Students Are Pushing Back Against Gender Ideology In Their Schools

[Copernicus]

With 100 different genders and pronouns to match, how do you keep track?

Where did you come up with that number? Usually, this is just about people choosing to be referred to as male or female. I would advocate for more gender-neutral pronoun usage where it makes sense.

 

[Kfox]

100?

A quick Wikipedia search; don't know if it's a hundred, but you gotta admit; it's an awful lot.

List of gender identities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kfox]

Where did you come up with that number?

Okay; not quite 100 but pretty darn close!

81 Types of Genders & Gender Identities (A to Z List)

Examples of genders include male, female, transgender, cisgender, and gender non-conforming. We live in a world where gender identity is increasingly considered a cultural construct and fluid concept. And in fact, if we move beyond

helpfulprofessor.com

Usually, this is just about people choosing to be referred to as male or female. I would advocate for more gender-neutral pronoun usage where it makes sense.

So how would you deal with pronouns like Ze, Xi, Ci, and countless other pronouns? Does all of this make sense?

 

[F1fan]

List of gender identities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So how would you deal with pronouns like Ze, Xi, Ci, and countless other pronouns? Does all of this make sense?

I just don't understand why this is a problem for those who are fine with their biological category. I'm male, and I'm fine with that. I don't have any problem with how others categorize themselves or for what reasons. Is there a reason I should have a problem with these folks?

 

[Shaul]

Utter nonsense. I have never done a genetic test on someone before knowing how to refer to them.

A person's gender is an objective fact. Whether you are able to discern their gender doesn't change it. Most people in most cases can and do discern a person's gender correctly. Your post was silly in the extreme. People have been able to identify the gender of other people long before there was any genetic testing nor even knowing about genetics. Don't be glib.

 

[Shaul]

That's what you say, but I see no reason you wouldn't see me as female as so many others do. Seriously, even working on my car people just see me as a girl. It's how I learned there is a literal male gaze when men look at you like a piece of meat.

It isn't "what I say". It is an objective definition. The definition holds irrespective of intentional or unintentional occasional wrong identifications done by some individuals.

 

[Copernicus]

A person's gender is an objective fact. Whether you are able to discern their gender doesn't change it. Most people in most cases can and do discern a person's gender correctly. Your post was silly in the extreme. People have been able to identify the gender of other people long before there was any genetic testing nor even knowing about genetics. Don't be glib.

Not true. People have been born with both male and female features throughout history. For example, what gender do you think General Casimir Pulaski was? He identified as male publicly, but he also had biological female characteristics.

 

[Shaul]

Not true. People have been born with both male and female features throughout history. For example, what gender do you think General Casimir Pulaski was? He identified as male publicly, but he also had biological female characteristics.

No, what I wrote is quite true. The facial or other expressions don't change the definition or classification. Abnormal expression of an individual with characteristics usually found in members of the other gender doesn't negate the classification.

 

[Kfox]

I just don't understand why this is a problem for those who are fine with their biological category. I'm male, and I'm fine with that. I don't have any problem with how others categorize themselves or for what reasons.

The problem is not how they categorize themselves, the problem is when you have to categorize them the way they categorize themselves. With nearly a hundred different categories, how do you keep track?

 

[F1fan]

The problem is not how they categorize themselves, the problem is when you have to categorize them the way they categorize themselves. With nearly a hundred different categories, how do you keep track?

The same way you keep track of names. Do you have a problem with your memory?

 

[SomeRandom]

Not true. People have been born with both male and female features throughout history. For example, what gender do you think General Casimir Pulaski was? He identified as male publicly, but he also had biological female characteristics.

Out of curiosity I googled to see what famous people have been intersex or hermaphrodites.
Quite an interesting list.
Didn’t realise ambiguous genitalia at birth was as common (estimated to be 1 in 2,000)

Pictures of Hermaphrodites and Famous Examples in History - TSMP Medical Blog

hermaphrodite human pictures

www.tsmp.com.au

 

[Copernicus]

Okay; not quite 100 but pretty darn close!

81 Types of Genders & Gender Identities (A to Z List)

Examples of genders include male, female, transgender, cisgender, and gender non-conforming. We live in a world where gender identity is increasingly considered a cultural construct and fluid concept. And in fact, if we move beyond

helpfulprofessor.com

So how would you deal with pronouns like Ze, Xi, Ci, and countless other pronouns? Does all of this make sense?

It makes perfect sense, especially to a linguist like me. If you actually read the article and understood what it was trying to say, rather than use it to create the false impression that anyone at all thinks there are 81 different genders, then you ought to know that. The author is quite clear about this, so I don't know how you missed it. Most of the article is about gender classifications in individual foreign languages and cultures, not English or the culture in which this thread is embedded. It has nothing at all to do with pronouns. The object is just to show that, throughout history, human beings have constructed different ways to refer to gender, most of which do not conform to English usage. I suggest that we not stray off topic, although the article is an interesting result from research done by one education professor.

