• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Bacteria.

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
It would have divided many many times before it died. There would be lots of "daughter" cells then replicating themselves. This is how bacteria reproduce and how we expect the first lifeforms to have behaved.

I was not talking about bacteria , I was talking about first cell life form as some evolutis claim its origin of life .


one block? All block would died .
Same result : death, then start over from the beginning.so same result forever.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Are you thinking that the original cell's death somehow kills all of its offspring?
Note I referring to theory of life from one cell ,OK?

There would be no offspring in first place !

Why? could cell ( or block of cells) be pregnant ?
 
Last edited:

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
You are objecting to some idea that no one proposed.

I don't get it , can you elaborate?

Do you have other opinion, about that case?

But I think you don't believe in life origin from one cell, don't you ?

Note I edit my question

Why? Could cell( block cells) be pregnant ?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Pregnancy is not a word that applies to unicellular beings. They generally reproduce by mitosis instead.

And once an unicellular being reproduces, the offspring survive or die on their own.

Oh... maybe you think unicellular cells would die of old age, and so would their offspring?

That is not so. They are too simple to age as such.
 
Last edited:

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You missunderstand my point.
I was NOT talking about bacteria in that case, I was refering to the first living cell "protein" produced by bacteria. (which some evolutists claim it was origin of life)

Every single cell (protein) had one way out which is death "BYE BYE",where reproduce comes from since the first one is GONE ?
I don't think you know what a protein is, Godobeyer. There is no such thing as a "living protein." Proteins are not alive, they are long strings of molecules called amino acids, which form naturally, by simple chemistry.
A "first protein poduced by bacteria" doesn't make sense. Bacteria are already made from proteins, so how can they produce a first specimen of what they're already made of? The "first" protein appeared before any life existed.
Do you think and believe that the universe can be the product of nothingness, IOW
Nothingness reacted with nothingness and the result was a thing which was then the
start for everything?

It's either it was always nothingness or it was always a thing, but what that thing is and
why it always exists is the simpler option to find answers for, but nothingness can never
be a rational option, yes it's hard to understand how then that thing existed and always
existing, but it's the only right option because nothingness means nothing.
I think you're trying to apply commensense and everyday observations to quantum mechanics and cosmology. In reality, absolutely "impossible" things are always going on. Things pop into and out of existence, time slows, speeds up, or both at the same time. It flows backwards, mass increases and diminishes, and most of it we can't seem to find, though we know it must be there.

And what's the alternative?
It's the creationists who claim the universe was created by magic, from nothing -- exactly what you seem to be skeptical of. At least scientists are looking for and testing evidence and various natural mechanisms.


lol I
I find an article relate to my point :)

All Species Evolved From Single Cell

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-science-evolution-darwin-single-ancestor/

do you agree that all species evolved from single cell ?
The article discusses evidence that all three domains of life arose from a single population or species of cells. It doesn't discuss the origin of these first cells.

Consider: What constitutes a cell? Is a drop of oil encased in a membrane a cell? Is it alive?
What if an amino acid or two gets caught in or engulfed by the oil blob? These are parts of proteins. Is it alive yet? How complex does the mix have to get before it's considered a cell? What does it have to be able to do before it's considered alive ( the blobs already reproduce)?
It's all more complicated than a simple life -- non-life dichotomy. It's millions of molecules and molecular structures -- some with various lifelike features -- forming , breaking up, recombining; billions of times daily.
The "first" cell or 'first' life is an arbitrary point on a spectrum.
so one cell (independent cell) produce thousands of cells ?
... thousand of cells don't have reproduce system , so they gone/died in end , don't they ?
Do you understand how single celled organisms reproduce? They don't need to mate. They just grow to a certain size then split into two new cells, and on and on and on....
Do you understand exponential growth? any one single cell could produce millions in a single day.

failure (death) is the only way logically for one cell or thousand of cells don't have reproduce system.
But they do have a "reproductive system." See above.
Godobeyer, I get the impression you don't understand even the most basic principles of biology.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
I was not talking about bacteria , I was talking about first cell life form as some evolutis claim its origin of life .


one block? All block would died .
Same result : death, then start over from the beginning.so same result forever.
What does one block mean?

I think you've made a mistake in how you are thinking about this. The first cell would be capable of gathering resources and diving itself the same as any unicellular organism can today. Once the process of division occurs we have two cells - the mother and daughter cell. Both cells can then engage in the process of division. And so on.

