That Whole Homosexual--Sin Thing

[columbus]

and a strange need to be proud of something they claim isn’t a choice.

I also have trouble with the term "Gay Pride". I am no more proud of being gay than having brown hair.

But the more precise "Proud of having a good life, despite the constant assaults by homophobes and religionists" is a bit wordy.
You can't put that on a legible bumper sticker or entitle your blog with it.
Tom

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Perhaps you didn't read the evidence for Sodom and Gomorrah being found.

Excerpt: "When the archaeological, geographical and epigraphic evidence is reviewed in detail, it is clear that the infamous cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have now been found. What is more, this evidence demonstrates that the Bible provides an accurate eyewitness account of events that occurred southeast of the Dead Sea over 4,000 years ago."

Associates for Biblical Research - The Discovery of the Sin Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah

Since archaeology is a recognized science, can I ask if this was ever published in a recognized journal for peer review?

 

[Skreeper]

Prostate?
What Does the Prostate Gland Do?

I believe....
A man should find a woman
A woman that would be an inspiration to him
A woman who would take care of him
Because a man-woman relationship is natural and stable.

So which relationships are the least/most stable?

The gaps in the stability of same-sex and different-sex relationships are diminishing. Still, if you thought all relationships would show the same stability today, given the current legal and cultural climate, that is not the case: Overall, same-sex couples reported shorter relationship lengths than different-sex couples (Joyner et al., 2017). And male same-sex couples experienced significantly higher rates of dissolution than female couples or different-sex couples. This is consistent with previous findings: Gay and bisexual men are exposed to minority stressors that can de-stabilize relationships (Meyer, 2003; Lau, 2012). Where these men differ from women in female couples is in their engagement with protective factors: Many men do not emphasize emotional intimacy and minimization of boundaries to the extent that women do (Umberson, Thomeer, Kroeger, Lodge, & Xu, 2015).

https://www.psychologytoday.com/int...sex-or-heterosexual-relationships-more-stable

My relationship with my boyfriend is very stable, thank you very much. It's not a competition you know?

 

[InChrist]

But it isnt harmful. Neither is pre or extramarital sex, necessarily.

What detrimental consequences? If a loving gay couple raise a child, that child comes out every bit as healthy as one with straight parents. The reason I brought up judgement is that aids is the only semivalid argument against homosexuality, by which I mean its the only real risk it poses to the people engaging in it.

One of my best friends is bisexual and lives with his bi girlfriend, who is more than happy for him to meet men if he wants to and she meets women. Theyre getting married soon, and are happy and healthy, as well as honest with eachother.

The trust that it requires to have that arrangement means that there is a security in their relationship which I think most people would envy.

I don't see that lifestyle of your friends as any display of real love or trust. Sounds more like they just use one another and others for their own physical indulgence and satisfaction.

I believe human beings were created male and female as image bearers of God and it is this male and female united as one in marriage which is meant to give a picture of God. Anything which is contrary to the way something/someone was designed to function would be detrimental. Distorting God's design or using sex as merely a means for physical satisfaction I think not only is harmful to the wholeness of a person, but also can never bring ultimate fulfillment.

Solutions are always found by creating or restoring a sense of design. Everything has a design—from the veins of a leaf to the mane of a horse, from a computer chip to Chicago’s Sears Tower, from a child’s toy to a supercharged Thunderbird. Everything has a design, a time, and a place. Everything demonstrates the existence of a creative mind behind the design. The same is true for our sexuality. It is the product of an all-wise Designer.
https://discoveryseries.org/courses/designed-for-desire/lessons/gods-design-for-desire/

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It’s my opinion, belief, knowledge, ect. I’m hoping everyone here can take it as such and not assume I’m condemning them or out to convert them. I couldn’t do either anyways.

Just want you to know, my partner and I have been together for many years. It is a match based in love. For the past 2 years (this weekend), I have been his caregiver after he came down with an autoimmune condition (NOT sexually transmitted) called Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS), which left him in hospital for a full 8 1/2 months, during which I ran up from work at lunch and dinner to feed him, since he was totally paralyzed. Sometimes GBS suffers recover in a few months, but in this case, because he has a variant called Acute Motor Axonal Neuropathy (AMAN), he will never get all his function back. Now, 2 years later he can walk short distances with a walker, or sometimes poles.

