Tell the World

[CG Didymus]

If people are upset about the decisions of the National Spiritual Assembly, then they can ask for a decision of the Universal House of Justice.

I think it did go to the UHJ, didn't it? Actually, I just glanced over a few articles on the internet. Too much controversy.

 

[CG Didymus]

I knew an LSA member who got ejected from that assembly because he was gay. I know of many Bahais who have been stopped, or excluded, or turned out...for writing their own opinions. A very knowledgeable member here on RF is some kind of covenant breaker. You will certainly have seen his avatar name....... something like Sean McGlen but I cannot spell it correctly at this time.




In a Bahai World the Thought-Police would be everywhere.
Bahais don't seem to be able to see it all at this time.

If you're doing things for God then surely you can do mostly anything? Maybe that's how the Inquisition judged itself, a holy servant following the true God.

I found him... Sen McGlinn. Here's a link to his blog.

Now if I was in charge of keeping the Baha'i Faith intact, I'd be on the watch for anybody trying to change things and to cause some problems. But where would I draw the line before I've gone too far? I wouldn't want to not go far enough and let some "dissidents" get a hold on things. Better to nip anything that looks suspicious before it starts growing. Right? Or maybe I shouldn't be put in charge of such a thing? But who should? Conservative, authoritarian types? Progressive, liberal types?

 

[CG Didymus]

It was a time of transition. It has a lot of history to be considered. After the Bab gave the Message, the persecution was great. Most of the followers were still operating under Islamic Law of self defense.

The Battles were epic. 100's of porly armed Babi who were just ordinary everyday people against 1000's of well armed professional soldiers. In the end, it was Islam that broke their oaths on the Quran. The Babi only wanted peace, but one can not have peace amongst bloodthirsty wolves. A study of Persia of this time is needed.

A shorty time after the Bab was put to death. Baha'u'llah made it clear that religious war was forever banned. After this the sword was not used again by the believers.

That is what we now practice, Regards Tony

But if a rogue country starts some trouble, all the other countries are supposed to rise up against it. At some point in time, religion might be involved. And what if that point in time has the Baha'i Faith in charge and that rogue nation is some rebel band that still believes in one of the old religions? Like even now, it would be nice to send in troops to put a stop to people that are killing and persecuting people from another religion, wouldn't it? And if that religion being persecuted was the Baha'i Faith, wouldn't they support military action?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

At the moment Russia is massing its military on Ukraine border. The Chinese and Pakistan armies are at our border. China is violating Taiwan air-space on a daily basis. I do not know Kim Jon-Un's plans, really nobody knows that. Iran may test atom bomb. That is for unity. Don't live in dreams. It is all doing of your God. Wake up.

Baha'u'llah warned us what would be the consequences of our rejection of the 1844 and subsequent Message becomes f 1863.

In the 1800's they were told to disarm, before the bloody world wars.

We were told that if we neglected the Message, then two world wars would result and then an ever increasing wave of calamities would.unfold until the day when suddenly there will appear that will cause the limbs of mankind to quake. It is then and only then that the wisdom of that Message will unfold.

It is looks like it may take a war with weapons no one wants, it will be a godless war, so it may indeed involve China.

It will most likely be swift, one day will change the world. The northern hemisphere of the USA is in danger, many cities are in danger.

It is all speculation, but there is a fair amount of detail written into a vision of what can happen if we do not unite as one race.

It is and will be our own ununited, predudiced worldly selves that brings these calamities upon ourselves.

I see technologies that are not of this world will bring a swift end to any large scale attack on the American Nation, I would hope Russia does not also take on a role as an agressor, but becomes a defender.

The day will come when this will unfold.

Spoiler: This Day Will Come

The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. …The day is approaching when all the peoples of the world will have adopted one universal language 250 and one common script. When this is achieved, to whatsoever city a man may journey, it shall be as if he were entering his own home. These things are obligatory and absolutely essential. It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I found him... Sen McGlinn. Here's a link to his blog.

Now if I was in charge of keeping the Baha'i Faith intact, I'd be on the watch for anybody trying to change things and to cause some problems. But where would I draw the line before I've gone too far? I wouldn't want to not go far enough and let some "dissidents" get a hold on things. Better to nip anything that looks suspicious before it starts growing. Right? Or maybe I shouldn't be put in charge of such a thing? But who should? Conservative, authoritarian types? Progressive, liberal types?

Not sure why Sen was brought into the conversation.

People choose their paths in Faith.

It is a challenge to is all, as submission is a bounty from God, we choose to submit, or we do not.

