Tennessee bans lots of Drag Shows and gender-affirming care for kids

[Kenny]

Only short term:
How long do side effects last on hormone therapy?
Side effects will usually last for as long as you are on hormone therapy. If you stop your hormone therapy, your testosterone levels will gradually rise again and some side effects will reduce. Your side effects won’t stop as soon as you finish hormone therapy – it may take several months.

Managing skeletal issues in transgender and gender-nonconforming individuals - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes sex and gender are different and I may have confused them



People would do it because identify as another gender than the one their biology indicates.
Maybe "on a whim" sounds demeaning and condescending but was not meant to be.

It is though. It suggests that they're just going through a "phase" and aren't really serious, or that others know better what is best for them or something.

 

[metis]

Managing skeletal issues in transgender and gender-nonconforming individuals - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

From your own link, did you read this:
There is now a growing recognition that long-term hormone therapy may impact the risk of a number of chronic diseases, including osteoporosis.

With teens in a transgender situation, hormone therapy would be relatively short lived. I had osteoporosis, but with a change in my diet and a pill I took once a week for 2 years, it's back to normal.

But also, please note that the article goes against what you said in regard to what dominates our sexual desire and possibly our identity, namely it's the hormones, not the "equipment".

BTW, tomorrow is my 78th birthday and our 56 years of marriage, so you better be nice to me! As it is, we have two doctor's appointments.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I suppose I'm just a genius.

You're not.

 

[Left Coast]

Sex assignment surgery, usually

Okay, so if we're gonna talk about this stuff we've got to be accurate, folks. That isn't what "usually happens" for people with chromosomal abnormalities. At all.

People with a single X chromosome, called Turner Syndrome, are anatomically female. They have a variety of other medical problems, but they're not hermaphrodites.

People with XXY, called Klinefelter Syndrome, are anatomically male. They are also not hermaphrodites. Many boys and men with this abnormality go undiagnosed because they have no obvious symptoms.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Okay, so if we're gonna talk about this stuff we've got to be accurate, folks. That isn't what "usually happens" for people with chromosomal abnormalities. At all.

People with a single X chromosome, called Turner Syndrome, are anatomically female. They have a variety of other medical problems, but they're not hermaphrodites.

People with XXY, called Klinefelter Syndrome, are anatomically male. They are also not hermaphrodites. Many boys and men with this abnormality go undiagnosed because they have no obvious symptoms.

It is the norm when ambiguous genitalia are involved. This is why there is a push to ban surgically assigning infants (who are more typically assigned to female).

 

[Left Coast]

It is the norm when ambiguous genitalia are involved. This is why there is a push to ban surgically assigning infants (who are more typically assigned to female).

But people with chromosomal abnormalities don't have ambiguous genitalia, generally. That's what was being discussed.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

But people with chromosomal abnormalities don't have ambiguous genitalia, generally. That's what was being discussed.

I don't think anyone was just discussing chromosomal abnormalities but intersex as a whole, which includes intersex where the karyotype is either XX or XY but the gonadal presentation is opposed to that karyotype or ambiguous. Which includes stuff like CAH, AIS, and others where people often aren't treated by their karyotype.

And make up a solid chunk of detransitioners because the surgeries done without their consent do not reflect their gender, but whatever the doctor thinks looks right.

 

[Left Coast]

I don't think anyone was just discussing chromosomal abnormalities

The comment I replied to was specifically about people who are not XX or XY.

And make up a solid chunk of detransitioners because the surgeries done without their consent do not reflect their gender, but whatever the doctor thinks looks right.

Infants are not capable of consent. I assume the parents generally give consent for any medical treatment, yes?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Infants are not capable of consent. I assume the parents generally give consent for any medical treatment, yes?

Yes. But there's zero input from the person being operated on, and we know you just cannot raise a boy as a girl and expect him to be happy. It's been tried and it's failed to tragic ends.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The comment I replied to was specifically about people who are not XX or XY

My post reply is coming from here. XX or XY but both, switched or ambiguous anatomy. Intersex people who get revision surgery as infants aren't based on chromosomes but whatever the doctor thinks they can 'normalize.'

Infants are not capable of consent. I assume the parents generally give consent for any medical treatment, yes?

