• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Taqueria customer shoots and kills robber

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That's kind of a non answer.
We have no idea what the causes were.
Its been known for ages that poverty leads to crime. Someone who impoverished and hungry stealing food is a classic example. But not only that, an example where sometimes the thief is helped (such as someone offering to buy her family adequate food for the month amd assistance with obtaining employment and community resources), rather than punished, because many understand it to be and recognize it as a crime of survival and desperation.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Actually it is up to a court, not the prosecutor. And said prosecutor would have to establish that the shooter did not think the stand your ground applied. Otherwise the defense could use that.
As an affirmative defense it would be up to the defendant to prove that Stand Your Ground applied. A defendant does not automatically qualify for it.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
As an affirmative defense it would be up to the defendant to prove that Stand Your Ground applied. A defendant does not automatically qualify for it.
The threshold for that is harrowingly low, to the point your life doesn't even have to be threatened. Basically you just need to feel threatened and then you are entitled to act in ways no reasonable person would.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The threshold for that is harrowingly low, to the point your life doesn't even have to be threatened. Basically you just need to feel threatened and then you are entitled to act in ways no reasonable person would.
Not reasonable to you.
But many other reasonable people see it differently.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The threshold for that is harrowingly low, to the point your life doesn't even have to be threatened. Basically you just need to feel threatened and then you are entitled to act in ways no reasonable person would.
I disagree. In fact the person in the video appeared to have a justified case for self defense not just for himself but for others as well. He could not shoot while he as near anyone, or when he was looking at him. If you check his shot the background was clear, it was one of the few angles where he could safely shoot the robber. When someone has a gun one has to assume that it is real. And a person with a real gun is a danger until he drives away in a case like this.

I would still like to see an investigation into this. There is a very small chance that this was an arranged suicide.. The odds of that are very small but better safe than sorry. If the two knew each other then I would begin to be suspicious.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I disagree.
For stand your ground, it takes hardly a damn thing for a defendant to enact it. It's been successfully applied over arguments, when escape was very possible, and when no clear danger was even present (as in, the other person didn't even draw a weapon).
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Not reasonable to you.
But many other reasonable people see it differently.
Reasonable people don't draw guns during arguments and start shooting. They don't kill people because someone is yelling at them. Of course other people see it different, these are the unreasonable people who have adequately demonstrated those laws are well abused and deadly.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Reasonable people don't draw guns during arguments and start shooting.
That scenario isn't under discussion.
They don't kill people because someone is yelling at them.
Same.
Of course other people see it different, these are the unreasonable people who have adequately demonstrated those laws are well abused and deadly.
Shooting an armed robber is justified.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
For stand your ground, it takes hardly a damn thing for a defendant to enact it. It's been successfully applied over arguments, when escape was very possible, and when no clear danger was even present (as in, the other person didn't even draw a weapon).
Do you have some examples? I am not fond of the law, it does not exist in my state. And I would say that one would not need to rely on it in this case.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Some of those cases are rather poor. The Zimmerman and Rittenhouse cases are not the best examples to use. Both of them would have been found innocent stand your ground or no stand our ground. Zimmerman was attacked. He had broken off the chase and was no longer following Martin. Martin circled back and made the mistake of attacking what he thought was an unarmed man. Rittenhouse's case was also one of self defense. The law may have emboldened some people. The Arberry case may ben an example of that. But even that would have failed as a stand your ground case. You can stand your ground, but you cannot go looking for trouble. I would like to see what other professionals think of the studies done. Studies in the social sciences are nowhere near as objective as studies in the hard sciences or even medicine. And a lot of the cases should go to trial as murder cases. You should not just get to say "stand your ground". But right now I am unconvinced when biased examples are used to support the claims it does not look good for the person making the claims.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Some of those cases are rather poor. The Zimmerman and Rittenhouse cases are not the best examples to use. Both of them would have been found innocent stand your ground or no stand our ground. Zimmerman was attacked. He had broken off the chase and was no longer following Martin. Martin circled back and made the mistake of attacking what he thought was an unarmed man. Rittenhouse's case was also one of self defense. The law may have emboldened some people. The Arberry case may ben an example of that. But even that would have failed as a stand your ground case. You can stand your ground, but you cannot go looking for trouble. I would like to see what other professionals think of the studies done. Studies in the social sciences are nowhere near as objective as studies in the hard sciences or even medicine. And a lot of the cases should go to trial as murder cases. You should not just get to say "stand your ground". But right now I am unconvinced when biased examples are used to support the claims it does not look good for the person making the claims.
So, in other words, ignore most of the news items provided, ignore the racial discrepancies, and ignore the pros who studied this (like RAND) and found stand your ground has just gotten more people hurt and killed and not reduced crime.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So, in other words, ignore most of the news items provided, ignore the racial discrepancies, and ignore the pros who studied this (like RAND) and found stand your ground has just gotten more people hurt and killed and not reduced crime.
No, you posted a hodge podge of poor arguments. You are arguing emotionally rather than rationally.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
This video shows the events leading up to the moment of shooting.
It looks more justified than I thought.
The claims that the robber was just leaving isn't so clear.
He was heading in that direction when shot, but he still
had his gun raised, & was near patrons.
Shooting the perp in the back was the best decision.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
A man in a ski mask entered a taqueria and proceeded to rob diners brandishing what appears to be a gun. One of the customers then pulled out his own gun, shot and killed the robber. The man then returned the money the robber had taken to other diners. The man and the other customers left before police arrived. This happened in Houston.

HPD: Customer shot suspect to death at Houston restaurant; wanted for questioning
The cops say he's "wanted for questioning".
Yeah...just for information.
Cops lie.
The real motive is to prosecute him.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The cops say he's "wanted for questioning".
Yeah...just for information.
Cops lie.
The real motive is to prosecute him.
Well we can't have people defending themselves when their lives are threatened!!! Oh wait, we can. Never mind.

To be fair since he did leave that forced the hands of the police a bit to do a more thorough investigation. And it appears that he has talked with the police and they have not released his name ; ; yet. Hopefully they respect his wishes and do not do so.


People have to remember that "headed for the door" does not mean leaving. If he had a real gun he could have still shot people from the doorway. In a case like this as long as he was in the restaurant the shoot was valid.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well we can't have people defending themselves when their lives are threatened!!! Oh wait, we can. Never mind.

To be fair since he did leave that forced the hands of the police a bit to do a more thorough investigation. And it appears that he has talked with the police and they have not released his name ; ; yet. Hopefully they respect his wishes and do not do so.


People have to remember that "headed for the door" does not mean leaving. If he had a real gun he could have still shot people from the doorway. In a case like this as long as he was in the restaurant the shoot was valid.
He, he continued to pose a deadly threat,
even when facing the exit. The shooting
was justified...& very useful to all.
 
Top