Look at the sacrifice of Jesus and admire a level.of submission Jesus the Christ asked us to embrace, if we really wanted to follow him.

So if a person really wanted to be part of a Faith that had naught but Love and Unity as a goal, why would.ome.let their own opinions remove themselves from this united effort?

The Covernant of Baha'u'llah is firm, it is what has and will hold the Baha'i Faith together unbroken. If we do not submit fully to it, then we will be tested by it. There is a fine line and the Covernant gives us the line.

The faith encourages and is all embracing of academic achievements, yet the line is drawn and we have to use the wisdom firedragon nside a system, not think we have ability or knowledge greater than the system.

How else can unity work CG? One would think if we really have embraced Baha'u'llah as a Messenger of God, then would we not submit to the given Message and Laws?

Always happy to chat on these subjects, but I see they do not do the faith any harm, they just harm the people that use them as some type of negative proof.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But if a rogue country starts some trouble, all the other countries are supposed to rise up against it. At some point in time, religion might be involved. And what if that point in time has the Baha'i Faith in charge and that rogue nation is some rebel band that still believes in one of the old religions? Like even now, it would be nice to send in troops to put a stop to people that are killing and persecuting people from another religion, wouldn't it? And if that religion being persecuted was the Baha'i Faith, wouldn't they support military action?

See this post.
Tell the World

The United Nations could have worked, yet the cancer that can become Nationalism is still way too prevalent. It has to be a world legislative body where all Nations are participating. Also the voting system will have to change, there should be no abstainIng from a vote and the majority decisions are final.

Religion is for peace and harmony for the health of our souls. It plays a part in guiding our actions in serving Justice.

There is no reason a Baha'i will not be part of a police force or army. In offering that one should consider that for a Baha'i it is better to be killed than kill, so non combative roles should be allocated as the first priority. Like in the medical side on the front line.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'is told me that mothers would someday refuse to send their sons off to war.

This is the passage Abdul'baha gave on this subject.

"The principle of religion has been revealed by Bahá’u’lláh that woman must be given the privilege of equal education with man and full right to his prerogatives. That is to say, there must be no difference in the education of male and female in order that womankind may develop equal capacity and importance with man in the social and economic equation. Then the world will attain unity and harmony. In past ages humanity has been defective and inefficient because it has been incomplete. War and its ravages have blighted the world; the education of woman will be a mighty step toward its abolition and ending, for she will use her whole influence against war. Woman rears the child and educates the youth to maturity. She will refuse to give her sons for sacrifice upon the field of battle. In truth, she will be the greatest factor in establishing universal peace and international arbitration. Assuredly, woman will abolish warfare among mankind." (The Promulgation of Universal Peace)

So I see that is already so, yet women are yet the get a loud enough voice amongst war mongering men.

Also the push from some women, thinking equality is sameness, has also added to the demise of the womens more peaceful nature.

Personally I see men should be more women like and subdue the agressor in them.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think it did go to the UHJ, didn't it? Actually, I just glanced over a few articles on the internet. Too much controversy.

Thanks for the link CG. I browsed through it and can understand why, it is very clear where the lines are crossed, even if it is clothed in language that offers support of the Universal House of Justice.

The Covernant needs to be studied deeply, as it is our only protection.

You will note how the author goes into great detail as to how the Universal House of Justice is no longer able to interpret scripures.

Then the author themselves provides this statement "What does Baha’u’llah mean by these passages? To understand them, we must comprehend the context in Islamic legal thought".

So that really says it all, we have an individual offering to the reader, that to understand what Baha'u'llah is offering, we have to understand how he sees what Baha'u'llah means, we have the accept his interpretation. So we have an individual who has now offered that they see it better than a body elected by the whole Baha'i world.

At the same time we are told the Universal House of Justice makes decisions on information it requests from a department that was put together to do such research. Luckily this is all covered in the Covernant.

It is offered that if a mistake is made because the decisions of the Universal House of Justice were based on incorrect data, or if other data comes to hand that means a different decision would have been made, then the wrong can be righted.

For our part we are to accept the decisions and allow due process, in other words put our faith in God and the test we are confronted with.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Not sure why Sen was brought into the conversation

It was in an old thread and he was brought up as an example of a Baha'i that had sanctions put on him. I don't know if they've be lifted or not. But I don't mind that Baha'i leaders want to control what some Baha'is say. Christians did it too and called people with a different interpretation heretics.

