Suppression of Free Speech on Covid

[Soandso]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372 this one is really telling because the authors were forced to reject their information to save their jobs. Is not the only case of such redaction where the data clearly shows inefficiency.

https://highlanderjuan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/John-Hardie-Why-Face-Masks-Dont-Work.pdf this is an archive pdf because once we changed from science to politics it was removed. They literally started it was removed due to the cultural climate, welcome to postmodern science.

Are Face Masks Effective? The Evidence.

An overview of the current evidence regarding the effectiveness of face masks.

swprs.org

A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers | BMJ Open

"Exercise with facemask; Are we handling a devil's sword?" - A physiological hypothesis - PubMed

Straying away from a sedentary lifestyle is essential, especially in these troubled times of a global pandemic to reverse the ill effects associated with the health risks as mentioned earlier. In the view of anticipated effects on immune system and prevention against influenza and Covid-19...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Respiratory consequences of N95-type Mask usage in pregnant healthcare workers-a controlled clinical study - PubMed

The study was registered at clinicaltrials.gov, identifier NCT00265926.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses. Part 1 - Face masks, eye protection and person distancing: systematic review and meta-analysis

OBJECTIVE To examine the effectiveness of eye protection, face masks, or person distancing on interrupting or reducing the spread of respiratory viruses. DESIGN Update of a Cochrane review that included a meta-analysis of observational studies during the SARS outbreak of 2003. DATA SOURCES...

www.medrxiv.org

Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: a randomized controlled trial - PubMed

Face mask use in health care workers has not been demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds. A larger study is needed to definitively establish noninferiority of no mask use.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Adverse Effects of Prolonged Mask Use among Healthcare Professionals during COVID-19

In March 2020, New York City encountered its first official case of COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019). This novel coronavirus, referred to as SARS-COV 2, originated in Wuhan, China in December 2019. Within a short amount of time, hundreds of thousands of cases were diagnosed around the world...

clinmedjournals.org

Thanks for taking the time to hunt these down for me! When I get the chance I'll look through em

 

[1137]

Thanks for taking the time to hunt these down for me! When I get the chance I'll look through em

Don't get me wrong, I'd be more inclined to say the conclusion on masks is inconclusive, I'm not in the medical industry. But that we worked so hard to silence half the data for political reasons is the real problem, as well as mandating something so inconclusive.

 

[SomeRandom]

Understand the skepticism but I think it is pretty well known and documented in the US

More Texas Parents Find Pornographic Books in Their Children’s School Libraries - Texas Scorecard

“Newspapers can’t print this material, and you’d be arrested if you gave it to a child on the street. So, why is this in our children's library?”

texasscorecard.com

Mother reveals books in school libraries depicting child porn and pedophilia

A mother in Fairfax County called out the school board for indirectly making accessible to students two books featuring child pornography and pedophilia.

alphanews.org

11-year-old reads aloud from ‘pornographic’ book he checked out from library at school board meeting

An 11-year-old in Maine spoke out against “pornographic” content in his middle school and wants the administrators to be prosecuted.

nypost.com

WHAT IF?

What if school libraries was about enriching the mind in science, math, literary greats, great men and women autobigraphies, logic and other things that had to do with education?

I appreciate the links. My apologies, for not going through them very deeply. I’m still a bit sick lol.
Give me a bit of time.
From the looks of them, I understand your reticence of allowing such material into classes of young minors.
I get it. We should want to protect our kids

Perhaps my more “indifferent” reaction to such material is due to my heavy exposure to European media, cinema and perhaps even books. Sex presentation in Europe and to a certain degree Australia just isn’t something seen as harshly taboo like it it is in the States. I’m sorry it just isn’t. What would be rated PG or even M (equivalent to a PG13 rating) would be rated R in the states even now. One could even argue that due to the internet being at the kids fingertips 24/7, perhaps a compromise could come in the form of trying to supervise their exploration? And that exploration will only be encouraged by banning or otherwise restricting certain books in school libraries. Classes, sure you can be a bit more strict. But the libraries? Ehhh??
We should be there to be guiding figures to our kids, should we not?

