Students Are Pushing Back Against Gender Ideology In Their Schools

[We Never Know]

Yeah, I don't accept your construct of sex. I use another one.

Well you do you. I will stick with all mammals have an XY chromosomal sex determining system.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well you do you. I will stick with all mammals have an XY chromosomal sex determining system.

Yeah and a science site says that there is another defintion:

Sex & Gender

What are Sex & Gender? And why do they matter in health research? Understanding sex and gender is critical to understanding human health and disease.

orwh.od.nih.gov

"...
Sex
Sex is a multidimensional biological construct based on anatomy, physiology, genetics, and hormones. (These components are sometimes referred to together as “sex traits.”)[2] All animals (including humans) have a sex. As is common across health research communities, NIH usually categorizes sex as male or female, although variations do occur. These variations are called differences in sex development (DSD) or intersex conditions.[3] ..."

 

[We Never Know]

Not everyone accepts medicine.

So?

I mean, seriously, you're not really making an argument, nor a cogent response to what I have said.

Except it's almost completely useless, because it has no relation to how we interact, what modes of address we use, and cannot be verified in any circumstance that isn't a literal genetic examination.

And it's not consistent with science. Science has understood that biological sex is more complicated than a simple binary classification for decades. You're just drawing an arbitrary line.


We have an alternative, and it's the one we're literally all already using - including you - and it's the one science has understood for decades. We use the SOCIAL CONSTRUCT of gender.

You said...
"We use the SOCIAL CONSTRUCT of gender"


Not everyone will accept that. That was the point.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You said...
"We use the SOCIAL CONSTRUCT of gender"


Not everyone will accept that. That was the point.

Not everyone will accept that not everyone will accept that.

Congratulations, you have added nothing.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You said...
"We use the SOCIAL CONSTRUCT of gender"


Not everyone will accept that. That was the point.

Yeah, you really don't get it, do you? You complain that we use constructs, but you do too. Can we agree on we all use constructs?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The definition of male as those with a Y chromosome is cogent, unambiguous and comports with the NIH definition and with science. It doesn't impugn anyone nor discriminate against anyone. In contrast others want to abolish any precise definition without putting forth an alternative. The "jerks" are those that prefer chaos to clarity.

They aren't insisting an AIS woman is a man. That is all you. And that is hiw you are trying to bend science to justify being a jerk. Those authors aren't so dumb they think everyone knows their chromosomes, amd certainly they wouldn't be insisting that's reason enough to deliberately misgender people. Again, that's you. They also aren't so dumb they try to define all humanity by either XX or XY. That's you because the authors know better and know not all humans fall into one of those two.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

They aren't insisting an AIS woman is a man. That is all you. And that is hiw you are trying to bend science to justify being a jerk. Those authors aren't so dumb they think everyone knows their chromosomes, amd certainly they wouldn't be insisting that's reason enough to deliberately misgender people. Again, that's you. They also aren't so dumb they try to define all humanity by either XX or XY. That's you because the authors know better and know not all humans fall into one of those two.

Just for the fun of it, from the NIH:
"

Sex​

Sex is a multidimensional biological construct based on anatomy, physiology, genetics, and hormones. (These components are sometimes referred to together as “sex traits.”)[2] All animals (including humans) have a sex. As is common across health research communities, NIH usually categorizes sex as male or female, although variations do occur. These variations are called differences in sex development (DSD) or intersex conditions.[3] "

Sex & Gender

What are Sex & Gender? And why do they matter in health research? Understanding sex and gender is critical to understanding human health and disease.

orwh.od.nih.gov

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nobody should be denied medical treatment, and nobody is arguing against this

You are.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"psychiatric disorders is hella vague"

Its a broad topic.....

"psychiatric disorder, aka mental disorder, aka mental illness.
-a wide range of conditions that affect mood, thinking, and behavior.

Yeah, it's rather useless in that context. Depression is common from being expected to be one thing while we gravitate towards the other, and from the way people treat us, and a mourning over what we can't have (nit much different from depression over me being born with bowed shins amd all the physical and mental pain that has caused), but to use such a broad term is useless and meaningless in that context as that can include Cotards Syndrome, Alien Hand Syndrome or Capgras Syndrome.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

"psychiatric disorders is hella vague"

Its a broad topic.....

"psychiatric disorder, aka mental disorder, aka mental illness.
-a wide range of conditions that affect mood, thinking, and behavior.

Well, the history of that field is maybe not as much objective science as you believe it to be.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You said...
"We use the SOCIAL CONSTRUCT of gender"


Not everyone will accept that. That was the point.

