Tell the World

[Vinayaka]

So, how much "free" thought is allowed? Wasn't it you that knew a very knowledgeable Baha'is that got his voting rights taken away for something he said or did?

Breaking the Covenant is one thing, but I had met a Baha'i that started a magazine called "Dialogue". The Baha'i leadership shut him down. Here's an excerpt from the article that got them in trouble...

• 
  However, there is clear and compelling evidence that the fortunes of the United States Baha'i community have stagnated, at least by some objective measures, within the past decade. Americans are loathe to face such stagnancy or admit that any decline is occurring, but even a cursory look at a few basic facts and indicators reveals the trends:
  
  Declarations have slowed to a maintenance pace. In the 1960s and early '70s,10,000 declarations a year, many among young people, were not unusual. Since 1974, enrollments have hovered around the 3,000 per year level, which is approximately what it takes to replace attrition to withdrawals, pioneering, deaths, etc.
  
  Youth declarations have dropped even more precipitously as we have been unable to sustain the influx of youth and young adults at levels comparable to the 1969-1973 period, when unprecedented numbers of youth enrolled in the Faith. Consequently the total of 19,000 Baha'i youth in the American Baha'i community in the peak year (1971) has declined to a total of 2,800 in 1987.
  
  While the goals of the Nine, Five, and Seven Year Plans were, for the most part, won, the American Baha'i community has yet to achieve anything close to widespread enrollments and the beginning of the process of "entry by troops" expected here for over a decade.
  
  Inactivity and alienation are difficult to measure quantitatively. However, the most commonly accepted gauge of inactivity-Baha'is who are listed as being "address unknown" status-now comprise a staggering percentage of the total community: 40-45,000 names of 100,000 believers. In the 1970s, this figure generally stayed within the 30 percent range, while now almost 50 percent of our community are "address unknown"-a figure that likely indicates increasing inactivity and alienation among the believers.

The article went on to make "modest" proposals to fix things. Maybe now things are getting better. It seems like Baha'is online have a lot of freedom to say what they want.

And that was 37 years ago. If somebody was pointing out dismal enrolment than, I can't imagine what it's like now. I don't think anyone on line is keeping track.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No offence, but I feel like a snake oil salesman has just offered me a free sample, as long as I promise only to buy from him in the future.

Luckily you have the choice to take the sample or not take it, use it or not use it and to try the product or not to try the product.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, how much "free" thought is allowed? Wasn't it you that knew a very knowledgeable Baha'is that got his voting rights taken away for something he said or did?

Breaking the Covenant is one thing, but I had met a Baha'i that started a magazine called "Dialogue". The Baha'i leadership shut him down. Here's an excerpt from the article that got them in trouble...

• 
  However, there is clear and compelling evidence that the fortunes of the United States Baha'i community have stagnated, at least by some objective measures, within the past decade. Americans are loathe to face such stagnancy or admit that any decline is occurring, but even a cursory look at a few basic facts and indicators reveals the trends:
  
  Declarations have slowed to a maintenance pace. In the 1960s and early '70s,10,000 declarations a year, many among young people, were not unusual. Since 1974, enrollments have hovered around the 3,000 per year level, which is approximately what it takes to replace attrition to withdrawals, pioneering, deaths, etc.
  
  Youth declarations have dropped even more precipitously as we have been unable to sustain the influx of youth and young adults at levels comparable to the 1969-1973 period, when unprecedented numbers of youth enrolled in the Faith. Consequently the total of 19,000 Baha'i youth in the American Baha'i community in the peak year (1971) has declined to a total of 2,800 in 1987.
  
  While the goals of the Nine, Five, and Seven Year Plans were, for the most part, won, the American Baha'i community has yet to achieve anything close to widespread enrollments and the beginning of the process of "entry by troops" expected here for over a decade.
  