I do have to ask though.
Are you aware that some of the most influential, praised/celebrated, discussion enriching artistic works throughout history have like a ton of sex in them?
Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying we should be reading from the Libertine movement (circa 16-1800s) to like 12 year olds. Maybe wait until they’re a bit older for the highly acclaimed French novel Dangerous Liaison's, ya know?
But it gets increasingly harder to find PG and indeed G rated material from the great artistic movements the higher the reading levels go.
Hell the somewhat safe Shakespeare has literal entire books dedicated to translating the sex jokes he put into his work for a modern audience (mostly lost due to differing societal circumstances and changing slang.)
Micheal Angelo wanted to explore the beauty of the Human body. As seen in the acclaimed Statue of David, which some would argue is indeed pornographic in nature.
Don’t even get me started on the Greco-Roman art that is so beloved in Western Academia. Entire books can be written about their sexcapades. Both inferred and indeed textual in nature.
Heracles/Hercules had many boy and girl lovers, that’s true in the original text. Since in that culture adult males were supposed to “teach” younger males how to errr engage in the act properly to pleasure their wives. You teach Heracles/Hercules without that, you miss a vital understanding of the culture it came from, undermining your own understanding of the text, since it would be a more superficial understanding just from the outset. Sorry, but that’s reality.
Even modern texts aren’t safe
Ulysses gave a nod to err “self love” as it were.
Never mind Lady Chatterly’s Lover, constantly being banned for its sex scenes.
Dracula like the actual original novel I mean, Stoker knew how to write a good romp to get the ladies and perhaps even the men interested (there’s a reason Twilight was so popular, dude. And I say that as a Twilight hater!)
Never mind all the ancient art literally depicting sex from all over the world!!

And that’s just the visual arts.
Here. Enjoy

50 Shades of Classical Music - the sexiest pieces of all time

From the romantic to the sensual, here’s our pick of 50 sexy pieces of classical music, inspired by E L James’ erotic novel

www.classicfm.com

If you want teens to learn about art properly, like actually learn, you have to include the explorations they themselves did on the human animal, which included our bodies. Our sex lives.
Otherwise you’re only giving teenagers a censored incomplete artistic discussion.
Is that actually teaching them? Like properly I mean?

Sure you can argue where the line is regarding when they are ready for that. And that line is different for each minor. But shielding them from it forever does far more harm than good. They learn from their peers instead. That’s atrocious.
I can understand that the debate of where that line is will be raging on for all time to come. Since different parents will have differing lines. But I think we can make compromises instead of just banning everything

 

[We Never Know]

Understand the skepticism but I think it is pretty well known and documented in the US

More Texas Parents Find Pornographic Books in Their Children’s School Libraries - Texas Scorecard

“Newspapers can’t print this material, and you’d be arrested if you gave it to a child on the street. So, why is this in our children's library?”

texasscorecard.com

Mother reveals books in school libraries depicting child porn and pedophilia

A mother in Fairfax County called out the school board for indirectly making accessible to students two books featuring child pornography and pedophilia.

alphanews.org

11-year-old reads aloud from ‘pornographic’ book he checked out from library at school board meeting

An 11-year-old in Maine spoke out against “pornographic” content in his middle school and wants the administrators to be prosecuted.

nypost.com

WHAT IF?

What if school libraries was about enriching the mind in science, math, literary greats, great men and women autobigraphies, logic and other things that had to do with education?

I must ask.... How did it go from the OP of 'Suppression of Free Speech on Covid' to porn?

​

 

[Soandso]

I must ask.... How did it go from the OP of 'Suppression of Free Speech on Covid' to porn?

​

Yahhh... that's what I was wondering on page 8

How did we go from talking about COVID to porn?...

 

[SomeRandom]

I must ask.... How did it go from the OP of 'Suppression of Free Speech on Covid' to porn?

​

Sex sells

 

[We Never Know]

Sex sells

But does it bring in more money than vaccines and boosters?

 

[SomeRandom]

But does it bring in more money than vaccines and boosters?

You might have to ask the Americans that one.
I don’t think I’ve ever “paid” for receiving a vaccine or booster. That’s covered by my taxes.

 

[We Never Know]

You might have to ask the Americans that one.
I don’t think I’ve ever “paid” for receiving a vaccine or booster. That’s covered by my taxes.

But they weren't free. Either taxes paid or governments paid with tax money.

 

[SomeRandom]

But they weren't free. Either taxes paid or governments paid with tax money.