And yet everyone does do that. Chances are we've all met someone who is intersexed, trans or of a chromosomal variance and we had no idea so we went by the socially constructed gender queus we observed.
But that's overall how we function. We don't take in much of the world around us and oir brains just skim through the info, making on assumptions based on the little our brains do take in.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, the history of that field is maybe not as much objective science as you believe it to be.

I've never understood why people single out psychology for that but not internal medicine. Psychology is an infant compared to other fields in medicine and science and physicians themselves used to practice and believe some looney, wacky things (of course that's from our perspective because from their perspective it was to their best knowledge).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Dogs with anything other than 4 legs are deformed. How about this; dogs have 4 legs unless they are deformed. Good enough?

No. There's no reason to use inferiority as a definition.
Why not consider what I'm saying? Don't use hard determinations to define a human because we won't all fit, and do use inclusive wording that acknowledges upfront that variation occurs. That's not saying someone is deformes or inferior. It just means they are different (and losing a leg didn't slow down the St. Bernhard I knew).

 

[We Never Know]

And yet everyone does do that. Chances are we've all met someone who is intersexed, trans or of a chromosomal variance and we had no idea so we went by the socially constructed gender queus we observed.
But that's overall how we function. We don't take in much of the world around us and oir brains just skim through the info, making on assumptions based on the little our brains do take in.

"And yet everyone does do that"

If everyone accepted the social construct of gender there wouldn't be all the bathroom, pronoun, etc stuff going on all the time.

 

[We Never Know]

Not everyone will accept that not everyone will accept that.

Congratulations, you have added nothing.

I don't accept your response

 

[We Never Know]

Treated the same as anyone else; no special treatments

Bathrooms are based on your biology, not gender.

Nobody should be denied medical treatment, and nobody is arguing against this

Nobody should be bullied, and nobody is arguing for this

Here's an ideal...

At birth lets stop assigning sex because it may not match their gender.

Lets also stop naming them with male and female names because again it may not match their gender.

When they are five, let them pick their sex/gender and name.

No one is mislabeled. Problem solved

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"And yet everyone does do that"

If everyone accepted the social construct of gender there wouldn't be all the bathroom, pronoun, etc stuff going on all the time.

Everyone does accept it. They may not consciously acknowledge it but unconsciously it's just how we function. Our brains take every shortcut it can and if it can ignore something it will probably will. To our brains, if the eyes take in something that registers as female or male that's all our brain will take in unless probed deeper.
It also accepted as this is how intersexed and those with chromosome variations have always been considered male or female despite any hidden genotypes that the individual may not even be aware of.

 

[We Never Know]

Everyone does accept it. They may not consciously acknowledge it but unconsciously it's just how we function. Our brains take every shortcut it can and if it can ignore something it will probably will. To our brains, if the eyes take in something that registers as female or male that's all our brain will take in unless probed deeper.
It also accepted as this is how intersexed and those with chromosome variations have always been considered male or female despite any hidden genotypes that the individual may not even be aware of.

You aren't everyone. If everyone accepted it this thread wouldnt be here.

 

[Kfox]

I didn't say it was the "only" reason. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I wasn’t putting words in your mouth, you asked why did I exclude intersex; I was trying to tell you. So care to answer my question?

Nope. Because those people are referring to gender, not sex. Again, you're confusing the two. We're talking ONLY about biological sex, here. A person can be non-binary regardless of their biological sex.

Did you forget the question? Again; how would biological sex be different if it were binary instead of bimodal.

I can't have a reasonable debate with you if you're just going to ignore reality, and the overwhelming consensus of biologists, and assert that something that is demonstrably very complex is actually very simple. I can't really help you if you're determined to stick to an elementary school understanding of biology rather than being willing to consider that it may be just a bit more complicated than that.

Here is a link that seems to agree with me.

Chromosome: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Chromosomes are structures found in the center (nucleus) of cells that carry long pieces of DNA. DNA is the material that holds genes. It is the building block of the human body.

medlineplus.gov

 

[Kfox]

Our discussion is based on how you would feel if people were purposely using different pronouns to refer to you. Your counter was that you wouldn't know. The example I gave was to demonstrate that in conversion, you do hear the gendered language people use for you.

Okay; if someone were referring to me as a she when speaking to someone else, I would explain to them I am male. If they believe I am a biological female and they were addressing my biology rather than my gender, I would tell them my biology and my gender are the same. If they continued to refer to me that way, I would consider them rude, but there is nothing I could do about it; other than refrain from taking to them