The bible and gays

[JoStories]

Wow, that's scary.
Jo, we better watch out...
You saw it here, there are going to be consequences for being yourself.
Might want to change who you are entirely before it's too late, and you burn for forever.

Size was edited for Jo's benefit, keep scrolling.

LOL...thanks Death. You're not only funny, you are also very kind for increasing the font size. Kiss kiss love.

 

[JoStories]

[/COLOR]

DBD hi there , I`m new here , but can you tell me what philosophy and wisdom you would pass on to say ,your child, or someone who was struggling with say ,drugs or alcohol abuse,or fear and uncertainty,

I think we all deal with fear and uncertainty and that is particularly true of children. I would teach a child to try to understand their fears. And their uncertainty. I was bullied in high school rather badly and all those years ago, no one did a thing. But what I learned from that was to be stronger. See, my father was from Scotland. His father immigrated here in the late 30's and dad was a serious Scotsman. He felt that one learns from dealing with adversity and he was right. My sister is an alcoholic and drug addict, recovered for the most part, so I know a lot about that issue. I would offer support and a shoulder but I would not coddle her or enable her in any way.

 

[JoStories]

Thanks DBD for the welcome, I hate to tread on toes especially when I have just arrived, but your post is interesting, you`re very honest !

I wonder how others would answer the questions.

For the most part, everyone here is kind and will honor you and your faith but they will challenge you. I love many of the posters here. They are wonderful and learned people. We try to answer questions as we can but we are all inherently biased to some degree. And btw, welcome to RF! I find this place to be awesome most of the time. And also, just as an aside, there are a few who can be rude or trolls. Best to either ignore them or just smile and let them rant.

 

[JoStories]

Dear LEO613
You're asking why, why don't you ask God? Now people, you have been asking one another this question. Does anyone really know? It is like trying to put together a very complicated piece of machinery without consulting the instructional manual. The instructional manual in this case is the Bible.
The short answer is that homosexuality is a corruption of God’s creation. That is why God particularly hates the sin of homosexuality which resulted in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. See also God’s teachings in Leviticus 18, but in particular:- Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Furthermore the teaching has not been lost and is reiterated in Romans 1
Romans 1:26-27 (KJV)
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
When homosexuals lie with one another, that is not love. That is lust. Do you think that you can argue with God? If you do, in the end, you will lose. You must learn to fear God and live by His rules.
Christ’s prophet,
Certainty for eternity

All of this is your opinion and some is rather rude, to be honest. My relationship with my late partner was not even a little bit about lust. It was about love and caring and being there for her no matter what. I will never fear God, as I know of and understand God. You can fear God if you like but that mindset makes no sense to me at all. God is not to be feared but rather one to strive toward. And btw, God does not hate homosexuality. You can believe God does if that makes you happy but it is not true, or least IMO. God made me this way.

 

[chessplayer]

Quote ,,DBD ..
Seems as though you either didn't get my analogy or you do not wish to accept it, lol
Either way, we've gone way off topic.

Sorry my point was that any deviation from the broad plan is treacherous and chaotic, and I`m not just referring to any opinion about the LBGT community.

 

[chessplayer]

Quote from Jo S.....My sister is an alcoholic and drug addict, recovered for the most part, so I know a lot about that issue. I would offer support and a shoulder but I would not coddle her or enable her in any way.

The reason I asked that question to DBD was that Christianity for me fills in the gaps or needs that we have, but I was interested in other`s ideas.

We often look elsewhere for them to be met as above.

For example I play golf with a guy who was jailed for heroin possession or pushing , not sure which . He found that only by giving his life to Christ and allowing him to be his goal in life rather than his own philosophies was he satisfied with his life without drugs Each of us ,he says ,has a" God shaped space" that only Christ can fill !

I could go on with many other examples but I`m sure you get my drift !

 

[JoStories]

Quote from Jo S.....My sister is an alcoholic and drug addict, recovered for the most part, so I know a lot about that issue. I would offer support and a shoulder but I would not coddle her or enable her in any way.

The reason I asked that question to DBD was that Christianity for me fills in the gaps or needs that we have, but I was interested in other`s ideas.

We often look elsewhere for them to be met as above.

For example I play golf with a guy who was jailed for heroin possession or pushing , not sure which . He found that only by giving his life to Christ and allowing him to be his goal in life rather than his own philosophies was he satisfied with his life without drugs Each of us ,he says ,has a" God shaped space" that only Christ can fill !