 

[Copernicus]

No, what I wrote is quite true. The facial or other expressions don't change the definition or classification. Abnormal expression of an individual with characteristics usually found in members of the other gender doesn't negate the classification.

It most certainly does call traditional gender classification into question. I'm not too surprise that you dodged my question. What gender would you call Casimir Pulaski? Male or female? We don't know a lot about his private life, but there are some historical references to a possible male lover. His condition was rare, SomeRandom's post above gives a list of famous examples (Pictures of Hermaphrodites and Famous Examples in History - TSMP Medical Blog - TSMP Medical Blog).

Also, see:

Revolutionary War hero Casimir Pulaski might have been a woman or intersex​

 

[We Never Know]

A quick Wikipedia search; don't know if it's a hundred, but you gotta admit; it's an awful lot.

List of gender identities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

109 from that link lol. But seems most are just different nicknames.

 

[Copernicus]

109 from that link lol. But seems most are just different nicknames.

Yes. Those are just terms that people have compiled for different categories of gender identity, some of which are synonymous or used in special literature. They are not really "nicknames" or pejorative labels. Words like "lesbian" and "gay" are not even in this list. They are not part of some liberal movement to force people to pick a category to be in. Again, this has nothing to do with pronouns or school education. The list per se is not associated with any political movement. It is just a list of words that is explained at the top of the Wikipedia article:

This is a list of gender identities. Gender identity can be understood to include how people describe, present, and feel about themselves.​

​

Time to take a breath and calm down.

 

[SomeRandom]

It makes perfect sense, especially to a linguist like me. If you actually read the article and understood what it was trying to say, rather than use it to create the false impression that anyone at all thinks there are 81 different genders, then you ought to know that. The author is quite clear about this, so I don't know how you missed it. Most of the article is about gender classifications in individual foreign languages and cultures, not English or the culture in which this thread is embedded. It has nothing at all to do with pronouns. The object is just to show that, throughout history, human beings have constructed different ways to refer to gender, most of which do not conform to English usage. I suggest that we not stray off topic, although the article is an interesting result from research done by one education professor.

Lol as someone who is somewhat bilingual (I didn’t learn my mother’s maiden language very well. Just lazy really lol) I instinctively kind of roll my eyes whenever I hear about the X number of supposed gender pronouns.
Because it’s damned easy in the English language, compared to other languages. Including my mother’s maiden tongue (Fijian Hindi.)
My involuntary response is usually, “omg, spoiled much.”
I don’t mean to react that way, just an odd consequence of comparing languages I suppose lol

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It isn't "what I say". It is an objective definition. The definition holds irrespective of intentional or unintentional occasional wrong identifications done by some individuals.

It's not an objective definition because nature did not give us something black and white. There's many genetic variations and conditions that confuse things and even flip conventions entirely around.
And it's not objective as a strict female/male dichotomy are not universally found. If it were that concrete and definite we would find this as universal as several facial expressions that are recognized by people throughout all cultures and times.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lol as someone who is somewhat bilingual (I didn’t learn my mother’s maiden language very well. Just lazy really lol) I instinctively kind of roll my eyes whenever I hear about the X number of supposed gender pronouns.
Because it’s damned easy in the English language, compared to other languages. Including my mother’s maiden tongue (Fijian Hindi.)
My involuntary response is usually, “omg, spoiled much.”
I don’t mean to react that way, just an odd consequence of comparing languages I suppose lol

Learning other languages does tend to shatter many preconceived views of the world and give us new ways to see things amd think about them.
Unfortunately America isn't too fond of language learning and won't even learn English that well, let alone a different language.

 

[SomeRandom]

Learning other languages does tend to shatter many preconceived views of the world and give us new ways to see things amd think about them.

That is actually pretty true.
Like for example growing up, I had to constantly kind of translate my culture and my language to my friends. Many of whom were bilingual themselves, now that I think about it. Many had immigrant parent/s like myself.
That kind of puts things in perspective a bit. Because you’re just introduced to all these differing concepts about etiquette, relationships and social decorum among other things. So you’re kind of balancing two very different concepts of acceptable behaviour and even language
For instance in Indian culture it’s just polite to refer to all of one’s elders as aunt/uncle, mum/dad and for the very elderly grandmother/grandfather. So I was constantly jumping back and forth between saying aunt and uncle and sir and ma’am, due to the manners I learnt growing up lol

Unfortunately America isn't too fond of language learning and won't even learn English that well, let alone a different language.

Lol try Australianese. Pretty sure it’s a requirement to be drunk in order to speak the dialect properly

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lol try Australianese. Pretty sure it’s a requirement to be drunk in order to speak the dialect properly

Yeah, you've all got me beat there. I can't even drink enough to do a good German hauch and schlur it all together to move beyond having "very American" German to having a proper German sounding German.
Australianese? I can hear my liver begging and pleading please no.