Yeah just like they do schools, roads and various jobs.
The US spends twice if not more on medical expenses compared to literally everyone else.
(Even with the increase of living expenses, which I will agree is way too high.)
And yet the US has the lowest overall outcomes for health, in terms of industrialised nations, despite having the best resources (arguably)
I mean I don’t know anyone who had to sell their house because they got cancer.
Compare that with the US.
Is cancer just a scam then? Hmm?

You can’t just fall back on the greed of the US medical industry all the time. Yeah they suck, you won’t get any arguments from me.
But just because they exist to make a profit doesn’t automatically mean that any new disease that arises is a fake to make money.
Like I agree that it is atrocious for the FDA to profit off of suffering and I agree it’s not right. But sometimes things occur that are outside of even their scope, ya know?

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022: Accelerating Spending, Worsening Outcomes

This cross-national comparison of health care systems assesses U.S. health spending, outcomes, status, and service use relative to 12 other high-income countries.

www.commonwealthfund.org

Granted I say this as a layman. I’m just saying. Maybe the existence of one doesn’t necessarily discount the other? Ya know?

 

[Sargonski]

Nuh-uh!



Are you using a fallacy to argue that I am making a fallacious argument?!



Ever read or studied Orwell?

I mean, do you really, seriously, truly think that freedom of speech is a great argument against the government weeding out misinformation during a deadly pandemic?

If you are going to cry out "Fallacy" then state what the fallacy is .. and "nuh-hu .. not an argument for much friend ... Took the book in high school .. saw the movie ... read manufacturing consent at age of 19 -- was in college .. ended up taking a Philosophy of Law Class at one point .. funny story .. was a Jewish Professor .. PH.D from Oxford . youngish fellow .. .. would come to the Uni Chess Club .. ended up was kind of a friend .. ended up taking that and contemporary moral Issues from this fellow as well .. that was a good one .. ended up debating abortion for a month .. pornography .. and forgot the third issue we got into

but this was not "weeding out misinformation" .. what a joke and clueless statement -- nor was freedom of speech challenged by the Gov't to effect social control .. the Gov't did not claim to have right to breach freedom of speech ? What they did is in engage in state sponsored propaganda and censorship .. using the coercive charms of Big Brother in a quazi covert manner.

This was about manufacturing consent for violation not only of speech .. which you are desperatly trying to justify but a big fail .. but violation of of other rights .. "my body my choice" .. did you forget the forced medical treatment .. and let us not pretend to believe that the boss telling your daughter to put out or lose job is not "Force/Coercion" generally illegal and for good reason .. threatening to take away provision for life and life of family ..is Nazi tactics .. get out the yellow star .. demonize and marginalize a group .. as "Unclean" .. restrict movement .. and so on .. that yellow star passport to enter the country...

you havn't the faintest whats up from down friend .. please don't tell me you studied Orwell .. as it would be horrifying for you to have done that and not comprehend any of whats going on ... and in fact had it all backwards .. mirroring What Biden Blue is doing on Red or some such nonsense .. "Gov't doing the political weaponization of misinformation ... using harm reduction as an excuse to violate civil liberties"

did you not understand what was said to you "harm reduction" aka "utilitarianism .. as justification of law .. an anathema to the founding principle. but never mind .. this is fallacious utilitarianism .. your collectivist Brethren .. then you cry about some fallacy I made .. when there was none by me .. Pointing out your logical fallacies is not fallacy on my part friend.

Do you understand what "Political weaponization of Misinformation" means .. its the term you used .. but ye have not the foggiest what means.

The pounded the misinformation out .. Fauci on of the head cheer leaders .. "Lab Leak" conspiracy .. to label the lab leak a conspiracy ..

"No Gain of Function Research" == Goblins at work ..

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If you are going to cry out "Fallacy" then state what the fallacy is

You suggested I was a Nazi but gave no other explanation for what fallacy I was committing.

.. and "nuh-hu .. not an argument for much friend ...

Exactly! It was in response to "Dude .. it was the Gov't doing the political weaponization of misinformation ... using harm reduction as an excuse to violate civil liberties" which isn't much of an argument because it doesn't provide anything of substance. It is a claim without evidence. It may as well be two kids "nuh-uhing" each other.