I wonder if it occurred to you that this is also part and parcel of "married" life. We never married in a ceremony (though in Canada we have been free to since 2005, but we're older, and grew up in an era in which was never going to play a part), but we are just as "married" as any other couple, and especially since we file joint tax returns and are recognized as "equivalent to married" by the Government of Canada. And if I were not in his life, as his recognized spouse, when he developed this horrible syndrome, through no fault of his own, and as he has no other family, who do you think would have been caring for him all this time?

This is what you wish for when you wish that gay people would "find Jesus and ask for help not to give in to temptation." You are also asking them to live their lives without the support of someone who loves them enough to support them through all the moments, good and bad, that life is prone to.

Do you really think that's what you want? Do you really think it's what God wants?

 

[Sky Rivers]

A "strange need to be proud" of who you are? Wow! You think the life a gay person would be so much better if they had the good sense to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, perhaps up to and including suicide? (Which, by the way, happens...very often to gay Christians and Muslims from repressive families.) You have some ugly thoughts, I think.

If a person thinks “who they are” is entirely defined by their sexual orientation, I question the solidity of their identity.

Why did you add to my original statements? Did I state homosexuals should be ashamed? Did I say they should be suicidal? I didn’t.

My thoughts are ugly to you? I don’t think you understand them enough to have an opinion, at least not one based on reality, since you prefer throwing red herrings, rather than actually reading and understanding... and discussing like an adult.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Just want you to know, my partner and I have been together for many years. It is a match based in love. For the past 2 years (this weekend), I have been his caregiver after he came down with an autoimmune condition (NOT sexually transmitted) called Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS), which left him in hospital for a full 8 1/2 months, during which I ran up from work at lunch and dinner to feed him, since he was totally paralyzed. Sometimes GBS suffers recover in a few months, but in this case, because he has a variant called Acute Motor Axonal Neuropathy (AMAN), he will never get all his function back. Now, 2 years later he can walk short distances with a walker, or sometimes poles.

I wonder if it occurred to you that this is also part and parcel of "married" life. We never married in a ceremony (though in Canada we have been free to since 2005, but we're older, and grew up in an era in which was never going to play a part), but we are just as "married" as any other couple, and especially since we file joint tax returns and are recognized as "equivalent to married" by the Government of Canada. And if I were not in his life, as his recognized spouse, when he developed this horrible syndrome, through no fault of his own, and as he has no other family, who do you think would have been caring for him all this time?

This is what you wish for when you wish that gay people would "find Jesus and ask for help not to give in to temptation." You are also asking them to live their lives without the support of someone who loves them enough to support them through all the moments, good and bad, that life is prone to.

Do you really think that's what you want? Do you really think it's what God wants?

Your care for your partner is commendable. I applaud it. Does it need sex or marriage? Not in my opinion.

No matter, this is all between you and God. My opinions are just that, my opinions.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'll believe you and the OP are fighters against injustice when:

* You stand for the millions of babies slaughtered under Roe v. Wade

Fetuses/embryos lack the attributes that define personhood, so no. Even the bible considered induced miscarriage a fineable offense rather than an "eye for an eye" death sentence.

* You loudly protest Christians martyred in the many thousands in the Sudan and elsewhere

What a silly strawman. No one has condoned such atrocities. Of course the civilized world condemns it.

* You stop assaulting fundamentalists, a persecuted and discriminated-against minority group on this forum and in America

How exactly are fundamentalists being "persecuted" and "discriminated" against? I think what you see as "persecution/discrimination" is actually just the feeling of butthurt from fundamentalists no longer having the power to deny others their rights and freedoms.

 

[InChrist]

Just want you to know, my partner and I have been together for many years. It is a match based in love. For the past 2 years (this weekend), I have been his caregiver after he came down with an autoimmune condition (NOT sexually transmitted) called Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS), which left him in hospital for a full 8 1/2 months, during which I ran up from work at lunch and dinner to feed him, since he was totally paralyzed. Sometimes GBS suffers recover in a few months, but in this case, because he has a variant called Acute Motor Axonal Neuropathy (AMAN), he will never get all his function back. Now, 2 years later he can walk short distances with a walker, or sometimes poles.

I wonder if it occurred to you that this is also part and parcel of "married" life. We never married in a ceremony (though in Canada we have been free to since 2005, but we're older, and grew up in an era in which was never going to play a part), but we are just as "married" as any other couple, and especially since we file joint tax returns and are recognized as "equivalent to married" by the Government of Canada. And if I were not in his life, as his recognized spouse, when he developed this horrible syndrome, through no fault of his own, and as he has no other family, who do you think would have been caring for him all this time?