So, if asked, Baha'is should not say that they are free to think or say anything they want. They should be following Baha'i teachings. But the problem is... who decides when what a Baha'i says and thinks is going against and harming the Faith? Like with the "Modest Proposal" article. Was it really challenging the Baha'i leadership? Did it make them look inept and not doing a good job? If things can be done better, and someone has some ideas of how they can be done better, what do they do? Are NSA's going to be made up of "status-quo" people?

There was a group of Baha'is that put together what they called a "Nine-day Deepening Institute." It was a study of mainly the Hidden Words. Baha'is were going to Indian Reservations and doing "mass-teaching". The new Baha'is were then invited to participate in the deepening. Lots of people had profound spiritual breakthroughs. But it was stopped.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In was in an old thread and he was brought up as an example of a Baha'i that had sanctions put on him. I don't know if they've be lifted or not. But I don't mind that Baha'i leaders want to control what some Baha'is say. Christians did it too and called people with a different interpretation heretics.

So, if asked, Baha'is should not say that they are free to think or say anything they want.

They should be following Baha'i teachings. But the problem is... who decides when what a Baha'i says and thinks is going against and harming the Faith? Like with the "Modest Proposal" article. Was it really challenging the Baha'i leadership? Did it make them look inept and not doing a good job? If things can be done better, and someone has some ideas of how they can be done better, what do they do? Are NSA's going to be made up of "status-quo" people?

There was a group of Baha'is that put together what they called a "Nine-day Deepening Institute." It was a study of mainly the Hidden Words. Baha'is were going to Indian Reservations and doing "mass-teaching". The new Baha'is were then invited to participate in the deepening. Lots of people had profound spiritual breakthroughs. But it was stopped.

The key is CG is that yes a Baha'i can give their opinion. The key is to let it go once they have.

It is not the same as Christianity and the heretic process, as the process in the Baha'i Faith is written into the Covernant. It is not a man made process seeking domination over the minds of mankind. It is a process to ensure a lasting unity that maintains a healthy sharing of alternative views.

I am also not offering that it has always been done correctly to date either. I am offering that if one is firm in the Faith, they will consider to subdue their pride, and continue to offer views within the system.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

In was in an old thread and he was brought up as an example of a Baha'i that had sanctions put on him. I don't know if they've be lifted or not. But I don't mind that Baha'i leaders want to control what some Baha'is say. Christians did it too and called people with a different interpretation heretics.

So, if asked, Baha'is should not say that they are free to think or say anything they want. They should be following Baha'i teachings. But the problem is... who decides when what a Baha'i says and thinks is going against and harming the Faith? Like with the "Modest Proposal" article. Was it really challenging the Baha'i leadership? Did it make them look inept and not doing a good job? If things can be done better, and someone has some ideas of how they can be done better, what do they do? Are NSA's going to be made up of "status-quo" people?

There was a group of Baha'is that put together what they called a "Nine-day Deepening Institute." It was a study of mainly the Hidden Words. Baha'is were going to Indian Reservations and doing "mass-teaching". The new Baha'is were then invited to participate in the deepening. Lots of people had profound spiritual breakthroughs. But it was stopped.

From what I've read from ex-Bahai, most Baha'is leave quietly once they discover it's not for them. They rarely bother to write the UHJ or take it any further, because they see little point in that. I think Sen McGinn held out some hope for a change, and is still actively working on it, but to no avail.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

From what I've read from ex-Bahai, most Baha'is leave quietly once they discover it's not for them. They rarely bother to write the UHJ or take it any further, because they see little point in that. I think Sen McGinn held out some hope for a change, and is still actively working on it, but to no avail.

So we have a few, that see changes are needed, who when advised they need to approach it in a different way, then choose to leave a fully functional system, that is only created to foster unity.

Any point to why this is significant? I invite you to tell the world why it is.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

So we have a few, that see changes are needed, who when advised they need to approach it in a different way, then choose to leave a fully functional system, that is only created to foster unity.

Any point to why this is significant? I invite you to tell the world why it is.

Regards Tony

It's significant because folks are talking folly, as if the Baha'i faith has a future. It doesn't. Declining enrollment, low birth rates, an inability to change, and it'll be history in less than 100 years. The mean age now is probably around 60, so in 40 years another 70% will be no more.

But it is an interesting sociological topic to be able to watch a faith as it dies.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's significant because folks are talking folly, as if the Baha'i faith has a future. It doesn't. Declining enrollment, low birth rates, an inability to change, and it'll be history in less than 100 years. The mean age now is probably around 60, so in 40 years another 70% will be no more.

But it is an interesting sociological topic to be able to watch a faith as it dies.

Luckily that is all in the hands of God and time will tell.