Took the book in high school .. saw the movie ... read manufacturing consent at age of 19 -- was in college .. ended up taking a Philosophy of Law Class at one point .. funny story .. was a Jewish Professor .. PH.D from Oxford . youngish fellow .. .. would come to the Uni Chess Club .. ended up was kind of a friend .. ended up taking that and contemporary moral Issues from this fellow as well .. that was a good one .. ended up debating abortion for a month .. pornography .. and forgot the third issue we got into

Okay, cool.

but this was not "weeding out misinformation" .. what a joke and clueless statement -- nor was freedom of speech challenged by the Gov't to effect social control .. the Gov't did not claim to have right to breach freedom of speech ? What they did is in engage in state sponsored propaganda and censorship .. using the coercive charms of Big Brother in a quazi covert manner.

Nuh-uh!

This was about manufacturing consent for violation not only of speech .. which you are desperatly trying to justify but a big fail .. but violation of of other rights .. "my body my choice" .. did you forget the forced medical treatment .. and let us not pretend to believe that the boss telling your daughter to put out or lose job is not "Force/Coercion" generally illegal and for good reason .. threatening to take away provision for life and life of family ..is Nazi tactics .. get out the yellow star .. demonize and marginalize a group .. as "Unclean" .. restrict movement .. and so on .. that yellow star passport to enter the country...

Where did this occur? I suspect you're referring to vaccination requirements for certain jobs?

you havn't the faintest whats up from down friend .. please don't tell me you studied Orwell

I have. Everything he wrote was for democratic socialism. ;-)

.. as it would be horrifying for you to have done that and not comprehend any of whats going on ... and in fact had it all backwards .. mirroring What Biden Blue is doing on Red or some such nonsense .. "Gov't doing the political weaponization of misinformation ... using harm reduction as an excuse to violate civil liberties"

In an interview with Bob Woodward, Trump stated that by January 2020 he knew how deadly the COVID-19 virus was, how it was spread, how different it was from the flu, and how it also impacted young people and not just the old. In public, he downplayed the virus, spreading misinformation about it, presumably to downplay the danger to avoid panic, but apparently also to appeal to a conservative narrative being pushed by other politicians, talking heads, and conspiracy theorists.

Trump told Bob Woodward he knew in February that COVID-19 was ‘deadly stuff’ but wanted to ‘play it down’

"It's not just old people," Trump told Woodward, acknowledging the gravity of the disease, The Washington Post reported.

www.google.com

For instance:
- he downplayed mask wearing and mocked those who did: In His Own Words, Trump on the Coronavirus and Masks (Published 2020)

-he compared COVID-19 with the flu: AP FACT CHECK: Trump's faulty claims on flu and coronavirus

-he touted unproven cures: Trump says he still thinks hydroxychloroquine works in treating early stage coronavirus

So we have the figurehead of the United States, the most powerful leader of the world, purposefully (except maybe about cures) deceiving the public and spreading misinformation. How then does the federal government combat misinformation with a new administration?

did you not understand what was said to you "harm reduction" aka "utilitarianism .. as justification of law .. an anathema to the founding principle. but never mind .. this is fallacious utilitarianism .. your collectivist Brethren .. then you cry about some fallacy I made .. when there was none by me .. Pointing out your logical fallacies is not fallacy on my part friend.

Hm...not sure I am making a utilitarian argument here, but I can see why you may think that.

My argument is that the federal government has a responsibility to promote the general welfare of the American people. We pay taxes for this reason. Where there is a deadly contagion spreading through the country, it is a responsibility for the government to curb the spread of misinformation that has potential to increase the deadly spread, especially when some of the misinformation was spread by the previous President.

Do you understand what "Political weaponization of Misinformation" means .. its the term you used .. but ye have not the foggiest what means.

Yes I do.

Do you think Trump announced that chocolate prices had gone up or down or both? Do you think Trump announced that we were at war with Eastasia or allied with them?

The pounded the misinformation out .. Fauci on of the head cheer leaders .. "Lab Leak" conspiracy .. to label the lab leak a conspiracy ..

"No Gain of Function Research" == Goblins at work ..

As far as I know, only a minority of scientists and intelligence officers support the lab leak theory. It is, since currently unproven and involving a "coverup," a conspiracy theory. (A theory involving a conspiracy.)

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I miss Mary Poppins.