Not always, no some are done routinely without consent being required at all. Not dissimilar from 'husband stitching.' But parents shouldn't be able to consent to non-medical necessary cosmetic surgery for infants either...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But people with chromosomal abnormalities don't have ambiguous genitalia, generally. That's what was being discussed.

As ADigitalArtist indicated, I thought we were talking about intersexed conditions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But parents shouldn't be able to consent to non-medical necessary cosmetic surgery for infants either...

Yup. Children, especially infants, just should not be subject to cosmetic and permanent body modifications. If it were up to me getting your baby girl's ears pierced would be child abuse. Yes, the pain is minimal but there is no consent, no desire and serves no purpose or function than satisfying what the parent thinks should be and wants. Never mind the possibility the child may possibly grow up to resent the scars and wish the choice had not been exclusively for others to decide.

 

[Left Coast]

Yes. But there's zero input from the person being operated on, and we know you just cannot raise a boy as a girl and expect him to be happy. It's been tried and it's failed to tragic ends.

Infants cannot give input on any medical care they get. This is why parents should give consent on their behalf.

I'm not advocating we "raise a boy as a girl." Though that phrase raises questions about what a boy or girl is.

 

[Left Coast]

View attachment 72633
My post reply is coming from here. XX or XY but both, switched or ambiguous anatomy. Intersex people who get revision surgery as infants aren't based on chromosomes but whatever the doctor thinks they can 'normalize.'

I was replying to this exchange:


It is not true that people with XXY or X0 syndromes are usually treated with corrective surgeries. That's just simply not the case.

Not always, no some are done routinely without consent being required at all. Not dissimilar from 'husband stitching.' But parents shouldn't be able to consent to non-medical necessary cosmetic surgery for infants either...

It seems to me doctors are capable of determining what's medically necessary, yes?

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems to me doctors are capable of determining what's medically necessary, yes?

While generally capable, some situations aren't clear how to handle.
The decision how to proceed must balance the risk of being wrong,
reversibility in case the choice later turns out to be wrong, delaying
the decision until the affected person can choose, necessity of
immediate action, & who knows what other options are compelling.

I can see that sometimes, a course of action shouldn't
be up to a single doctor or even the parents.
But up to whom?
A committee...how chosen?
With what authority?
I don't have that answer, except to say it should not be
the fundamentalist rabble found in legislatures.

 

[Left Coast]

While generally capable, some situations aren't clear how to handle.
The decision how to proceed must balance the risk of being wrong,
reversibility in case the choice later turns out to be wrong, delaying
the decision until the affected person can choose, necessity of
immediate action, & who knows what other options are compelling.

I can see that sometimes, a course of action shouldn't
be up to a single doctor or even the parents.
But up to whom?
A committee...how chosen?
With what authority?
I don't have that answer, except to say it should not be
the fundamentalist rabble found in legislatures.

I agree, in these rare cases I don't think there is always a clear cut "right answer." It seems like doctors are opting more for not performing surgery these days unless it is truly medically necessary.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree, in these rare cases I don't think there is always a clear cut "right answer." It seems like doctors are opting more for not performing surgery these days unless it is truly medically necessary.

One thing seems clear...anyone with sex/gender issues
should carefully choose in state which they're born.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Infants cannot give input on any medical care they get. This is why parents should give consent on their behalf.

I'm not advocating we "raise a boy as a girl." Though that phrase raises questions about what a boy or girl is.

Sexually assigning intersexed children is advocating boys be raised as girls and vice versa. We have case studies where this has had disastrous results. We have many people today who aren't happy about it because of the damage it caused to their own life.

 

[Left Coast]

Sexually assigning intersexed children is advocating boys be raised as girls and vice versa.

This depends entirely on the degree of "intersexedness" of the child and whether doctors make the right choice in the case of children with ambiguous genitalia. It also implies a biological definition of boyness and girlness, which I'm surprised to see from you.

We have case studies where this has had disastrous results. We have many people today who aren't happy about it because of the damage it caused to their own life.

I'm not sure what number constitutes "many." These conditions are rare to begin with and those who receive surgery as children and are subsequently unhappy with that surgery are an even smaller subset of that minority. I'm aware of anecdotal cases that have been highlighted in media, and it's certainly true that doctors have made the wrong call in some cases.