If, in our lifetimes we see great change and the opposite of what you offer about the Baha'i Faith undolds, then what?

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Luckily that is all in the hands of God and time will tell.

If, in our lifetimes we see great change and the opposite of what you offer about the Baha'i Faith undolds, then what?

Regards Tony

You're always the optimist. The way I see it, that won't possibly happen. ALL the evidence points to the contrary. It's just not an appealing faith once you get to know it. One person I talked to recently said in the last 20 years, his local group got so small, they had to join with 3 others just to keep anything at all alive. There may be small pockets of growth where a couple of dynamic people keep it going through fun and friendship, but those are rare.
But you're free to make conjectures that have no basis in reality. Everybody needs some sort of hope. I believe a few of the ideas will stick around, but as always, those ideas won't be lead by the Baha'i faith. Common sense can do that. Many faiths have real tolerance and promote love for humanity.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You're always the optimist. The way I see it, that won't possibly happen. ALL the evidence points to the contrary. It's just not an appealing faith once you get to know it. One person I talked to recently said in the last 20 years, his local group got so small, they had to join with 3 others just to keep anything at all alive. There may be small pockets of growth where a couple of dynamic people keep it going through fun and friendship, but those are rare.
But you're free to make conjectures that have no basis in reality. Everybody needs some sort of hope. I believe a few of the ideas will stick around, but as always, those ideas won't be lead by the Baha'i faith. Common sense can do that. Many faiths have real tolerance and promote love for humanity.

Why I am optimistic, is that this time is already written of in detail, so these times are great evidence that the unfoldment is happening as we are told it will, and it will most likely deteriorate quite a fair bit more.

So the firm basis is in what I see is the Word of God, but I do understand that you do not see the written word has any significance.

I will put up a quote to read, as you are not fond of quotes, it Is under a spoiler.

Spoiler: The weak few

"In such an afflicted time, when mankind is bewildered and the wisest of men are perplexed as to the remedy, the people of Bahá, who have confidence in His unfailing grace and divine guidance, are assured that each of these tormenting trials has a cause, a purpose, and a definite result, and all are essential instruments for the establishment of the immutable Will of God on earth. In other words, on the one hand humanity is struck by the scourge of His chastisement which will inevitably bring together the scattered and vanquished tribes of the earth; and on the other, the weak few whom He has nurtured under the protection of His loving guidance are, in this formative age and period of transition, continuing to build amidst these tumultuous waves an impregnable stronghold which will be the sole remaining refuge for those lost multitudes. Therefore, the dear friends of God who have such a broad and clear vision before them are not perturbed by such events, nor are they panic-stricken by such thundering sounds, nor will they face such convulsions with fear and trepidation, nor will they be deterred, even for a moment, from fulfilling their sacred responsibilities.

There is much written about these times.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Baha'u'llah warned us what would be the consequences of our rejection of the 1844 and subsequent Message becomes of 1863.

These messages are a useless exercises. They were given by the earlier so-cqlled manifestations of God, Zoroaster, Jesus and Mohammad also. And what is their effect? Did the world go by what they said? We are still fighting with each other. To believe that any verbiage can change the world is ignorance. They are like the missives sent by Bahaollah to rulers of nations, which humanity throws in a waste paper basket, and carries on.

 

[Vinayaka]

These messages are a useless exercises. They were given by the earlier so-cqlled manifestations of God, Zoroaster, Jesus and Mohammad also. And what is their effect? Did the world go by what they said? We are still fighting with each other. To believe that any verbiage can change the world is ignorance. They are like the missives sent by Bahaollah to rulers of nations, which humanity throws in a waste paper basket, and carries on.

At least some of the other leaders like Gandhi and King had some sort of impact. Ahimsa originated with Sanatana Dharma, some 3000 years prior to this modern verbiage.

It's delusional to think you have so much power when you have so little.

How cold is Delhi this year. (Currently -28 C here.) I had to run across the parking lot at mandir in my veshti. But the mandir has in-floor heating ... so warm.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

manifestations of God, Zoroaster, Jesus and Mohammad also. And what is their effect?

History shows they change billions of hearts and shape the direction of, and build Nations.

Did the world go by what they said?

It was not the time for the world to embrace a message meant for the world.

Tell the world, this is the time.

Regards Tony

 

[Spirit of Light]

History shows they change billions of hearts and shape the direction of, and build Nations.



It was not the time for the world to embrace a message meant for the world.

Tell the world, this is the time.

Regards Tony

It is now the world need it the most. Someone who can lead the way toward the light. Toward peace on earth.

But it will take time for all people to Unite and have faith.