The bible doesn't make sense

[InvestigateTruth]

I was talking about verse (7:163) and comparing it to verse (2:65)

I said by comparing both

As you can see the verse here(2:65) is not talking about the same people whom were living near the sea(7:163) that God punished them in their livelihood because of their lechery.

Ok, but still you have not made it clear how we know their transgression was lechery for the verse 2:65.

 

[roger1440]

Many verses in the bible doen't make any sense which makes me to believe that the bible was corrupted.

Matthew 4
8 Again, the devil taketh him unto an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him
all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 and he said unto him,
All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

On a high mountain he could see the whole world.
The Satan tempted God to worship him.

Matthew 5
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[a] will be
liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council;
and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[c] of fire.

If you say to your brother "you fool" then the punishment is hell fire


Matthew 5
31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of
divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife,
except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery,
and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Marrying a divorced woman is an adultery


Will add more verses, please share by adding verses which you think of it to be irrational.

(Matthew 5:31-32)
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
​

(Matthew 19:3-9)
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
​

In Matthew 5:31-32 the Jesus of Matthew’s Gospel is explaining the sanctity of marriage. It is more fully explained in Matthew 19:3-9. It is by God’s will that two get married. It is by man’s will two people are divorced. The very first commandment in the Bible is to “be fruitful and multiply”. Man and woman join and become one. This union is not only a sexual union but also a union of love. This joining of the two not only creates children but also godly offspring (righteous). Love is of God. What separates spouses is something that is not of God. It is best to separate what is not of a marriage then to separate the marriage itself.

Reconciliation is always superior to divorce. Moses had allowed divorce because of the hardness of the hearts of married couples. Hardness of heart is a heart so hard compassion, selflessness and forgiveness cannot penetrate it.

To be holy as God is holy we must cultivate forgiveness in our hearts. Israel is God’s spouse. According to Jewish scripture many times Israel had gone astray, but God was always willing to take Israel back. The book of Ezekiel gives a graphic account of Israel’s betrayal. No matter how many times Israel found another lover God always welcomed Israel back with open arms.

(Ezekiel 23:19-21)
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt.
20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.
​

Matthew’s Jesus permits divorce only for “sexual immorality”. It fails to explain what exactly sexual immorality is. My guess is that the two spouses cannot join to become one flesh. Therefore the two were not truly married in the first place. This sexual immorality may reside on the spiritual plain rather than the physical plain. It may pertain to the inability to unite with God.

The Bible is written on two levels of understanding. On the surface is the literal meaning. Hidden beneath that is an undercurrent of allegorical meaning that flows throughout the entire scriptures. There is the esoteric and the exoteric, the hidden and the revealed. It is by no mere coincidence the Jewish Bible opens with the same idea it closes with. That idea is one of union.

(Genesis 2:24)
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
​

(Malachi 2:14-16)
14 Yet you ask, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD acts as a witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you were unfaithful to her, your partner, the wife of your covenant.
15 Did he not make them one? And the vestige of the spirit remains in him. And why did he make them one? He was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and don't be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.
16 "Indeed, the LORD God of Israel says that he hates divorce, along with the one who conceals his violence by outward appearances," says the LORD of the Heavenly Armies. "So guard yourselves carefully, and don't be unfaithful."​

 

[Sees]

It doesn't feel strange and hypocritical to also follow a scripture with the same type of stuff in it?

You mention that you don't want to discuss the Qur'an here but you are pretty much begging for it.

More irrational verses

Matthew 21:21
And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea’, it will happen.


Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

 

[FearGod]

Ok, but still you have not made it clear how we know their transgression was lechery for the verse 2:65.

I didn't say it was lechery for verse 2:65,please note that I said that people in verse 2:65 aren't the same people of lechery that in verse 7:163

As you can see the verse here(2:65) is not talking about the same people whom were living near the sea(7:163) that God punished them in their livelihood because of their lechery.