I could go on with many other examples but I`m sure you get my drift !

I do understand Chess however, that being said, I don't think that always works. For me, it simply means that one is shifting the responsibility for being an addict to something else and not taking a self inventory of the faults that led that one to addiction in the first place. Its one of the things I really don't care for about AA. I realize it works for many but I would ask this. What if one loses that faith, for whatever reason? Do they then return to the lifestyle that ultimately would have killed them, or at least ended up with prison time? Being an addict is about self loathing, a lack of confidence, and trying to bury one's problem in drink or drugs. Instead, again IMO, the answers lie in addressing those issues and not simply 'giving it up to God'. I hope I am not offending you but as a career nurse, I have seen this all too often.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Quote ,,DBD ..
Seems as though you either didn't get my analogy or you do not wish to accept it, lol
Either way, we've gone way off topic.

Sorry my point was that any deviation from the broad plan is treacherous and chaotic, and I`m not just referring to any opinion about the LBGT community.

What you describe as treacherous and chaotic, I describe as natural and original.

 

[chessplayer]

Quote by JoS. I hope I am not offending you but as a career nurse, I have seen this all too often. ..

No problem , I agree , I`ve known one christian ( now passed away ) who started smoking at age 11, stopped , with no withdrawals when he became a Christian . Unfortunately someone offered him a cigar at Christmas ,three years later, hooked again , he was 40 a day till he died . He had a high pressure job , lots of stress and no exercise , so he was playing with fire . However I could introduce you to perhaps 50 people who successfully gave it up as well as some who were on drugs.

I was never a drug person, just lager , however even though I had a good job , nice car, etc I was dissatisfied and felt a bit "empty ". At about aged 24, I decided 3 months overlanding Africa would satisfy me , it didn`t.

Alcoholism and drug abuse in some cases ( that I`ve heard of ) are because of similar dissatisfaction and unfullfilled lives.

 

[sojourner]

Quote from Jo S.....My sister is an alcoholic and drug addict, recovered for the most part, so I know a lot about that issue. I would offer support and a shoulder but I would not coddle her or enable her in any way.

The reason I asked that question to DBD was that Christianity for me fills in the gaps or needs that we have, but I was interested in other`s ideas.

We often look elsewhere for them to be met as above.

For example I play golf with a guy who was jailed for heroin possession or pushing , not sure which . He found that only by giving his life to Christ and allowing him to be his goal in life rather than his own philosophies was he satisfied with his life without drugs Each of us ,he says ,has a" God shaped space" that only Christ can fill !

I could go on with many other examples but I`m sure you get my drift !

There's a line from an old Cheech & Chong sketch that's apropos here:
Street Evangelist: "Before, I was all messed up on drugs. But since I've found the Lord, now I'm all messed up on the Lord!"
Christianity doesn't magically "fill the empty spaces." Xy help to find the missing pieces that have broken off. It helps one to explore one's brokenness and integrate it as part of one's wholeness. IOW, it's realization that the whole pot is now comprised of broken pieces that have been joined together. The cracks still show.

 

[sojourner]

I do understand Chess however, that being said, I don't think that always works. For me, it simply means that one is shifting the responsibility for being an addict to something else and not taking a self inventory of the faults that led that one to addiction in the first place. Its one of the things I really don't care for about AA. I realize it works for many but I would ask this. What if one loses that faith, for whatever reason? Do they then return to the lifestyle that ultimately would have killed them, or at least ended up with prison time? Being an addict is about self loathing, a lack of confidence, and trying to bury one's problem in drink or drugs. Instead, again IMO, the answers lie in addressing those issues and not simply 'giving it up to God'. I hope I am not offending you but as a career nurse, I have seen this all too often.

Where spirituality helps is not in providing some "other piece to fill the void," but in directing us to embrace and explore the void, and learn to live with the gap as a normal part of what it means to be human. Spirituality directs us to realize that transformation from brokenness to wholeness doesn't smooth over the roundedness, making it disappear, rather, transformation incorporates the woundedness deeply into a new beginning. Jung says that wholeness is about "integration...but not perfection." it's about bringing into relationships the many parts of our lives, including our brokenness, so that we can experience transformation.

 

[Norman]

"You are so full of crap. That is all I got to say to you now."

Wow ! whether you agree with him or not , he is still made in the image of God and Jesus loves him died for him . Without love it`s all for nothing !

Peace

Norman: Hi chessplayer, welcome to RF. I hope you enjoy your stay with us. RF is awesome, fantastic and wonderful.

