Terror attacks in Paris.

[Flankerl]

I read a fun comment yesterday regarding a Talk Show where the politicians and representatives of the Muslim community were doing damage control.
One viewer made a summary of the points, with a bit of sarcasm.

Translated from German
- Islamists don't have anything to do with Islam
- Islam has nothing to do with Muslims
- Neither Islam, Islamists nor Muslims have anything to do with the Quran
- The Quran has nothing to do with Mosques
- Anyhow Mosques don't have anything to do with anything
- The Islamic State has absolutely nothing to do with the things mentioned above

Its all a Vacuum.

 

[sandandfoam]

• At least 18 people reported to have been killed in French capital
• Shootouts at concert hall, now the scene of a hostage situation, and restaurant
• Explosions outside France v Germany game at Stade de France

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/13/shootings-reported-in-eastern-paris-live

I think the title 'terrorist attack" gives too much credit to murderers such as these.
The pathetic creatures who perpetrated these crimes are cowards. Ridicule, disgust, loathing and contempt are the appropriate response to gutless deranged psychopaths who think that taking the life of people having a coffee or attending a concert is a victory. The murder of innocents in the name of a merciful God is indicative of intellectual hollowness of an extraordinary scale.
If we alter our attitude to immigrants, foreigners, or indeed to how we conduct our civic life, these filth will have gained a victory. That must not be allowed happen. It will not be allowed to happen. The old wartime saying is as important now as it was then. We must 'keep calm and carry on'.

Lastly, death is too much of a reward for those who see it as a victory. Prison with the keys thrown away and no more recognition than for any of the other criminally insane should be the fate of the 'jihadis'.

 

[Pastek]

Well it seems that France has stepped up and French President Francois Hollande has condemn the attack as an "act of war" and vow that France "will be merciless toward the barbarians of Islamic State group.". Seems that at least one country has decided that they have had enough. Now let's see if the major powers in the world will side with France and seriously take the attack to ISIS.

Yeah I'm proposing "Total War" against ISIS.

They bombed heavily many targets in Raqqa and strategic places where Daesh is yesterday.

Why they waited so long ? It's not like suddenly they found those places, they know what they are doing.
Syrians and irakis are coming in Europe to flee from daesh, they were asking for help since 4 or 5 years now.
USA have satelites, but they said they killed Jihadi Jhon only few days ago .. I mean why they wake up only now, when the situation is complete chaos ?
Millions of people have died but we have to wait that europeans die, when we already know that it will be worse and worse for all of us evrywhere in the world.

 

[Crypto2015]

They bombed heavily many targets in Raqqa and strategic places where Daesh is yesterday.

Why they waited so long ? It's not like suddenly they found those places, they know what they are doing.
Syrians and irakis are coming in Europe to flee from daesh, they were asking for help since 4 or 5 years now.
USA have satelites, but they said they killed Jihadi Jhon only few days ago .. I mean why they wake up only now, when the situation is complete chaos ?
Millions of people have died but we have to wait that europeans die, when we already know that it will be worse and worse for all of us evrywhere in the world.

Two of the perpetrators of the Paris attack are believed to have been refugees. The USA and the EU don't really want to destroy ISIS because ISIS is selling them cheap oil. If the USA really wanted to destroy ISIS, they would reduce it to powder in less than six months. The USA is the most powerful nation in the world in terms of military power. Their personnel is highly trained and highly efficient. ISIS just have the guns that they stole from the local armies and their soldiers have almost negligible military training.

 

[leibowde84]

This saddens me, but also the civilians killed in Syria right now as we speak by Russian warplanes and western/arab warplanes. It saddens me how War can destroy lifes.

There is a difference between civilians killed collaterally and not intentionally, and what happened in Paris, where innocent people were directly targeted in a large group and massacred. The west now has absolutely no choice but to hit IS at home quickly and harshly.

In the words of Winston Churchill, "What kind of a people do they think we are? Is it possible that they do not realize that we shall never cease to persevere against them until they have been taught a lesson which they and the world will never forget?"

Is it actually possible that IS thinks we will allow them to continue their caliphate? For the sake of the innocent people around them, I certainly hope not.

 

[leibowde84]

They bombed heavily many targets in Raqqa and strategic places where Daesh is yesterday.

Why they waited so long ? It's not like suddenly they found those places, they know what they are doing.
Syrians and irakis are coming in Europe to flee from daesh, they were asking for help since 4 or 5 years now.
USA have satelites, but they said they killed Jihadi Jhon only few days ago .. I mean why they wake up only now, when the situation is complete chaos ?
Millions of people have died but we have to wait that europeans die, when we already know that it will be worse and worse for all of us evrywhere in the world.

It is largely due to people getting upset when civilians die as collateral damage in these IS strongholds. Obviously, collateral damage in war is unavoidable, but we cannot be so afraid when the enemy is so evil and destructive.

