leibowde84
Veteran Member
He has a point though. I went to all boys Jesuit high school and they openly welcomed debate about such things.
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The bible and gays
- Thread starter Leo613
- Start date
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Or who wrote the damn thing (no pun intended).
If regular people are equal with the Bible writers, then our words would not be questioned and every Human could declare without any negative words of others, that "we are our own Bible AKA The Word of God made Flesh."
I think the more Humans understand mystical and literal ancient writings and poetry and song lyrics of the last seventy years, the religious leaders will have to give up their "beliefs" that ancient writings contain more knowledge then modern teachings of the last one hundred fifty years.
Until that happens forums such as this and countless others along with religious exclusiveness will continue to flourish and divide the Human Race.
I think the more Humans understand mystical and literal ancient writings and poetry and song lyrics of the last seventy years, the religious leaders will have to give up their "beliefs" that ancient writings contain more knowledge then modern teachings of the last one hundred fifty years.
Until that happens forums such as this and countless others along with religious exclusiveness will continue to flourish and divide the Human Race.
Yes, that's the way to do it. Thank you for your understanding.
And belated welcome to RF
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chessplayer
Member
Sure but you get my point don`t you ? The Bible written by over 40 writers over 1500 years from Job ( around 3400 ago ) to revelation ( around 1900 yrs ago ), and despite all that diversity of input it has an amazing uniformity and ability to still speak today to anyone from any culture and does so each day all over the world.
We are even discussing it after all that time.
Many have gone before in history and tried to destroy it , see this quote from the web.
The antiquity of the Bible would be a marvel had men throughout the ages cherished It, and taken the very best of care to preserve It. But such has not always been the case. The enemies of Christianity have realized that the kingdom of God could not exist without the seed of the kingdom. Therefore, they have concentrated their efforts against Christianity in the direction of destroying the Scriptures.
Even in the New Testament, we read of those who violently sought to overthrow the cause of Christ. We read of disciples dying a martyr's death because of their faith. Early in the history of Christianity, Clement of Alexandria wrote, "Many martyrs are daily burned, crucified, and beheaded before our eyes." For many years Christianity was outlawed by the Roman government. From the time of Trajan (reigned 98-117) until Constantine (c. 300), virtually every one of the Roman emperors was opposed to Christianity.
And still it survives and prospers and changes lives each day .
chessplayer
Member
And a further quote from an article in the web.
The Bible has had many enemies. Even those that professed on some occasions to be Its friends under other circumstances turned enemy to It. During the middle ages, for example, the Roman Catholic Church burned thousands of copies of the Bible. But in spite of it, the Bible lives on. Voltaire, the noted French infidel, who died in 1778, made his attempt to destroy the Bible. He boldly made the prediction that within one hundred years the Bible and Christianity would have been swept from existence into oblivion. But Voltaire's efforts and his bold prophecy failed as miserably as did those of his unbelieving predecessors. In fact, within 100 years, the very printing press upon whicli Voltaire had printed his infidel literature, was being used to print copies of the Bible. And afterward, the very house in which the boasting Voltaire had lived, was literally stacked with Bibles prepared by the Geneva Bible Society. Voltaire and all his cohorts had miserably failed.
The Bible has had many enemies. Even those that professed on some occasions to be Its friends under other circumstances turned enemy to It. During the middle ages, for example, the Roman Catholic Church burned thousands of copies of the Bible. But in spite of it, the Bible lives on. Voltaire, the noted French infidel, who died in 1778, made his attempt to destroy the Bible. He boldly made the prediction that within one hundred years the Bible and Christianity would have been swept from existence into oblivion. But Voltaire's efforts and his bold prophecy failed as miserably as did those of his unbelieving predecessors. In fact, within 100 years, the very printing press upon whicli Voltaire had printed his infidel literature, was being used to print copies of the Bible. And afterward, the very house in which the boasting Voltaire had lived, was literally stacked with Bibles prepared by the Geneva Bible Society. Voltaire and all his cohorts had miserably failed.
chessplayer
Member
And more-
"Men have died on the gallows for reading it, and have been burned at the stake for owning it. Tortures too fiendish to describe have been visited upon delicate women and tender children for looking on its pages. Yet in spite of the strongest forces that Hell could unleash and in the face of the animosity of tyrants and despots, there are more Bibles in the earth today than there are copies of any other book ever written by the hand of man!" (Rimmer, op. cit. p. 15).
"Men have died on the gallows for reading it, and have been burned at the stake for owning it. Tortures too fiendish to describe have been visited upon delicate women and tender children for looking on its pages. Yet in spite of the strongest forces that Hell could unleash and in the face of the animosity of tyrants and despots, there are more Bibles in the earth today than there are copies of any other book ever written by the hand of man!" (Rimmer, op. cit. p. 15).
Precisely dear friend. And I loved that movie!! You said it so much better and more succinctly than I did!
