Tennessee sees new step in wave of anti-Trans bills

[McBell]

I don't know if it's fair to call this a trigger warning.

The sign isn't just telling people that they may be disturbed by something they see ahead, it's letting them know that something about their world has changed.

Seems to me that if they are peeking in on others going to the bathroom.....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And from what I've gathered, parents taking care of adult children tend to love the family/unisex bathrooms more than we do. We thought it would be nice to be able to safely pee and be left alone, but it turns out people are such arselings over bathrooms that I've read many accounts of parents singing the praises of these restrooms that allow them to care for their children without nosey ******** gawking at them and making rude comments.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I was going to Like but saw the transvestite part. I agree with what you're trying to say, but the issue is the stereotype and misinformation about transgenderism, passing, gender vs. sex, and discriminator terms like transvestite applied to transgender and associating how they look as a defining factor of who they are (if they look male but say they're female, they're lying or misinformed...type of thing [unfortunately, that RF conversation never did end well])

Good points, but the truth is that not everyone who says they're trans really is. Some actually are transvestites or have some other sexual thing going on, some are confused, some have body dysmorphic disorder caused by sexual abuse and trauma (you especially see this among young woman who rush into transitioning and then end up detransitioning, often after having surgery and being on testosterone). I've known multiple people personally who were like that. I've known people who were a walking medical malpractice lawsuit waiting to happen because they should not have been cleared for hormones and/or surgery. No, it's not something you simply take on someone's word. It needs to be examined more with each person, and doctors and therapists were supposed to be the ones to do it, but aren't allowed to say no anymore, it seems.

And also the term "transgender" is now an umbrella term covering almost everything under the sun and even gays and lesbians are being assimilated into the definition. So it's all over the place. I feel for the general public, who largely have no idea of all of this.

 

[McBell]

And from what I've gathered, parents taking care of adult children tend to love the family/unisex bathrooms more than we do. We thought it would be nice to be able to safely pee and be left alone, but it turns out people are such arselings over bathrooms that I've read many accounts of parents singing the praises of these restrooms that allow them to care for their children without nosey ******** gawking at them and making rude comments.

Oh, I absolutely love the Family Bathrooms.
Having two daughters and not really wanting to be the reason for busy bodies to cause a scene, I much prefered the family bathrooms where my daughters could use the bathroom without any melodramatic hysterics.

 

[Rival]

Honestly, this may be an issue that women need to work out among themselves. I hear a lot of stories about women freaking out and judging other women in restrooms. This is a totally different dynamic then how men act in restrooms (totally ignore each other, for the most part).

I've never heard or been part of anything like this. Lol. Weird.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I've never heard or been part of anything like this. Lol. Weird.

I'm just going by what people tell me. I've really never seen any of this myself. Lol.

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh, I absolutely love the Family Bathrooms.
Having two daughters and not really wanting to be the reason for busy bodies to cause a scene, I much prefered the family bathrooms where my daughters could use the bathroom without any melodramatic hysterics.

Over the years, I've read of cis-women who appeared not
feminine enuf being hassled by other women in public lavs.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Good points, but the truth is that not everyone who says they're trans really is. Some actually are transvestites or have some other sexual thing going on, some are confused, some have body dysmorphic disorder caused by sexual abuse and trauma (you especially see this among young woman who rush into transitioning and then end up detransitioning, often after having surgery and being on testosterone). I've known multiple people personally who were like that. No, it's not something you simply take on someone's word. It needs to be examined more with each person, and doctors and therapists were supposed to be the ones to do it, but aren't allowed to say no anymore, it seems.

And also the term "transgender" is now an umbrella term covering almost everything under the sun and even gays and lesbians are being assimilated into the definition. So it's all over the place. I feel for the general public, who largely have no idea of all of this.

I've never seen a gay or lesbian person call themselves trans unless their AS doesn't align with their gender identity. I know transmen who are gay and transwomen who are lesbians, though. And obv LGBT includes both gay and trans in it as far as overall social and movement issues.

I do agree with not rushing transitioning, but I also don't view that you need to transition at all in order to be trans, but we've already had that dialogue in a different chat. lol

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I've never seen a gay or lesbian person call themselves trans unless their AS doesn't align with their gender identity. I know transmen who are gay and transwomen who are lesbians, though. And obv LGBT includes both gay and trans in it as far as overall social and movement issues.