This is what you wish for when you wish that gay people would "find Jesus and ask for help not to give in to temptation." You are also asking them to live their lives without the support of someone who loves them enough to support them through all the moments, good and bad, that life is prone to.

Do you really think that's what you want? Do you really think it's what God wants?

Thanks for sharing your journey and all you have been through with your partner.

Obviously, you have displayed very sacrificial, loving, and caring qualities. Certainly, I don't think God wants you, him, or anyone to be without love and support, especially during times of critical need. But I believe you are missing the point that God intended for an intimate, sexual relationship. The article linked below expresses it well, if you are interested. It is from a biblical perspective though, so if you if you don't acknowledge or believe in God, then it's understandable that you may not agree with the points it makes.

What's wrong with a stable gay relationship? | Living Out

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If a person thinks “who they are” is entirely defined by their sexual orientation, I question the solidity of their identity.

Why did you add to my original statements? Did I state homosexuals should be ashamed? Did I say they should be suicidal? I didn’t.

My thoughts are ugly to you? I don’t think you understand them enough to have an opinion, at least not one based on reality, since you prefer throwing red herrings, rather than actually reading and understanding... and discussing like an adult.

Well, sexuality is a large part of who we are as humans. We even define ourselves with identities in our languages through use of pronouns, through differences in spelling, and so forth. One of the 7 Catholic sacraments is dedicated to matrimony/marriage, when means that even the church considers it important. It takes up an inordinate amount of all of our human arts of every kind. Yes, sexuality is a very important part of my human identity. At different times in my life, it has been more or less important. When I was young, alone (no family and abandoned by the Children's Aid), love, affection, and yes, sex, were hugely important to me. Today, now that I'm a lot older and a lot more content, it is less so.

But I would never suggest that sexual orientation isn't a big part of who you are. It is.

In saying that it's a "strange need to be proud" of that orientation, then it certainly appears that you think it should be something else. In any case, I can tell you, as one of the very early participants in the Pride movement in Toronto, that "Gay Pride" was not our way of blowing up our egos with pride, but precisely the opposite. At that time (the early 1980s) and for all of our lives up until then, we had been told by society precisely that we "should be ashamed of ourselves." Pride Day was our way of saying: "Well, we're not, so get over it."

 

[Spartan]

Since archaeology is a recognized science, can I ask if this was ever published in a recognized journal for peer review?

I don't know. They have contact information to answer queries, though, if you have something.

 

[Spartan]

I don't find you a credible spokesman for God. Especially not the limited sort of god you and Genesis describe.
Tom

I should take that seriously because....?

And I'm not God's chosen spokesman. I'm a commentator on His Word.

 

[Spartan]

oh my! And you wonder why no one takes your claims seriously.

Peer review in archaeology is a real thing. If there was evidence for Sodom and Gomorrah you could find it in the peer reviewed literature.

When's the last time you consulted a peer-reviewed journal before you posted anything? There's nothing I've seen from you that would rise to that level.

 

[Subduction Zone]

When's the last time you consulted a peer-reviewed journal before you posted anything? There's nothing I've seen from you that would rise to that level.

That is only due to your ignoring refutations. The sources I use are at least based upon peer review and if challenged I can produce those articles. You use the worst possible sites. As you can see U am not the only one That noticed this.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Well, sexuality is a large part of who we are as humans. We even define ourselves with identities in our languages through use of pronouns, through differences in spelling, and so forth. One of the 7 Catholic sacraments is dedicated to matrimony/marriage, when means that even the church considers it important. It takes up an inordinate amount of all of our human arts of every kind. Yes, sexuality is a very important part of my human identity. At different times in my life, it has been more or less important. When I was young, alone (no family and abandoned by the Children's Aid), love, affection, and yes, sex, were hugely important to me. Today, now that I'm a lot older and a lot more content, it is less so.

But I would never suggest that sexual orientation isn't a big part of who you are. It is.

In saying that it's a "strange need to be proud" of that orientation, then it certainly appears that you think it should be something else. In any case, I can tell you, as one of the very early participants in the Pride movement in Toronto, that "Gay Pride" was not our way of blowing up our egos with pride, but precisely the opposite. At that time (the early 1980s) and for all of our lives up until then, we had been told by society precisely that we "should be ashamed of ourselves." Pride Day was our way of saying: "Well, we're not, so get over it."