I am very sorry about that.

(I think.)

 

[Sargonski]

No it didn't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/09/01/1918-flu-pandemic-end/

I wouldn't have wanted to be in charge of the safety of the U.S. populace in the face of an as yet unknown pandemic, at the federal, state, or local level - and I think those who were did what they thought was best for the general welfare of their citizens, even as it varied from state to state and even county to county. Excepting China, who did use totalitarian force to limit the most basic of freedoms.

A delerious necessary illusion "Gov't is only doing what is in your best interest" .. what a horribly brainwashed and Orwellian Perspective.

When you start from such a grossly false assumption .. your conclusions on that basis will not be sound. And while you may not have wanted to be in charge .. you likely would have done a whole lot better job than the one's who were in charge .. taking marching orders from the Pharma Lobby ..

Would you have submitted and given obeisance to the drug lobby -- unquestionably followed their dictates ? and China was not the only natio using totalitarian force .. that happened right here in the USA .. did you not notice in your blissful necessary illusion bubble ? did you not notice Australia .. who did a good job on the lockdown .. but yeah .. "Totalitarian" measures were taken.

Seem lost .. no basic understanding of what is going on .. a perspective based on "necessary illusions" -- do you undertand the phrase Anna .. I thought not but google Chomsky in conjunction with the name .. there is a True Blue podium you can march too .. get some right perspective happening.

 

[Sargonski]

You suggested I was a Nazi but gave no other explanation for what fallacy I was committing.



Exactly! It was in response to "Dude .. it was the Gov't doing the political weaponization of misinformation ... using harm reduction as an excuse to violate civil liberties" which isn't much of an argument because it doesn't provide anything of substance. It is a claim without evidence. It may as well be two kids "nuh-uhing" each other.



Okay, cool.



Nuh-uh!



Where did this occur? I suspect you're referring to vaccination requirements for certain jobs?



I have. Everything he wrote was for democratic socialism. ;-)



In an interview with Bob Woodward, Trump stated that by January 2020 he knew how deadly the COVID-19 virus was, how it was spread, how different it was from the flu, and how it also impacted young people and not just the old. In public, he downplayed the virus, spreading misinformation about it, presumably to downplay the danger to avoid panic, but apparently also to appeal to a conservative narrative being pushed by other politicians, talking heads, and conspiracy theorists.

Trump told Bob Woodward he knew in February that COVID-19 was ‘deadly stuff’ but wanted to ‘play it down’

"It's not just old people," Trump told Woodward, acknowledging the gravity of the disease, The Washington Post reported.

www.google.com

For instance:
- he downplayed mask wearing and mocked those who did: In His Own Words, Trump on the Coronavirus and Masks (Published 2020)

-he compared COVID-19 with the flu: AP FACT CHECK: Trump's faulty claims on flu and coronavirus

-he touted unproven cures: Trump says he still thinks hydroxychloroquine works in treating early stage coronavirus

So we have the figurehead of the United States, the most powerful leader of the world, purposefully (except maybe about cures) deceiving the public and spreading misinformation. How then does the federal government combat misinformation with a new administration?



Hm...not sure I am making a utilitarian argument here, but I can see why you may think that.

My argument is that the federal government has a responsibility to promote the general welfare of the American people. We pay taxes for this reason. Where there is a deadly contagion spreading through the country, it is a responsibility for the government to curb the spread of misinformation that has potential to increase the deadly spread, especially when some of the misinformation was spread by the previous President.



Yes I do.

Do you think Trump announced that chocolate prices had gone up or down or both? Do you think Trump announced that we were at war with Eastasia or allied with them?



As far as I know, only a minority of scientists and intelligence officers support the lab leak theory. It is, since currently unproven and involving a "coverup," a conspiracy theory. (A theory involving a conspiracy.)

A response of deflection and twirling around crying No No No ... unable to deal with the reality that it was Blue engating in the weaponization of disinformation.

And no one called you a Nazi -- you are just spouting totalitarian Propaganda ..in complete oblivion to the fact.. which is really pathetic given you have actually heard of Chomsky ... .. obviously never any of his books nor watched the movie "Manufacturing Consent" .. which details the various ailments from which you are suffering

Why are you talking about Trump ?? What does Trump have to do with Blue engaging in Totalitarian Nazi tactics .. such as forced medical treatment .. which you pretend not to understand .. like sheep in disingenuous oblivion land.