  Inactivity and alienation are difficult to measure quantitatively. However, the most commonly accepted gauge of inactivity-Baha'is who are listed as being "address unknown" status-now comprise a staggering percentage of the total community: 40-45,000 names of 100,000 believers. In the 1970s, this figure generally stayed within the 30 percent range, while now almost 50 percent of our community are "address unknown"-a figure that likely indicates increasing inactivity and alienation among the believers.

The article went on to make "modest" proposals to fix things. Maybe now things are getting better. It seems like Baha'is online have a lot of freedom to say what they want.

The issue here CG is that Baha'u'llah has already said as the Old World Order disintegrates, that the Baha'i are not exempt from the influence it poses.

Baha'u'llah said we have to be a new race of men with naught but love and service if we want to help the world.

A Baha'i has the Covenant as protection and that is the only protection. In all these cases they would be advised that an opinion can not attempt to undermine the whole. The Administrative Order thus has due process for condescending views.

It also allows all views to be put forward, heard and discussed. More than likely, those that can not let go of their opinion, instead of helping, they continue to present their view is better then those that were elected to guide us all.

I know people involved at that time were advised and some left to pursue other avenues. If there was sanctions, then due process was undertaken.

It is personal pride that causes division CG, the world is not going to miraculously change overnight,each individual will be faced with tests to show if they were sincerely pursuing the oneness of humanity. That oneness will not happen if we can not accept the due processes, given by a Messenger of God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And that was 37 years ago. If somebody was pointing out dismal enrolment than, I can't imagine what it's like now. I don't think anyone on line is keeping track.

There was a time when enrolments were Important, as it was a time of recognition of the faith by authorities and allowing the Administrative Order to be raised and implemented.

That time passed and numbers are not a priority, education and community service is a priority. It matters not about numbers of people who identify as a Baha'i, the goal is working with all to instill within us the morals and virtues that will guide the unity of humanity, in our diversity of views.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What I like about you and the Baha'is is that the hearts and minds of people are changed to where the anger, the hate and wanting to get hurt others gives way to love and forgiveness. 'Cause, if people still hate all they need is a fist or a rock to take out a person.

When I was drafted in the early 70's, my complaint was that I was going to be trained to kill people in Southeast Asia because they think differently than us? And then if it's okay to kill people because they don't think like me and I disagree with them, who's going to stop me from killing almost everyone I meet? They draft board didn't care. I walked out and later was charged with draft evasion. Then the war ended, and Nixon got in trouble, so they dropped the charges.

3 years in the Australian Armed forces, before I was a Baha'i, taught me that fruitless wars need to be vanquished.

Funny thing is I marched out of The 6 months of training with the most outstanding soldier award. Have to laugh at that.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

And that was 37 years ago. If somebody was pointing out dismal enrolment than, I can't imagine what it's like now. I don't think anyone on line is keeping track.

In 1970 I went to the Baha'i Summer School in Kelowna, because I was told by the Baha'is in Southern California that one-third of the Baha'is in Canada were Native people. I met a Bahai'i girl there from Vancouver that was East Indian. I wonder if they counted her in those statistics. Along with all the white people that say they are part Indian. Or maybe they met they were native born Canadiens. Anyway, there was one Native/Tribal person there out of a 100 or so.

But I wasn't the only one fooled. The next year they held the Summer School at a ski resort outside of Vernon. A Hand of the Cause, ‘Alí-Akbar Furútan, was sent there, because there had been so many new Baha'i enrollments in BC. At least this time there was a couple of Native people there. That's double the amount in just one year. And it's been 50 years.

 

[CG Didymus]

3 years in the Australian Armed forces, before I was a Baha'i, taught me that fruitless wars need to be vanquished.

Funny thing is I marched out of The 6 months of training with the most outstanding soldier award. Have to laugh at that.