Try this wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission_(biology)
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Except that the quran explained it in one other verse that the genetic code was made in the non living matter.
The quran says nothing about the genetic code. No-one on Earth at the time had any knowledge about genetics or any microbiology. You're doing some wildly imaginitive interpretation.
I don't know if agree that with theory that life began from one single cell?
If you believe in that, I proved it's impossible.
How did you prove that? You don't seem to understand anything about biology.
Why are biologists not aware of this disproof?
The origin reference (cell) is gone , how the "next" generations evolving !! , from death :D ?
There were millions of "original" cells. Some died, some produced populations that later died or were destroyed by other populations of "original" cells.
The point is, eventually only one type of cell won out, just like only one species of hominin survived, from the many that lived and went extinct.
The one remaining type of cell evolved into the many life forms we see today.
If there is one cell that multiplied before it died then it's different. Then it's x-1 after it died. Say if it divided 5 times, it would have 5 direct descendants and more grandchildren.
One cell, under ideal conditions, dividing every 20 minutes, can probably produce billions of cells in 24 hours. Exponential addition.
Sorry, don't want to take the time to calculate an exact number, but it would be a simple enough exercise with a calculator.
 
Last edited:

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Note I referring to theory of life from one cell ,OK?

There would be no offspring in first place !

Why? could cell ( or block of cells) be pregnant ?
:facepalm: How can you not understand how single celled organisms reproduce??????
Bacteria don't have sexes, they don't mate. They just split in two.

One becomes two, 2 becomes 4, becomes 8 becomes 16 becomes 32, 64, 128, 356, 512, 1024. They can split every 15 minutes under perfect conditions.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I think you're trying to apply commensense and everyday observations to quantum mechanics and cosmology. In reality, absolutely "impossible" things are always going on. Things pop into and out of existence, time slows, speeds up, or both at the same time. It flows backwards, mass increases and diminishes, and most of it we can't seem to find, though we know it must be there.

How things pop into existence from nothing, examples please

And what's the alternative?
It's the creationists who claim the universe was created by magic, from nothing -- exactly what you seem to be skeptical of. At least scientists are looking for and testing evidence and various natural mechanisms.

Creationists believe that the universe is a work of a plan and design, the contrary of the plan and design is
the chaos, coincidences, chances ..etc, you can fool yourself as much as you want but that won't change the reality.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
One cell, under ideal conditions, dividing every 20 minutes, can probably produce billions of cells in 24 hours. Exponential addition.
Sorry, don't want to take the time to calculate an exact number, but it would be a simple enough exercise with a calculator.
Yes. Sorry if it wasn't clear, but I was trying to simplify multiplication.

No,there would be no different even if cell multiplied it died, there would be no different because it's DIED .

Is cells are ONE BLOCK ?, if they mutiplied or divided where is the problem, they would ALL died at ONCE .because they are one block. :)
For one-celled organisms like bacteria they are separate individuals. Even in humans, when our cells die the other cells live. Our cells actually die a lot and get replaced with new ones. The skin falling off is just a small part of it.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
The quran says nothing about the genetic code. No-one on Earth at the time had any knowledge about genetics or any microbiology. You're doing some wildly imaginitive interpretation.

How can you judge the quran with no knowledge?
Did you read the whole quran and are you expert in the Arabic language as I'm?
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Creationists believe that the universe is a work of a plan and design, the contrary of the plan and design is
the chaos, coincidences, chances ..etc, you can fool yourself as much as you want but that won't change the reality.
The two views aren't as opposite as you might think. Coincidences over a long time period cause order and as we see from history and nature, order also leads to chaos.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
The two views aren't as opposite as you might think. Coincidences over a long time period cause order and as we see from history and nature, order also leads to chaos.

How coincidences after a long period of time will cause a designed outcome and not destruction? examples please
How plan and design leads to chaos?
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
How coincidences after a long period of time will cause a designed outcome and not destruction? examples please
Not a designed outcome, but something that is ordered. Examples are all around us, all nature. There are no exceptions.

How plan and design leads to chaos?
If you design make an item, it will start to decay immediately. Over time it will become "chaos". All temporarily ordered things tend toward chaos. If you are born you start to die from the beginning, in the end over time you become as dust. There are no exceptions.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Did you read the whole quran and are you expert in the Arabic language as I'm?
Why is it essential to know Arabic? We have scores of authoritative translations from people who are perhaps more qualified than you and translations given in Islamic websites. Yes, I have studied Qur'an (you do not even put 'Q' in Qur'an in capital/Block letter, that is for your scholarship). And it is what you will expect from a caravan leader from 7th Century who knew about Jewish and Christian views and based his view on them, except that he called himself as the last messenger of God.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Why is it essential to know Arabic? We have scores of authoritative translations from people who are perhaps more qualified than you and translations given in Islamic websites. Yes, I have studied Qur'an (you do not even put 'Q' in Qur'an in capital/Block letter, that is for your scholarship). And it is what you will expect from a caravan leader from 7th Century who knew about Jewish and Christian views and based his view on them, except that he called himself as the last messenger of God.

Do you know the quran better than I?
 
Top