Got it. What you do in the bedroom is a major part of who you are. It’s a major part of who many are. I still don’t get it. It’s still strange to me.

 

[Father Heathen]

I should take that seriously because....?

And I'm not God's chosen spokesman. I'm a commentator on His Word.

Is there much difference between putting words in god's mouth and regurgitating what others have put in God's mouth?

 

[columbus]

Is there much difference between putting words in god's mouth and regurgitating what others have put in God's mouth?

None, as far as I can see.

People like @Spartan keep claiming that they know more about what God thinks and wants than I do. But all they ever have to support that opinion is their opinion about which interpretations of which translations of which ancient literature written by ethically and morally primitive fallible humans.

I just don't find that very credible.
Tom

 

[Dan Mellis]

Prostate?
What Does the Prostate Gland Do?

I believe....
A man should find a woman
A woman that would be an inspiration to him
A woman who would take care of him
Because a man-woman relationship is natural and stable.

So which relationships are the least/most stable?

The gaps in the stability of same-sex and different-sex relationships are diminishing. Still, if you thought all relationships would show the same stability today, given the current legal and cultural climate, that is not the case: Overall, same-sex couples reported shorter relationship lengths than different-sex couples (Joyner et al., 2017). And male same-sex couples experienced significantly higher rates of dissolution than female couples or different-sex couples. This is consistent with previous findings: Gay and bisexual men are exposed to minority stressors that can de-stabilize relationships (Meyer, 2003; Lau, 2012). Where these men differ from women in female couples is in their engagement with protective factors: Many men do not emphasize emotional intimacy and minimization of boundaries to the extent that women do (Umberson, Thomeer, Kroeger, Lodge, & Xu, 2015).

https://www.psychologytoday.com/int...sex-or-heterosexual-relationships-more-stable

If someone designed guys the way we are then we are definitely intended to make use of our prostates haha. Dont knock it til youve tried it.

What difference does it make how long people stay together? If two guys meet in a hotel room and have some filthy fun and never speak again, presumably you'd still disapprove. But your 'research' would no longer apply so on what grounds would you disapprove?

The bottom line here is if it doesnt effect you or hurt anyone, stay the hell out of it. I can understand the pro life argument to an extent, but the anti gay one is just nonsensical.

 

[Dan Mellis]

I don't see that lifestyle of your friends as any display of real love or trust. Sounds more like they just use one another and others for their own physical indulgence and satisfaction.

I believe human beings were created male and female as image bearers of God and it is this male and female united as one in marriage which is meant to give a picture of God. Anything which is contrary to the way something/someone was designed to function would be detrimental. Distorting God's design or using sex as merely a means for physical satisfaction I think not only is harmful to the wholeness of a person, but also can never bring ultimate fulfillment.

Solutions are always found by creating or restoring a sense of design. Everything has a design—from the veins of a leaf to the mane of a horse, from a computer chip to Chicago’s Sears Tower, from a child’s toy to a supercharged Thunderbird. Everything has a design, a time, and a place. Everything demonstrates the existence of a creative mind behind the design. The same is true for our sexuality. It is the product of an all-wise Designer.
https://discoveryseries.org/courses/designed-for-desire/lessons/gods-design-for-desire/

You just dont have the right to assert that. They do love eachother deeply, and that transcends physical barriers that most would have. This is a classic example of not liking what you dont understand.

If we are all designed, as well as our sexuality, why does anal feel so good? That last paragraph is just a long claim without any evidence. "Look at the trees" is not a valid argument. We understand why the veins of a leaf have evolved and can track that evolution. The theory of evolution is a factual one - the theory of intelligent design is entirely baseless.

Take the human eye. We understand how it evolved, and can see the various stages of optical evolution in modern animals. Different versions of the eye exist. If we were designed in the image of god, why dont we have hawk eyes and gorilla strength? Why do some of us burn in the sun? To me, if we were created the creator is less of an "all-wise designer" and more an incompetent tinkerer.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Perhaps you didn't read the evidence for Sodom and Gomorrah being found.

Excerpt: "When the archaeological, geographical and epigraphic evidence is reviewed in detail, it is clear that the infamous cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have now been found. What is more, this evidence demonstrates that the Bible provides an accurate eyewitness account of events that occurred southeast of the Dead Sea over 4,000 years ago."

Associates for Biblical Research - The Discovery of the Sin Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah

New York is a real place, that doesn't mean the events depicted there in the Avengers actually happened.