Taxation is...

[PureX]

I wonder how many tolls I'd have to pay to go to the grocery store? And given that every single toll collector will want to make me pay as much as possible, what will I do when they demand more then I have? Do I have to wait for someone else to build another road going in the same direction and hope that person doesn't also overcharge? Or maybe I could just kill the toll collector and take his road for myself. Then I could be the toll collector ... until someone kills me. What fun!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Is a military a necessity? Costa Rica doesn't have one. But assuming that a society decides it wants a military. It doesn't follow that taxation is the only way to finance it. Some countries use tariffs or profits from nationalized markets to finance their military. Perhaps you want to critique particular examples. I have no interest in doing so. The particulars are not as important as the truth that it is possible.

Nationalized markets are theft. Please try to example how you would actually finanze a modern state. Be serious and start be naming what services are essential.
As for Costa Rica they are also not in any military alliances, right?

 

[The Hammer]

Is a military a necessity?

Absolutely. Unless defense of the nation is not important.

 

[Alien826]

The shopkeeper dosent point a gun at you and demand you to buy his stuff or suffer the consequences.

That was just an introductory statement meant to point out that things have to be paid for. The rest of my post developed on that.

Incidentally, if you need the stuff badly enough, there isn't much choice in the matter, gun or no gun. Take the recent history of insulin pricing. But that's not particularly relevant to the discussion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Absolutely. Unless defense of the nation is not important.

His example with Costa Rica doesn't hold up, if you look closer.

 

[Shaul]

Never seen it work any other way then via the government.

Do you have examples.of where taxation is completely irrelevant?

If not through taxation, how else does the government get the funding to do these projects?

The use of taxation by governments is a spectrum, not a binary state of use/non-use. So your question of where it is "completely irrelevant" isn't answerable. It would be like asking for an economy that is completely free-market. I have previously listed some of the alternative methods for financing government operations. The point is that a society decides how much taxation it permits. There is no universal minimum required amount of taxation.

 

[Alien826]

Is a military a necessity?

Ask Ukraine that question.

 

[The Hammer]

The Short, Unhappy Life of a Libertarian Paradise

The Town That Went Feral

The Rise and Fall of the 'Freest Little City in Texas'


All different locations, all the same situation. Without taxation and governmental assistance, things go quickly to hell in a hand basket.

 

[The Hammer]

There is no universal minimum required amount of taxation

Yes there is. It's a simple "how much in-coming money, allows projects to be completed."

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The use of taxation by governments is a spectrum, not a binary state of use/non-use. So your question of where it is "completely irrelevant" isn't answerable. It would be like asking for an economy that is completely free-market. I have previously listed some of the alternative methods for financing government operations. The point is that a society decides how much taxation it permits. There is no universal minimum required amount of taxation.

So a society decides taxation, yet it is theft, because you say so? Is that it?

 

[sayak83]

Nonsense. Using taxation as a means of government financing isn't a per se requirement at all. There are countries that don't have taxes yet provide essential services.

Which country is this?

 

[The Hammer]

So a society decides taxation, yet it is theft, because you say so? Is that it?

Yeah, I'm not following the logic either.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yeah, I'm not following the logic either.

I get it. What is a social construct, is not really that. I as an individual decide that, because I have individual freedom to do that. The problem is that freedom is also a social construct.

 

[Shaul]

None of those have ever historically worked for a large scale society. They may work in villages, and townships (maybe). But no where else. Certainly not in a place like the US federation or the EU.

Yet countries like Saudi Arabia, Bermuda and the Bahamas get by with no income taxes. Also the United States had no income tax for most of its history. History indeed.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yet countries like Saudi Arabia, Bermuda and the Bahamas get by with no income taxes. Also the United States had no income tax for most of its history. History indeed.

But they still have taxes. As for the USA I need a short source for all of it history to see how that worked.

 

[Shaul]

His example with Costa Rica doesn't hold up, if you look closer.

Costa Rica will celebrate 70 years with no army

Abolition of the Army in Costa Rica

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Costa Rica will celebrate 70 years with no army

Abolition of the Army in Costa Rica

Yeah, they are in a military alliance with the USA. Just as Iceland is.

 

[Shaul]

But they still have taxes. As for the USA I need a short source for all of it history to see how that worked.

<sigh> Once again. The amount of taxation is a spectrum, not an absolute. The point is a society can choose the finance means it uses and taxation is not the only option.

In the United States personal income taxes did not exist (Federally) until the passage of the 16th Amendment in 1913. Prior to its passage the government financed its operations via tariffs.

 

[The Hammer]

Yet countries like Saudi Arabia, Bermuda and the Bahamas get by with no income taxes.

Also the United States had no income tax for most of its history. History indeed.

And those aren't societies I'd like to live in. (Feel free to live in Saudi Arabia if you'd like).

Bermuda's population is 63k, when you're that small you might be able to get away without taxation. For that to work in the US, you'd have to dismantle the federal government completely, remove state boundaries and govt, and give all power to large Cities. This isn't a feasible option.

As for the US, times change as population and demands surge.

 

[Shaul]

Yeah, they are in a military alliance with the USA. Just as Iceland is.

So? The more salient point is that they have good relations with their neighbors which eliminates the need for a military. The elimination for the need for taxes to support a military is real.