What part of Force - Coercion did you not understand ? having trouble with the concept " Suck the bosses pud or lose your job" .. is coercion .. knowing that if you lose your job .. your child will die. Your not a Nazi .. least the Nazi's knew what they were doing was wrong . .. what a joke ..

Then the propaganda .. complete with censorship and violations of free speech .. you just loved that .. law justified on the basis of fallacious utilitarianism .. "Harm Reduction" this collectivist totalitarian Nazi ideology ..to violate civil liberties .. and you laughably try to deflect to Trump's moronicity .. as if this somehow justifies the Blue team Nazi Atrocity. Pathetic.

 

[metis]

vaccines yet people who took it more seriously and got the shots still died anyways.

Proportionally very few, and part of the problem is that it takes roughly 2 months for your body to make a full set of antibodies. The vaccines are not like the flu vaccines since they only mimic covid.

But the fear installed was huge with even young healthy people were running to line up in lines screaming give me my shot.

And they were the smart ones because there's no way of telling who may or may not eventually get infected.

BTW, my wife and I caught covid a year and a half ago, but since we were vaxed we had relatively minor symptoms. We are both in our 70's.

 

[1137]

And they were the smart ones because there's no way of telling who may or may not eventually get infected.

So I understand your point, the world is crazy and anything could happen. So should people avoid driving because accidents are possible? Should they get feeding tubes since choking is a common cause of death? Should they avoid love since it can end in heart break? Should they do their business outside since tons of people die in their home bathrooms? Should we be driven by fear into oppressing ourselves in any situation where something bad might happen?

 

[metis]

So I understand your point, the world is crazy and anything could happen. So should people avoid driving because accidents are possible? Should they get feeding tubes since choking is a common cause of death? Should they avoid love since it can end in heart break? Should they do their business outside since tons of people die in their home bathrooms? Should we be driven by fear into oppressing ourselves in any situation where something bad might happen?

That's a nonsensical position since we knew back then that covid was a potentially deadly virus, and we knew that that the vaccines worked because of the testing, so why would a supposedly intelligent person not want to be on the safe side of things and also help reduce infecting others? To not do as such would be like "I'm going to drive 50 over the speed limit because there's a chance I might not kill anyone or even get a ticket".

 

[1137]

That's a nonsensical position since we knew back then that covid was a potentially deadly virus, and we knew that that the vaccines worked because of the testing, so why would a supposedly intelligent person not want to be on the safe side of things and also help reduce infecting others? To not do as such would be like "I'm going to drive 50 over the speed limit because there's a chance I might not kill anyone or even get a ticket".

Oof bad take. Have you talked to the patients who it caused cardiac problems in? The post menopausal women now having their periods again, etc? The people who lost jobs because they're allergic to vaccine preservatives? The athletes who collapse afterwards? And this all ignores it was a shot for something with almost no risk to most if the population with all these downsides that didn't even finish properly testing until this year. And let's not forget the companies had so much faith in themselves that... nobody is allowed to take any legal action against all the negative outcomes.

So you're right, the comparison isn't good. It's more like someone saying "maybe I shouldn't drink and drive since driving is risky enough."

 

[1137]

Oof bad take. Have you talked to the patients who it caused cardiac problems in? The post menopausal women now having their periods again, etc? The people who lost jobs because they're allergic to vaccine preservatives? The athletes who collapse afterwards? And this all ignores it was a shot for something with almost no risk to most if the population with all these downsides that didn't even finish properly testing until this year. And let's not forget the companies had so much faith in themselves that... nobody is allowed to take any legal action against all the negative outcomes.

So you're right, the comparison isn't good. It's more like someone saying "maybe I shouldn't drink and drive since driving is risky enough."

Indeed possibly the worst thing about the jab is how it validated vaccine hesitancy. I have completely normal, educated, intelligent friends who now are vaccine skeptics, I'm not even sure their kids were properly vaccinated. And as upsetting as that is it is hard to blame them when the gov labeled some rushed medicine that didn't actually prevent anything and caused tons of problems a vaccine along with the rest, even changed the official definition, and companies had no liabilities. Along with all the other fallout we're still dealing with, someone has a lot to answer for.