 

[FearGod]

I think you have used a meaning from modern Arabic. It is universally known that the classical Arabic would be somewhat different than the modern Arabic.
But i think, it becomes clear by comparing these verses:


وَرَفَعْنَا فَوْقَهُمُ الطُّورَ بِمِيثَاقِهِمْ وَقُلْنَا لَهُمُ ادْخُلُوا الْبَابَ سُجَّدًا وَقُلْنَا لَهُمْ لَا تَعْدُوا فِي السَّبْتِ وَأَخَذْنَا مِنْهُم مِّيثَاقًا غَلِيظًا


"And We caused the Mount to tower above them at (the taking of) their covenant: and We bade them: Enter the gate, prostrate! and We bode them: Transgress not the Sabbath! and We took from them a firm covenant" an-Nisa` 4:154

وَاسْأَلْهُمْ عَنِ الْقَرْيَةِ الَّتِي كَانَتْ حَاضِرَةَ الْبَحْرِ إِذْ يَعْدُونَ فِي السَّبْتِ إِذْ تَأْتِيهِمْ حِيتَانُهُمْ يَوْمَ سَبْتِهِمْ شُرَّعًا وَيَوْمَ لَا يَسْبِتُونَ لَا تَأْتِيهِمْ كَذَٰلِكَ نَبْلُوهُم بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْسُقُونَ al-A`raf 7:163


It is obvious that when the phrase "لَا تَعْدُوا فِي السَّبْتِ" is translated as "do not transgress Sabbath", likewise the phrase "يَعْدُونَ فِي السَّبْتِ" must be also translated as "they transgressed the Sabbath". Because if we say يَعْدُونَ فِي السَّبْتِ means "they go to rest" as you said, then لَا تَعْدُوا فِي السَّبْتِ would also mean "do not go to rest", which makes the translation meaningless.
Therefore it becomes clear "The Sabbath" is a Law that God asked them not to transgress.
Now with regards to verse 2:65:

وَلَقَدْ عَلِمْتُمُ الَّذِينَ اعْتَدَوْا مِنكُمْ فِي السَّبْتِ فَقُلْنَا لَهُمْ كُونُوا قِرَدَةً خَاسِئِينَ al-Baqarah 2:65


It is obvious that according to Quran, those who transgressed "The Sabbath", God told them "Be Apes".
Now does that make any sense?

You asked for proof that the word يَعْدُونَ to means "to go" from any dictionary and when I did then your response was that the dictionary seems to be for modern Arabic.

Here is your own words

How did you know يَعْدُونَ means "they go"?
I think it means they transgressed. See any dictionary and show where it can mean 'They go" as you translated.

So i showed you the difference between the 2 words يَعْدُونَ & تَعْدُوا in the dictionary as you requested.

http://mymemory.translated.net/s.php?q=+تَعْدُوا+&sl=ar-SA&tl=en-GB&sj=all&of=all

http://mymemory.translated.net/s.php?q=يَعْدُونَ&sl=ar-SA&tl=en-GB&sj=all&of=all


So I can't proceed with your discussion anymore because I hate hypocrisy.
Sorry I don't have much time to waste.

 

[FearGod]

(Matthew 5:31-32)
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
​

(Matthew 19:3-9)
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
​

In Matthew 5:31-32 the Jesus of Matthew’s Gospel is explaining the sanctity of marriage. It is more fully explained in Matthew 19:3-9. It is by God’s will that two get married. It is by man’s will two people are divorced. The very first commandment in the Bible is to “be fruitful and multiply”. Man and woman join and become one. This union is not only a sexual union but also a union of love. This joining of the two not only creates children but also godly offspring (righteous). Love is of God. What separates spouses is something that is not of God. It is best to separate what is not of a marriage then to separate the marriage itself.

Reconciliation is always superior to divorce. Moses had allowed divorce because of the hardness of the hearts of married couples. Hardness of heart is a heart so hard compassion, selflessness and forgiveness cannot penetrate it.