 

[IndigoStorm]

We need to keep in mind that ISIS/ISIL is not a state .... it is a bunch of radical killers who want firstly, a Caliphate in the Middle East and ultimately the Islamization of the entire world. It is difficult to arm yourself against fanatics who are prepared to blow themselves up so that they will be rewarded with 72 virgins when they go to heaven. Poor buggers are so in for a big surprise ... if only they knew there will be no heaven and no virgins.

 

[leibowde84]

They bombed heavily many targets in Raqqa and strategic places where Daesh is yesterday.

Why they waited so long ? It's not like suddenly they found those places, they know what they are doing.
Syrians and irakis are coming in Europe to flee from daesh, they were asking for help since 4 or 5 years now.
USA have satelites, but they said they killed Jihadi Jhon only few days ago .. I mean why they wake up only now, when the situation is complete chaos ?
Millions of people have died but we have to wait that europeans die, when we already know that it will be worse and worse for all of us evrywhere in the world.

Because when we bomb military targets, many get unreasonably upset about unavoidable civilian casualties.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No ones claiming that ISIS are in any way the good guys in this scenario, they are not, in fact they seem to be about as evil as they can be if we can believe the media reports. Just pointing out that France has been at war with ISIS, and attacking ISIS, and ISIS are bad guys, they fight back, just don't act so surprised when they do, it is war after all. And while ISIS might, Islam in general is not an ideology that preaches Jihad or war against non Muslims.

And when France goes to war with Syria and/or ISIS do the French roam the streets with AK-47s and suicide vests intentionally looking for innocent civilians to blow to smithereens? Or do they maybe attack military sites and bases instead.

 

[Lyndon]

Nobody said both sides use the same tactics, except that killing people comes into both their agendas.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Nobody said both sides use the same tactics, except that killing people comes into both their agendas.

Yeah. One side wants to kill innocent people and the other side wants to kill people who commit heinous acts against their fellow human beings.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nobody said both sides use the same tactics, except that killing people comes into both their agendas.

Um, there's a bit of a difference between soldiers killing enemy combatants and some lunatic massacring innocent civilians.

 

[Crypto2015]

Nobody said both sides use the same tactics, except that killing people comes into both their agendas.

Does the French government crucify children? Does it behead war prisoners and then uploads the video of the beheading to Youtube? Does the French government take war prisoners and rapes them over and over again, even if they are nine-year-old girls? Does the French government sell these children as slaves?

 

[Rapha]

Um, there's a bit of a difference between soldiers killing enemy combatants and some lunatic massacring innocent civilians.

Are you talking about Paris or 'Shock-n-Awe' when western bombs hit 'strategic government' buildings (at night time when no officials were working in them) in Iraq and wiped out 15,000 innocent Iraqi's in suburbia ?

Everyone with blood on their hands, whether its a terrorist or soldier will go to hell where murderers belong.

 

[Mycroft]

Um, there's a bit of a difference between soldiers killing enemy combatants and some lunatic massacring innocent civilians.

But only a bit.

 

[Mycroft]

And when France goes to war with Syria and/or ISIS

That will ensure that there are more terrorist attacks, and more civilian deaths later down the line.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But only a bit.

No, more like the distance of multiple galaxies.

 

[Mycroft]

Yeah I'm proposing "Total War" against ISIS.

Why? So the children of these people can grow up with hatred for the west and become the next generation of terrorists, thus perpetuating the cycle? Unless, of course, you propose we also slaughter all of their children, you know, just in case.

 

[Lyndon]

I think that is what he is proposing.

 

[Mycroft]

You have also mentioned that ISIS is not Islamic because it tortures people and enslave women and children, among other things. This is 100% Islamic!!! Take a look at Muhammad:

There came a slave and pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man) (Sahih Muslim 3901).

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..."

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."

what about torture?

So the apostle called Burayra to ask her, and Ali got up and gave her a violent beating, saying “Tell the Apostle the truth.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 734)

“…they brought them along and questioned them while the apostle was standing praying… The people were dismayed at their report…and so they beat them. When they were beaten soundly…” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 436)

Narrated Abdur Rahman ibn Azhar: “I saw the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) …a man who had drunk wine was brought (before him) and he ordered them (to beat him). So they beat him with what they had in their hands. Some struck him with whips, some with sticks and some with sandals. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) threw some dust on his face.” (Abu Dawud 38:4474)

They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died. (Sahih Muslim 4131 -this account is also confirmed by at least three other narrations).

When he [Muhammad] asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr bin al-Awwam, “Torture him until you extract what he has.” So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad bin Maslama and he struck off his head.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 764) - This story is also confirmed by Ibn Kathir, vol 3 p. 268.

Ah, I see you cherry picked the bad parts of the Quran. Is there the part where I step in to cherry pick the bad parts of the Bible? Allow me to begin with Leviticus...