Regards Tony

One of the first Mel Gibson movies was "Gallipoli". Never heard of the place. It ends up it's in Turkey during WWI. I think it was Australian soldiers waiting in trenches, and Mel Gibson had to run to the front lines to tell the commanding officer not to have them charge. He was too late. His friend jumped out of the trench with all the rest of the soldiers and charged straight into machine gun fire. War is stupid. I hope Baha'is can bring peace to the world.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Just check our why the Baha'i Faith remains undivided. It's called the Covenant.

Yeah, all Abrahamic religions have a covenant. Follow it or you are out. And when they are in power, you are jailed, maimed or killed.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Breaking the Covenant is one thing, but I had met a Baha'i that started a magazine called "Dialogue". The Baha'i leadership shut him down.

Typical of Abrahamic religions. Go against the authority, blasphemy, and you are out; if not killed, beheaded or burned on a stake. There will be 'fatwas' and rewards if you get the deed done.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

One of the first Mel Gibson movies was "Gallipoli". Never heard of the place. It ends up it's in Turkey during WWI. I think it was Australian soldiers waiting in trenches, and Mel Gibson had to run to the front lines to tell the commanding officer not to have them charge. He was too late. His friend jumped out of the trench with all the rest of the soldiers and charged straight into machine gun fire. War is stupid. I hope Baha'is can bring peace to the world.

My grandfather was in the first world war, he suffered greatly from that experience.

Unfortunately CG, the elected representatives seem to think we want war, as they keep adding to the arsenal.

I would not be at all surprised, if the next war brings upon us the flames of off world technologies. It is frustrating how animal minded a lot of people still choose to be.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Typical of Abrahamic religions. Go against the authority, blasphemy, and you are out; if not killed, beheaded or burned on a stake. There will be 'fatwas' and rewards if you get the deed done.

Breaking the Covenant is one thing, but I had met a Baha'i that started a magazine called "Dialogue". The Baha'i leadership shut him down. Here's an excerpt from the article that got them in trouble...

Yet despite what Baha'u'llah offered about our obedience to the Baha'i system, they chose to publish it anyway.

That is about all that is needed to be said, we do not know what was offered behind the scenes, there are 3 sides to a story and you will only hear one side in matters such as this.

If people are upset about the decisions of the National Spiritual Assembly, then they can ask for a decision of the Universal House of Justice.

Now, because of those actions, there are people that will now see it as a great opportunity to show proof of a failing system, when in reality the system is working and it filters out those that are not quite ready to embrace a unity of effort.

I appreciate the work they do, but it is not sustainable outside of the system given by Baha'u'llah, there is great wisdom in submission.

That is also a good piece of advice to Tell the World, unity can only be found in submission of a good deal of self interest.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah, all Abrahamic religions have a covenant. Follow it or you are out. And when they are in power, you are jailed, maimed or killed.

Typical of Abrahamic religions. Go against the authority, blasphemy, and you are out; if not killed, beheaded or burned on a stake. There will be 'fatwas' and rewards if you get the deed done.

Luckily the Baha'i only use consultation and Love.

After all that is what William Miller was Telling the World about, that the Day of God was upon us, when men will beat swords into plowshares.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

Good to remember OB, what God offers, thus what Baha'u'llah offered, it's not for sale.

Life is a free will choice. One can only tell the world.

It's all free here. The Baháʼí Faith - Home

Consider the quoted reply above and then ponder why I can not post the official site of any other Faith, .........................................

Stop you right there, Tony.
1. You've already told us all that Bahai writings don't count if they are inconvenient at some time or in some context that doesn't suit Bahai.
2. I am a Deist......... it's all about what Nature offers here. Nature is the resident Power here and the Deity too large to even be aware of us.

 

[oldbadger]

So, how much "free" thought is allowed? Wasn't it you that knew a very knowledgeable Baha'is that got his voting rights taken away for something he said or did?

I knew an LSA member who got ejected from that assembly because he was gay. I know of many Bahais who have been stopped, or excluded, or turned out...for writing their own opinions. A very knowledgeable member here on RF is some kind of covenant breaker. You will certainly have seen his avatar name....... something like Sean McGlen but I cannot spell it correctly at this time.