To be holy as God is holy we must cultivate forgiveness in our hearts. Israel is God’s spouse. According to Jewish scripture many times Israel had gone astray, but God was always willing to take Israel back. The book of Ezekiel gives a graphic account of Israel’s betrayal. No matter how many times Israel found another lover God always welcomed Israel back with open arms.

(Ezekiel 23:19-21)
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt.
20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.
​

Matthew’s Jesus permits divorce only for “sexual immorality”. It fails to explain what exactly sexual immorality is. My guess is that the two spouses cannot join to become one flesh. Therefore the two were not truly married in the first place. This sexual immorality may reside on the spiritual plain rather than the physical plain. It may pertain to the inability to unite with God.

The Bible is written on two levels of understanding. On the surface is the literal meaning. Hidden beneath that is an undercurrent of allegorical meaning that flows throughout the entire scriptures. There is the esoteric and the exoteric, the hidden and the revealed. It is by no mere coincidence the Jewish Bible opens with the same idea it closes with. That idea is one of union.

(Genesis 2:24)
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
​

(Malachi 2:14-16)
14 Yet you ask, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD acts as a witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you were unfaithful to her, your partner, the wife of your covenant.
15 Did he not make them one? And the vestige of the spirit remains in him. And why did he make them one? He was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and don't be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.
16 "Indeed, the LORD God of Israel says that he hates divorce, along with the one who conceals his violence by outward appearances," says the LORD of the Heavenly Armies. "So guard yourselves carefully, and don't be unfaithful."​

So you believe that a woman divorced from her aggressive husband shouldn't marry anymore otherwise it will be an adultery.

Do you think that boyfriends and girlfriends acting as one flesh are all adulterers.

 

[Muffled]

Many verses in the bible doen't make any sense which makes me to believe that the bible was corrupted.

Matthew 4
8 Again, the devil taketh him unto an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him
all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 and he said unto him,
All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

On a high mountain he could see the whole world.
The Satan tempted God to worship him.

Matthew 5
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[a] will be
liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council;
and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[c] of fire.

If you say to your brother "you fool" then the punishment is hell fire


Matthew 5
31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of
divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife,
except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery,
and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Marrying a divorced woman is an adultery


Will add more verses, please share by adding verses which you think of it to be irrational.

I believe if you wish to edit God's word to suit yourself that you are an adversary of God.

I wouldn't bother because I believe additional non-sense won't help any.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You asked for proof that the word يَعْدُونَ to means "to go" from any dictionary and when I did then your response was that the dictionary seems to be for modern Arabic.

Here is your own words



So i showed you the difference between the 2 words يَعْدُونَ & تَعْدُوا in the dictionary as you requested.

تَعْدُوا - Arabic - English Translation and Examples

يَعْدُونَ - Arabic - English Translation and Examples


So I can't proceed with your discussion anymore because I hate hypocrisy.
Sorry I don't have much time to waste.

Your dictionary says, it means "Preparing". So you have not shown it means to go. Are you saying 'preparing' is same as 'going' ? Wowwwww that's a very accurate translation.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I didn't say it was lechery for verse 2:65,please note that I said that people in verse 2:65 aren't the same people of lechery that in verse 7:163

As you can see the verse here(2:65) is not talking about the same people whom were living near the sea(7:163) that God punished them in their livelihood because of their lechery.

I am not arguing if these are same people or not. So, how do you know people in 7:163 God punished them for Lechery?

 

[Muffled]

You are entitled to your own opinion.

You find the quran verses as irrational whereas I see the bible verses to be meaningless and I believe that it was corrupted.

No need to be nervous, we are only debating here and I don't believe that my opinions will hurt your own belief.

What I understand that you believe that the quran is more irrational than the bible and I disagree with you, unless you can prove it in scientific way than bla..bla..bla

I believe one can't get more irrational than that. Believeing something without an iota of rational evidence doesn't make much sense to me.