That is not true Chess player. There's many faiths where God is reaching down to man. Santeria, in the form of Papa Legba, among others, and that is a manifestation of the face of God, not idolatry. Many Buddhists don't believe in God but I do and for me, that includes God reaching down to guide me on my path. Islam had God giving the word of Allah to Mohammed, Judaism had Moses and so on. So unfortunately, you are incorrect here.
Hundreds of books have survived even longer, such as the Vedas, the Upanishad, the Epic of Gilgamesh and so many more. Those books are incredibly special as well. The Christian community would love to see the Gospel of Thomas as never having been found but it was and it guides many.
You are correct about it being fiction and an allegorical tale of morality or the lack thereof. You know my issues with sexual abuse love, so for me its kind of a hot button thing. I agree they removed his control but why would a man allow his children to get him that drunk? The whole story, at least for me, is a tale of sexual immorality and teaching that children are to be taught, not them teaching the father, or at least doing what they did. Yes, it exonerates the man in that light. But ask yourself...why would be have allowed them to do this and then gotten to the point where he was that drunk that he slept with them?
But isn't that what happened with Thompson and some other person, its too damn early to get into my library, who wrote A Course in Miracles?? The book initially was allegedly anonymous but Thompson and the other wrote it some time ago and now it is used quite regularly by many people in concert with the Bible.
So does the Teaching of The Buddha, and the Tao Te Ching and the Quran and so many others.
chessplayer
Member
I wasn`t considering something based on Voodooism ( Papa Legba )as a world religion .
Buddhism is a non Theistic philosophy , ( with all due respect to your ideas ).
Islam is based on the the 5 pillars , if you do these right then you may or may not go to heaven .
However,
"God loved the ( fallen ) world so much , that he sent his son , so that all who trusted in Him would not perish but have everlasting ( abundant ) life, !" Jesus is a love gift from God !
"His Spirit will not always reach out to man" ( if a person continually rejects him )
chessplayer
Member
My point which I seem to be struggling to get across , is that every day , God through His Word , redeems people , gets them free from alcohol and drug abuse, fear, suicide, lifestyles which they hate but were unable to give them up previously.
I have no knowledge of much of this happening outwith Christ`s Biblical intervention .
chessplayer
Member
The book called “ Life Change “ contains 15 stories of men whose lives were transformed by God through Christ, Some were violent gangsters , some were desperate through drink and drug addiction but some were just looking for adventure, Some were top class sportsmen, but the link between all 15 men was the awareness that without god , something was missing .
chessplayer
Member
I play golf with a guy who was in prison for heroin pushing , then he found Christ , was delivered and set free . Now a businessman with two lovely kids and free from all addictions all through Christ.
The plumber who carried out the CH installation in my house was in jail for attempted murder , found Christ, got all sorted , now retired he goes to the streets and helps young people. He and his wife brought a street person home for the night 4 years ago and he is still with them .
John Caldwell in his book " The concrete Jungle " was a violent addict , got sorted by Jesus , is now a family man , a teacher , a part time minister, has a wife and two lovely kids , sorted by Jesus.
The plumber who carried out the CH installation in my house was in jail for attempted murder , found Christ, got all sorted , now retired he goes to the streets and helps young people. He and his wife brought a street person home for the night 4 years ago and he is still with them .
John Caldwell in his book " The concrete Jungle " was a violent addict , got sorted by Jesus , is now a family man , a teacher , a part time minister, has a wife and two lovely kids , sorted by Jesus.
I really do understand that from your POV, this is the only way and with all due respect, my point is that there are many more religions that do this as well. Eastern paths are just that, paths, and most preclude things like alcohol or drugs. I myself struggled with my life experiences before I found the Teachings of The Buddha. The Bible did nothing for me, and frankly, left me hating myself for so much guilt. I didn't find this with Buddhism, but rather an acceptance of my flaws and experiences as necessary for my journey. I get that for you, it is only Christianity that does this but from the POV of many others, it doesn't help.
First of all, mea culpa about mixing Santeria with Voodun. I had not had my coffee and it was about 4 or so AM. Now, as to your post here, Buddhism may or may not be Theistic. For me, it is. That is up to the person following the path. Islam still is based on someone getting their instructions through a prophet and handing them down to the followers, same as with Christianity. You believe that Christ was divine but that is pure speculation. No disrespect Chess player, but for many he was not. He was a great prophet, or at least, those things attributed to him and I do like those things. I particularly like the Sermon of the Mount. I recommend Matthew Fox's book on that. Its a great treatise on those teachings.
I'm sorry but this doesn't wash for me. I have worked in prisons. As an advanced practice nurse and there, a hitman for the Chinese mob who had killed men women and children for no better reason than they saw his face, swore to me he was going to heaven. He had found Christ you see. Sorry but for me, this man had accrued serious Dukkha. That is the Buddhism concept for suffering and Dharma, his need to repay for his mistakes. I also knew a man in that prison who had killed a man with a pencil. He was as close to the concept of evil as I can come. He was and is, if he has not died, a sociopath but he, too, claimed he was going to heaven. I don't buy that at all. In my beliefs, he would need several more lifetimes to sort out his mistakes, as with the first man.