 

[Norman]

Dear LEO613
You're asking why, why don't you ask God? Now people, you have been asking one another this question. Does anyone really know? It is like trying to put together a very complicated piece of machinery without consulting the instructional manual. The instructional manual in this case is the Bible.
The short answer is that homosexuality is a corruption of God’s creation. That is why God particularly hates the sin of homosexuality which resulted in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. See also God’s teachings in Leviticus 18, but in particular:- Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Furthermore the teaching has not been lost and is reiterated in Romans 1
Romans 1:26-27 (KJV)
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
When homosexuals lie with one another, that is not love. That is lust. Do you think that you can argue with God? If you do, in the end, you will lose. You must learn to fear God and live by His rules.
Christ’s prophet,
Certainty for eternity

Norman: Hi Christ's Prophet, welcome to RF, I hope you enjoy your stay here. God Bless

 

[Norman]

In other words, no one is asking for "proof". But, if you can't explain the reasoning behind your beliefs in the validity of scripture with historical reasoning, you should do more research on the subject and test your faith. The Bible to the best of our current knowledge, for example, was written by unknown men who never met Jesus thousands of years ago, but still claim to speak for God. Doesn't that trouble you? Is it unreasonable to demand reasoning for overcoming this from those who grant the Bible validity?

Norman: Hi leibowde84, I am a bit confused here now, are you trying to argue now that the Bible is not a valid spiritual book? No it doesn't trouble me, I have believed in the Bible now for thirty years. To me it is a spiritual book other than the cultures, historicity, language, Geographic's, Demographics and poetic structure of the book. I find reading it is very soothing and relaxing to me and I can say that I get a lot out of it. When you say reasoning, aren't you really saying that I need to prove if the Book is true or not? Well, as I stated before to anyone, atheist, theism or whatever, I prayed to God thirty years ago if the Bible was true and if He was the author of it, I feel that I received an answer from the Holy Ghost, spirit to my spirit that it is the word of God. To me, there is no greater witness than from the Holy Ghost. Now, this may trouble a theist, atheist or whatever the orientation may be, however, there is no other way in my spiritual walk with God. As far as my faith and my Church, I do not have to test it at this point In my life, I have been living it now for thirty years. I am very active in my Church and have always been, I believe and know that Jesus Christ lives and that He is at the helm of my Church. For this I do not apologize or excuse myself for what I believe whether I can prove it at a secular level or I can't. Am I a sinner, of course I am, however, I believe because of the atonement of Jesus Christ I am able to repent and sin no more and be forgiven. I have made many mistakes in my life but I can't go backward only forward. I respect all belief's no matter what the affiliation is, however, I do consider myself an apologist of my faith, I have an will continue to defend it as I would defend the Bible. I hope we can continue to have conversations and I hope I have shown you respect and consideration and if I haven't please point out my faults and I will try to do better next time.

 

[Norman]

Ah..no, the Bible does not teach about homosexuality. It speaks about the one act of male to male sex and nothing more. And that is only found in the Tanach/OT and in Paulian Dogma.

Norman: I am confused here, you say the Bible does not teach against homosexuality and then in the next sentence you mention a homosexual act between two men that is condemned by the Lord. Then you seem to try and cover yourself by saying it is only found in the Tanach and then you throw in the Apostle Paul’s Dogma. What are you trying to say here?

Christ doesn't address it at all.

Norman: I have heard this cliché many times, as you stated JoStories “Christ doesn’t address it at all” meaning that only the words that Jesus actually spoke means everything and the words that He spoke thru his servants mean nothing. Logically this is not logical thinking at all because you are still believing these men Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Acts of the Apostles (Written by Luke) and John the Revelator who claim to have written down the actual words of Jesus. I will use an apostate Israel and the Prophet Amos to further support my arguments.

The Prophet Amos condemned Israel and chastised them for commanding there prophets not to prophecy. Apparently, Israel would have liked to silence these servants of God so that they could live every man according to his own way and feel comfortable in doing so. Whether by the Lord’s own voice or by the voice of his servants, it is the same. People want to try to explain this concept away by saying that Jesus only said this and that all that matters.

The prophets whose words are recorded in the Bible were anxious that their message be clear and comprehensible. God, has foreknowledge of all calamities (Amos vv 2–6), but He never sends a calamity unless He first notifies His prophet (s) of it (Amos vv 7; 15)

Amos 3:7Surely the Lord God‍ will do nothing, but‍ he revealeth‍ his secret‍ unto his servants the prophets.
Amos 7:15And the Lord‍ took me as I followed the flock, and the Lord ‍ said unto me, Go, prophesy‍ unto my people Israel.