I don't believe science applies to words. Logic applies to words.

For instance science can find an earlier Bible that isn't corrupt but it hasn't. Logic says that the lack of an earlier version showing the late one corrupt indicates that the one we have is not corrup.

 

[FearGod]

Your dictionary says, it means "Preparing". So you have not shown it means to go. Are you saying 'preparing' is same as 'going' ? Wowwwww that's a very accurate translation.

OMG, if you know just simple Arabic then you can know what يعدون means just from the next words which is very clear and understood and which is وَيَوْمَ لَا يَسْبِتُونَ
which says when they don't rest which means "when going for fishing" then لَا تَأْتِيهِمْ which means the fish don't came when they go to work"وَيَوْمَ لَا يَسْبِتُونَ".

Do you believe that God is that harsh to punish someone simply for working in vacation day and you believe God to be kind and merciful.

How you think and believe that God is kind and merciful while he order a law to kill someone for going to work, is working a bad deed.

Do you believe in God because that make sense to you or just a blind faith, in other words if God asked us to kill anyone who works on Sunday, will you support that law and kill people in order to please your God.

You are supporting that law since you believe it to be from God but I am just wondering how you believe it and still love that God which looks so harsh.

 

[FearGod]

I am not arguing if these are same people or not. So, how do you know people in 7:163 God punished them for Lechery?

Didn't you read the verse

وَاسْأَلْهُمْ عَنِ الْقَرْيَةِ الَّتِي كَانَتْ حَاضِرَةَ الْبَحْرِ إِذْ يَعْدُونَ فِي السَّبْتِ إِذْ تَأْتِيهِمْ حِيتَانُهُمْ يَوْمَ سَبْتِهِمْ شُرَّعًا وَيَوْمَ لَا يَسْبِتُونَ لَا تَأْتِيهِمْ كَذَٰلِكَ نَبْلُوهُمْ بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْسُقُونَ

بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْسُقُونَ means "for the immoral things they used to do"

يفسقون - Arabic - English Translation and Examples

 

[InvestigateTruth]

OMG, if you know just simple Arabic then you can know what يعدون means just from the next words which is very clear and understood and which is وَيَوْمَ لَا يَسْبِتُونَ
which says when they don't rest which means "when going for fishing" then لَا تَأْتِيهِمْ which means the fish don't came when they go to work"وَيَوْمَ لَا يَسْبِتُونَ".

Well, I am not going to farther argue about the correct translation. I think I made some points, and that is totally up to you to have your own translation.

But, the correct translation is one thing, and weather or not God can order killing because of working on the Sabbath Day is another thing.
I think we need to be fair in our judgement to see the truth, even if that truth is against our desire.

Do you believe that God is that harsh to punish someone simply for working in vacation day and you believe God to be kind and merciful.

How you think and believe that God is kind and merciful while he order a law to kill someone for going to work, is working a bad deed.

Do you believe in God because that make sense to you or just a blind faith, in other words if God asked us to kill anyone who works on Sunday, will you support that law and kill people in order to please your God.

You are supporting that law since you believe it to be from God but I am just wondering how you believe it and still love that God which looks so harsh.

These are good questions, and for me requires long answer.
I think to understand Religion, we need to understand the circumstances and the time/place that a Revelation came. A Revelation and Law come in accordance with the requirements of the Age that those people lived in.

Now, if we think about the whole humanity on earth as One Body, generally, the Body of Humanity have been changing over time in terms of capacity to understand, civilization, sciences and social/economic system.
People who lived 6000 years were not at the same level as us today. Their way of life, everyday problems, their type of work, and many other things were quite primitive comparing to us.