Breaking the Covenant is one thing, but I had met a Baha'i that started a magazine called "Dialogue". The Baha'i leadership shut him down. Here's an excerpt from the article that got them in trouble...

In a Bahai World the Thought-Police would be everywhere.
Bahais don't seem to be able to see it all at this time.

If you're doing things for God then surely you can do mostly anything? Maybe that's how the Inquisition judged itself, a holy servant following the true God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Luckily the Baha'i only use consultation and Love.

If you go by what Bab and his followers did in his time, it is only that they do not have power. Is he not the Mahdi for Bahais?
"MacEoin has pointed out that the Bábís did arm themselves, upon the Báb's instructions, and originally intended an uprising, .."
Bábism - Wikipedia

If you're doing things for God then surely you can do mostly anything? Maybe that's how the Inquisition judged itself, a holy servant following the true God.

^^^God or His Manifestation. ^^^

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If you go by what Bab and his followers did in his time, it is only that they do not have power. Is he not the Mahdi for Bahais?
"MacEoin has pointed out that the Bábís did arm themselves, upon the Báb's instructions, and originally intended an uprising, .."
Bábism - Wikipedia

It was a time of transition. It has a lot of history to be considered. After the Bab gave the Message, the persecution was great. Most of the followers were still operating under Islamic Law of self defense.

The Battles were epic. 100's of porly armed Babi who were just ordinary everyday people against 1000's of well armed professional soldiers. In the end, it was Islam that broke their oaths on the Quran. The Babi only wanted peace, but one can not have peace amongst bloodthirsty wolves. A study of Persia of this time is needed.

A shorty time after the Bab was put to death. Baha'u'llah made it clear that religious war was forever banned. After this the sword was not used again by the believers.

That is what we now practice, Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

A shorty time after the Bab was put to death. Baha'u'llah made it clear that religious war was forever banned. After this the sword was not used again by the believers.
That is what we now practice.

In other words, Bahaollah realized that he did not have the power. You still do not have the power and are not likely to have it in any foreseeable future. Finally all religions based on falsehood will loose out. The world is getting smarter every day.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In other words, Bahaollah realized that he did not have the power. You still do not have the power and are not likely to have it in any foreseeable future. Finally all religions based on falsehood will loose out. The world is getting smarter every day.

Ha ha Aupmanyav. God only wants our hearts. That is the true power.

I do agree, I see mankind is finding its unity, the smartest move it can make.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

At the moment Russia is massing its military on Ukraine border. The Chinese and Pakistan armies are at our border. China is violating Taiwan air-space on a daily basis. I do not know Kim Jon-Un's plans, really nobody knows that. Iran may test atom bomb. That is for unity. Don't live in dreams. It is all doing of your God. Wake up.

 

[CG Didymus]

My grandfather was in the first world war, he suffered greatly from that experience.

Unfortunately CG, the elected representatives seem to think we want war, as they keep adding to the arsenal.

I would not be at all surprised, if the next war brings upon us the flames of off world technologies. It is frustrating how animal minded a lot of people still choose to be.

Regards Tony

Baha'is told me that mothers would someday refuse to send their sons off to war. Yet, parents are still proud to send their children off to fight for truth and justice and put a stop to tyranny and evil. But what people and what country hasn't done evil to somebody? Like with both of our countries, Europeans came and moved the native people out of the way and took over. Today, would the U.S. and Australia allow some people or country to take over some other land and move out and kill the people that lived in that land? No, we'd send in our troops to kill and stop them.

But the other thing that seems to be happening, is that rich, powerful countries still send in troops to fight to protect their interests in other weaker countries. Or, when we've helped put in a leader that "works" with us, we send troops in to put down revolts against that leader. How's any of that going to be easily fixed? Maybe a great catastrophe that brings the world to its knees? And the only way out is for all people to band together to fix things?

If that happens, will the Baha'is be ready? Because that day might not be that far off.