I do agree with not rushing transitioning, but I also don't view that you need to transition at all in order to be trans, but we've already had that dialogue in a different chat. lol

No, I mean that the definition of "transgender" has been expanded to such a vague extent that it effectively includes gays and lesbians at this point, as their behavior falls outside the norms of their gender.

People are being rushed into transitioning and hormones and surgery are being thrown around like party favors. It's out of hand.

 

[Quagmire]

I would actively avoid posting this sign by making all my bathrooms unisex (if they weren't already). People who are used to something being a certain way, and that certain way being discriminatory to other people, don't deserve to have me making more discriminatory choices while they get used to the idea.

Like I said: nearsighted.

I could pretty much guarantee that just about any elderly woman in the United States --- pretty much anywhere except maybe California and certain big cities -- is going to be confused, probably disturbed, possibly frightened, if she walked into a public restroom and saw the kind of person of that I described in my last post.

Would they have it coming?

Put it this way: far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with being naked. Can't think of anything more natural.

Wouldn't bother me one bit if public nudity was allowed, became commonplace. I would just be happy about the fact that I wouldn't have to do laundry as often.

But, if laws were passed tomorrow saying that it was okay to be naked in public, I would fully expect, and certainly wouldn't object, to people getting as much of a heads up about it as possible.

Why? Is it because there's something wrong with it and people need to be warned in the same way that they should be warned of some hazard ahead or whatever?

No, people would need to get a heads up because it's not what they're used to.

Not because they're prudes, not because they're evil, not because they got some sort of sick pleasure out of the fact that people used to be required to wear clothes against their will, it's because people are generally freaked out by the unfamiliar.

Doesn't make them bigots, doesn't make them prudes, it just makes them human.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That does not tell us we can use the restrooms. It tells others to be on the lookout for us, or anyone who isn't masculine or feminine enough.
We tend to know where we can use the restroom. We know companies who are trans friendly, we have apps to help us know where is safe, and we follow stuff like this (because this is how much Conservatives hate us, that it's become an odd issue for us).
Ultimately, we don't need the permission of bigots.

Would that be better if it's phrased "this bathroom serves both sexes" (in an ideal non-caring world)?

 

[Quagmire]

Seems to me that if they are peeking in on others going to the bathroom.....

I don't know what most of the transvestites look like where you are but in a lot of cases where I am, no peeking required.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

No, I mean that the definition of "transgender" has been expanded to such a vague extent that it effectively includes gays and lesbians at this point, as their behavior falls outside the norms of their gender.

Who is defining it that way though? Because even if we expected homosexuality = non-gender conformity (it doesn't, nor does it include prerequisite heteronormativity that one partner must be 'the man' and the other 'the woman') trans isn't about gender normativity but gender identity to people I talk to about it. Like... you can be a straight fem boy and I wouldn't assume he was trans, cis men can still be fem and cis women can still be masc.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No, I mean that the definition of "transgender" has been expanded to such a vague extent that it effectively includes gays and lesbians at this point, as their behavior falls outside the norms of their gender.

I've been fairly deep in the transgender debates and discussions for a few years now, and I don't think I have ever come across gay or lesbian people being called trans simply because of their sexual preferences. Heck, I don't think I've even ever seen that from transphobic or homophobic people with no idea what they're talking about.

 

[McBell]

I don't know what most of the transvestites look like where you are but in a lot of cases where I am, no peeking required.

hmmm....
Here in my neck of the woods of all the trans I know personally, I did not know they were trans until they told me.

Now I do not know if that is because they did not flaunt it or if it is more that I do not care enough about it to pick it out.

 

[We Never Know]

Speaking of bathrooms....
I drove up to Wichita KS the other day. Along the way I had to take a bathroom pee break. Pulled over into a Casey's and went to the bathroom. After I locked the door I noticed there was no urinal(didn't think much about it) so raised the lid and peed. As I was washing my hands a saw a changing table and thought men's bathrooms also have changing tables... and then it hit me... I was in the women's bathroom.
Thankfully there was no one waiting when I rushed out lol

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Who is defining it that way though? Because even if we expected homosexuality = non-gender conformity (it doesn't, nor does it include prerequisite heteronormativity that one partner must be 'the man' and the other 'the woman') trans isn't about gender normativity but gender identity to people I talk to about it. Like... you can be a straight fem boy and I wouldn't assume he was trans, cis men can still be fem and cis women can still be masc.