It is believed that this World is like a school. Who is the Perfect Teacher?
God who manifested His Word, Will and commands through His messengers in every Age is like a Perfectly Wise Teacher of humanity.
A Perfect All-knowing Teacher would speak to a 5 year old child according to capacity of the child to understand. Same Perfect Teacher would speak differently to a child in grade 2, and again would talk differently to a grade 10 teenager...
A Perfect Teacher would not speak to a grade 2 student, with the level of grade 10 student.
Now, if we go back to analogy of Body of Humanity, those who lived 3000 years ago in comparison to Us, is like a 5 years old child to a teenager.
Therefore God who manifested Himself through Moses spoke to them in their own level of understanding. So for example it is written in Hebrew Scriptures:

"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God...." Exodus 20:5

Is God really jealous? We don't believe He is, because in later Revelations, He manifested Himself differently. But He spoke to those people of old in accordance with their understanding, so His message may be accepted and understood by them.

And Just as their capacity to understand was different, so was their ways of life, and problems. So, for example, at the time of Jesus, it was men who worked outside, and women were dependent on men.
When Jesus came, the Jews were divorcing their wives for wrong reasons, and perhaps causing those women to sell their body, because in those days, there wasn't diversity of jobs for women the way it is now, and by divorcing them some of those women were forced to sell their bodies. "Under this circumstances" Jesus announced a restrict law for divorce.
But today we live in a different Age, those Laws of old are not required and suitable for our time. This is the reason they don't make sense now, but in their own time, and for the specific situation and circumstances, they were perfect and wise. That these Laws do not make sense for our time, is no proof they were not suitable in their own time, neither is a proof the Book got corrupted, neither is a proof the Book is not from a loving kind God.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Many verses in the bible doen't make any sense which makes me to believe that the bible was corrupted.

Matthew 4
8 Again, the devil taketh him unto an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him
all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 and he said unto him,
All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

On a high mountain he could see the whole world.
The Satan tempted God to worship him.

Matthew 5
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[a] will be
liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council;
and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[c] of fire.

If you say to your brother "you fool" then the punishment is hell fire


Matthew 5
31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of
divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife,
except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery,
and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Marrying a divorced woman is an adultery


Will add more verses, please share by adding verses which you think of it to be irrational.

 

[iamsharky789]

Terrible...just like the quran.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Terrible...just like the quran.

This.

 

[FearGod]

Terrible...just like the quran.

Be brave enough then and start a thread to show us the terrible contradictions in the quran.

The quran said that people had distorted the bible and as we can see we got no answers except a silly ones similar to your comment.

 

[allright]

Many verses in the bible doen't make any sense which makes me to believe that the bible was corrupted.

Matthew 4
8 Again, the devil taketh him unto an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him
all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 and he said unto him,
All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

On a high mountain he could see the whole world.
The Satan tempted God to worship him.

Matthew 5
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[a] will be
liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council;
and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[c] of fire.

If you say to your brother "you fool" then the punishment is hell fire


Matthew 5
31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of
divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife,
except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery,
and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Marrying a divorced woman is an adultery


Will add more verses, please share by adding verses which you think of it to be irrational.

I see: anything that doesnt make sense to you must be false Therefore you claim to have perfect knowledge and understanding of everything

 

[FearGod]

I see: anything that doesnt make sense to you must be false Therefore you claim to have perfect knowledge and understanding of everything

That is only your conclusion, so I understand that it makes sense to you.

 

[iamsharky789]

Be brave enough then and start a thread to show us the terrible contradictions in the quran.

The quran said that people had distorted the bible and as we can see we got no answers except a silly ones similar to your comment.

The quran is one of the most vauge backgrounds in the history of abrahamic literature. There is no authenticity behind having peoplewrite down and memorize it and then claiming it had never been changed or edited. I know the bible is a fairytale tale. That is a fact. But to claim that quran is any better is a outright lie. I don't get why the bible gets trashed, even though it's just a fiction book, but the quran gets a pass because of the violent nature of adherents and their physical assaults on anyone who question the book throughout history.