do something.....ewwww......

 

[Riverwolf]

I do believe 100% of what my religion teaches. My religion is what I believe at any moment of time. If find that my views are wrong I change them. My Hindu teacher says except the teaching of Hinduism, but cut off the head and tail. This means for the people who eat fish. ( Both me and my tradition do not ) Except the parts that you find useful and throw the rest away, only eat the parts that are tasty. This is my simplistic view of faith.

Accept, not except. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

Ok...I sorta understand but can you help me in the meaning of the story in Gen. 9:21-25?

The only thing the bible says Ham did was went out to tell his brothers and they walked in backward with a covering to cover their father and they did this not to gaze upon his naked body. The father woke up...but all the bible says is that he was made aware of what Ham had done (or had done unto him)....????.....If all he did was see his father's naked body and told others then why was he cursed.....unless he had thoughts about doing some thing....or maybe the bible is silent and he actually did do something.....ewwww......

I think it was that he saw his father naked, did nothing to cover it up, and pretty much laugh at it.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

"The rejection of homosexual behavior that is found in the Old Testament is well known. In Genesis 19, two angels in disguise visit the city of Sodom and are offered hospitality and shelter by Lot. During the night, the men of Sodom demand that Lot hand over his guests for homosexual intercourse. Lot refuses, and the angels blind the men of Sodom. Lot and his household escape, and the town is destroyed by fire "because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord" (Gen. 19:13)."

This seems to be a more modern view of Sodom.

As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.
Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

Ezekiel 16:48-50 (New International Version)


The Jewish Encyclopedia has said that the people of Sodom are guilty of many sins and just all around bad behavior. Some of the Rabbinic texts teach that the Sodomites also committed economic crimes like blasphemy and bloodshed. They seemed to give money to beggars, after putting their names on the Gold, then they refusing to sell the poor food. The stranger would always end up starving death, then the sodomites who gave the money in the first place, would get it back.

Even Jude 1:7

In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Jude 1:7 (New International Version)

May or may not be talking about being Gay. Could mean animals or just Hot new girls. Who knows ?

 

[free spirit]

to ryynanen47

if i'm saying this in the wrong way or in the wrong place, let me know.

Free spirit, i am truly sorry about what happened with you when you were a child. No one has a right to molest anyone, especially the most vulnerable. Personally, i believe anyone who would harm a child should die, full stop.

don't be sorry only apened once it lasted two minuts and was in a crouded bus but i froze, that was the first time that a homosexual had put a hand on me, so was not a big deel, other times i was able to get away. But quagmire true to his forum name is looking for what is not there.

i can relate with being afraid and having a bad childhood. I was abused, terrorised and isolated as a child and developed did as a result. I found a good therapist who helped me understand what i was experiencing and how to live with this condition.

sorry to hear that, i do not know what did is, but obviously has affected your life.
how did you tourned out, are you stright or guy, and if guy was the abuses of that nature. If yes do you blame the abuser for that, or do you think you were born guy.

one of the reasons why i pursued spirituality is that i wanted answers to questions that seemed no person could answer. I thought that if i could find god and speak with him, maybe i could understand what the hell was going on. Why were these things happening to me....

i just went to church at chrismas time and not avery years, and at funerals, and weddings i was not a religious person at all, but at the back of my mind i allways belived that there was a god, then at the age of 36, therty years ago at the request of my wife a visited a pentecostal church, and there the lord blessed me, he did it all, he opened my mind to understand the acriptures, up to that point i did not even own a bible, the bible tells you what you already know, because you know what is sin, regardeless if you know what is written in it or not, like we do not have to study law to live a righteous life, it is allready in us. I came to this forum hopeing to share the truth of the scriptures, but i found a brick wall they (guy people) just have no idea of what awaits them, non whatsohaver. Sorry but i did my best, it's time for me to talk with those that can teach me something or perhaps i can help.

if i have offend you or anyone here, i apologise.

they seem to be allergic to scriptures that are specific about the sin of homosexuality, if you do not mention them they will love you boots and all.


ryynänen47

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), . . . ."

I am curious WHY you seem willing to abandon your own reason and your own idea of right and wrong and accept some ancient myth recorded in a book.

Why do you consider yourself incapable of making correct moral decisions?:thud:

 

[Enlighten]

I do believe 100% of what my religion teaches. My religion is what I believe at any moment of time. If find that my views are wrong I change them. My Hindu teacher says except the teaching of Hinduism, but cut off the head and tail. This means for the people who eat fish. ( Both me and my tradition do not ) Except the parts that you find useful and throw the rest away, only eat the parts that are tasty. This is my simplistic view of faith.

I think I has been mis-interpreted in the line you quoted and quite rightly so, now I have read it back.