From the APA:
"Transgender is an umbrella term for persons whose gender identity, gender expression or behavior does not conform to that typically associated with the sex to which they were assigned at birth."

"Gender expression and behavior". So a guy who likes to wear makeup and feel pretty can be called " transgender" under that definition. Billy Porter is "transgender" under that definition.

 

[Quagmire]

I was going to Like but saw the transvestite part. I agree with what you're trying to say, but the issue is the stereotype and misinformation about transgenderism, passing, gender vs. sex, and discriminator terms like transvestite applied to transgender and associating how they look as a defining factor of who they are (if they look male but say they're female, they're lying or misinformed...type of thing [unfortunately, that RF conversation never did end well])

I think it should be more "this bathroom services both sexes" and nix the reference to gender, transgender, and anything like that.

But we do need to change the stereotypes, education, and make words clear and understandable rather than jargon (i.e. instead of saying "assigned sex" just say biological sex, type of thing). It will take time. Education is a huge one and patience for people to adapt their views or change them for the betterment of other people would help as well.

hmmm....
Here in my neck of the woods of all the trans I know personally, I did not know they were trans until they told me.

Now I do not know if that is because they did not flaunt it or if it is more that I do not care enough about it to pick it out.

It can be kind of hard to miss the Adams apple. Unless it's covered by a beard, which isnt unheard of

Granted I've spent most of the last 20 years of my life in college towns on the West Coast. People tend to flaunt their differences here.

 

[We Never Know]

Actually, it started with the removal of signs telling people where they could NOT sit on the bus, or which fountains they were NOT allowed to drink from....

I can agree with that. Yet on the other hand not everyone would be aware of anyone could set anywhere regardless of race.
So putting up a sign saying so would be to inform and let everyone know that's how it is. It would keep people from accusing people of being in the wrong seat.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Like I said: nearsighted.

I could pretty much guarantee that just about any elderly woman in the United States --- pretty much anywhere except maybe California and certain big cities -- is going to be confused, probably disturbed, possibly frightened, if she walked into a public restroom and saw the kind of person of that I described in my last post.

Would they have it coming?

Put it this way: far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with being naked. Can't think of anything more natural.

Wouldn't bother me one bit if public nudity was allowed, became commonplace. I would just be happy about the fact that I wouldn't have to do laundry as often.

But, if laws were passed tomorrow saying that it was okay to be naked in public, I would fully expect, and certainly wouldn't object, to people getting as much of a heads up about it as possible.

Why? Is it because there's something wrong with it and people need to be warned in the same way that they should be warned of some hazard ahead or whatever?

No, people would need to get a heads up because it's not what they're used to.

Not because they're prudes, not because they're evil, not because they got some sort of sick pleasure out of the fact that people used to be required to wear clothes against their will, it's because people are generally freaked out by the unfamiliar.

Doesn't make them bigots, doesn't make them prudes, it just makes them human.

I agree about warning about hazards. This isn't a hazard though. A black person in a former white only bathroom isn't a hazard and shouldn't, and didn't, erect a sign warning people who were used to that. And I also agree that this isn't like trigger warnings, where exposure to a stimulus can cause real harm to someone suffering from PTSD. A human just existing in a public space isn't harmful.
Would they feel any better if this person, who is a person born female, came into the women's bathroom? A transphobe would call this person a female even though they're a transman, but it wouldn't reduce the 'shock value' if they met them in a bathroom.

But that's not what this is about. The reality is that's what people like this legislator are trying keep trans people to their assigned at birth bathrooms. He just would get his *** royally whooped in court if he tried to force public businesses to do it, like he did with public schools, so instead he's making it be a punishment where LGBT friendly businesses have to out themselves to a hostile public. This isn't about taking it easy on the elderly who grew up in a bygone era, gradually integrating trans people into a free society those uncomfy people already enjoy.