I rest my conclusion “whether by the Lord’s own voice or by the voice of his servants, it is the same.”

And pointing to Lot does not lend a lot of credence here as he was a pedophile or at the least incestuous.

Norman: That is a new one to me, you are saying that Lot was a pedophile? This is by far the oddest interpretation of the story of Lot and his family that I have heard. How do you get the notion that Lot was a pedophile after reading the story of Lot?

 

[Norman]

The Bardo state, IMO, is the interim place we wait until we are reincarnated. We have a choice about whom we wish to be reincarnated to and what lessons we still need to understand. It is not like your heaven really. Like I said, an interim state. Reincarnation is mentioned, albeit in a round about way, in the Bible by Jesus with Elijah. Most argue that it is not saying that. Opinion is really all we have here so responding about your own opinion is fine.

Norman: What is the round about way that the Bible teaches reincarnation using Jesus and Elijah as an example?

 

[JoStories]

Quote by JoS. I hope I am not offending you but as a career nurse, I have seen this all too often. ..

No problem , I agree , I`ve known one christian ( now passed away ) who started smoking at age 11, stopped , with no withdrawals when he became a Christian . Unfortunately someone offered him a cigar at Christmas ,three years later, hooked again , he was 40 a day till he died . He had a high pressure job , lots of stress and no exercise , so he was playing with fire . However I could introduce you to perhaps 50 people who successfully gave it up as well as some who were on drugs.

I was never a drug person, just lager , however even though I had a good job , nice car, etc I was dissatisfied and felt a bit "empty ". At about aged 24, I decided 3 months overlanding Africa would satisfy me , it didn`t.

Alcoholism and drug abuse in some cases ( that I`ve heard of ) are because of similar dissatisfaction and unfullfilled lives.

I have no doubt of that chess however, that being said, simply putting spirituality in the place of this emptiness will not work. My sister is a prime example. She is a Christian and a full blown alcoholic and has been for years. No cannot simple fill this void with something intangible without also addressing why the void was empty in the first place.

 

[JoStories]

Norman: What is the round about way that the Bible teaches reincarnation using Jesus and Elijah as an example?

When Christ states that John the Baptist is Elijah, for one. "For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come." (Matthew 11:13-14)

 

[JoStories]

Norman: That is a new one to me, you are saying that Lot was a pedophile? This is by far the oddest interpretation of the story of Lot and his family that I have heard. How do you get the notion that Lot was a pedophile after reading the story of Lot?

What else do you call someone who sleeps with their own children?

 

[leibowde84]

Norman: Hi leibowde84, I am a bit confused here now, are you trying to argue now that the Bible is not a valid spiritual book? No it doesn't trouble me, I have believed in the Bible now for thirty years. To me it is a spiritual book other than the cultures, historicity, language, Geographic's, Demographics and poetic structure of the book. I find reading it is very soothing and relaxing to me and I can say that I get a lot out of it. When you say reasoning, aren't you really saying that I need to prove if the Book is true or not? Well, as I stated before to anyone, atheist, theism or whatever, I prayed to God thirty years ago if the Bible was true and if He was the author of it, I feel that I received an answer from the Holy Ghost, spirit to my spirit that it is the word of God. To me, there is no greater witness than from the Holy Ghost. Now, this may trouble a theist, atheist or whatever the orientation may be, however, there is no other way in my spiritual walk with God. As far as my faith and my Church, I do not have to test it at this point In my life, I have been living it now for thirty years. I am very active in my Church and have always been, I believe and know that Jesus Christ lives and that He is at the helm of my Church. For this I do not apologize or excuse myself for what I believe whether I can prove it at a secular level or I can't. Am I a sinner, of course I am, however, I believe because of the atonement of Jesus Christ I am able to repent and sin no more and be forgiven. I have made many mistakes in my life but I can't go backward only forward. I respect all belief's no matter what the affiliation is, however, I do consider myself an apologist of my faith, I have an will continue to defend it as I would defend the Bible. I hope we can continue to have conversations and I hope I have shown you respect and consideration and if I haven't please point out my faults and I will try to do better next time.

As I said before, I am not asking for "proof", but reasoning. And, you provided this to me with your comment. Thanks for your explanation.