I was meaning (through reading posts on the forum) that not everyone (some do, some don't) believe 100% in their religion. And the reason for my post is I've never felt this struggle before between my faith but through the post many people's posts have helped me realise that my faith doesn't need or ask me to choose between my religion and my family, so thanks to all who have helped me see this. As an update I have spoken with the people at church who tried to lead me on the "rocky", finger pointing road, believe it or not... they have come to our (everyone who has helped me) way of thinking! SO BIG THANKS AGAIN TO ALL! (You know who you are!!):bow:

 

[Storm]

Fantastic!

 

[gzusfrk]

"Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), . . . ."

I am curious WHY you seem willing to abandon your own reason and your own idea of right and wrong and accept some ancient myth recorded in a book.

Why do you consider yourself incapable of making correct moral decisions?:thud:

Well if you would look into it more you would find out it is not a myth,The vulgate was real, so are the scrolls from 2000 years ago,and whos definition of "correct" are we going to use,and I have not abandon my own reason,I just came to realise my reason was incorrect so I changed them.

 

[Enlighten]

"Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), . . . ."

I am curious WHY you seem willing to abandon your own reason and your own idea of right and wrong and accept some ancient myth recorded in a book.

Why do you consider yourself incapable of making correct moral decisions?:thud:

Where do you get that I'm abandoning anything?

ha ha, all I can say is seems to me like you just wanted to post something for the sake of it without any input?? :yes: If I really did feel incapable of making a decision in life I am the type of person who will actually say "I am incapable of making a decision".

You should see in this post that I knew what I was being told went against my morals and that I wasnt quite sure how to tackle the issue.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"You should see in this post that I knew what I was being told went against my morals and that I wasnt quite sure how to tackle the issue."

And WHY were you unsure?

 

[Enlighten]

"You should see in this post that I knew what I was being told went against my morals and that I wasnt quite sure how to tackle the issue."

And WHY were you unsure?

ha ha ha! Are you 100% sure in every action or word you say?

 

[McBell]

ha ha ha! Are you 100% sure in every action or word you say?

you did not answer the question...

 

[Enlighten]

you did not answer the question...

ha ha ha, in your opinion...... the answer is within the question.....

 

[McBell]

ha ha ha, in your opinion...... the answer is within the question.....

So you are not going to answer it then.
You could have just said as much.

 

[Enlighten]

So you are not going to answer it then.
You could have just said as much.

If you read my question and use some thought you will see the answer is within...... talking about banging my head against a brick wall :thud:

 

[starlite]

I have it from a fairly reliable source that Christ Himself never said a word against homosexulaity.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 18:22[/FONT]​

“‘[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.”[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 20:13 [/FONT]​

“‘[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Since Jesus was a Jew he would have known and supported God's view of homosexuality.[/FONT]​

​

 

[Storm]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Since Jesus was a Jew he would have known and supported God's view of homosexuality.[/FONT]

Like He supported the dietary laws? :sarcastic

 

[Azakel]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 18:22[/FONT]​

“‘[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.”[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 20:13 [/FONT]​

“‘[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?[/FONT]​

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Since Jesus was a Jew he would have known and supported God's view of homosexuality.[/FONT]​

​

Umm...no. Leviticus is from the Torah, you Christians call it the Old Testament. There is no Jesus there. So no, Jesus did say anything. Next time try using the NT for anything Jesus says quotes.

 

[blueman]

Hey, I know we all dont agree 100% with everything in our religions but I have been thinking really long and hard about something that was discussed in church on Sunday, here is the news story: BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Kirk votes to back gay minister

According to the bible it is a sin for to be gay (I struggle with this as I dont believe people "choose" to be gay, I think it is the way they are and they would live a lie if they pretended not to be): Romans, Chapter 1 (King James Bible) - ChristianAnswers® WebBible™

Another reason I am struggling with this as I have a few cousins of mine who are openly gay (and I must say I am close to them so dont want to offend them in anyway by posing this question to them) and they attend church but according to my church they are living a lie, then again maybe I should just come right out and ask what their thoughts are.....

Anyway I would be interested to know what both christians and non-christians think about this dilema (well to me it is a dilema), does this mean that I am sinning as I'm not opposing my family members? As you will gather, although I have been thinking about it long and hard, I still havent drawn my conclusion yet as I dont feel it is my place to judge someone because of their sexuality as I am not judged on mine (well not that I know of).

God asked us to love another. We are made in the image of God and God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. I don't agree with you assessment that homosexuals are born that way. By doing so, you imply that God creates gay individuals which would make Him out to be a liar based on His stance towards homosexuality. I think everyone makes a choice regarding their sexual preference. I may not agree with that lifestyle, but that is one's choice and I will love them in spite of my disagreement with it.