The Big Bang Theory is dead.

[YoursTrue]

Look at the video above.

Sorry, I looked for it again but couldn't find it, can you please post it again? Also I want to say that I've previously read assertions by scientists that they know the Common Ancestor but it's still conjecture. Cant remember where it was. I looked it up one time. I will say that close genetic details do not necessarily mean these organisms evolved.

 

[YoursTrue]

But the evidence shows otherwise.

Anyway, billions of years for evolution to have occurred from abiogenesis is a very long time. How do they know it's billions of years?

 

[ratiocinator]

Sorry, I looked for it again but couldn't find it, can you please post it again

Also I want to say that I've previously read assertions by scientists that they know the Common Ancestor but it's still conjecture

This is untrue. None of it is conjecture. There is endless solid, conclusive evidence that I know you have been given but refuse to accept due to your blind faith in the bible.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is untrue. None of it is conjecture. There is endless solid, conclusive evidence that I know you have been given but refuse to accept due to your blind faith in the bible.

That you say none of it is conjecture makes me wonder about your assessment of things. My faith is not blind but reasonable, just as you believe your faith is reasonable and not blind. You have faith that scientists are able to explain the process of the theory of evolution. Even if their assessments of the evidence change from time to time, right?

 

[YoursTrue]

This is untrue. None of it is conjecture. There is endless solid, conclusive evidence that I know you have been given but refuse to accept due to your blind faith in the bible.

ok. we have, according to the lecturer 23 chromosomes from mom and 23 from dad. 46 altogether. Then he says we have two fewer chromosomes than the other great apes. Chimps, gorillas and orangatans have 46 chromosomes. He then says that everybody in the room is MISSING a pair of chromosomes. Missing? Hmm, I wonder -- missing?? Yes, he seems to say. And again I say humans with that so-called missing pair of chromosomes have the ability to train doctors, invent microscopes, reading, writing and arithmetic.
OK, then goes on to postulate (yes I say postulate because he says "what must have happened") that there was fusion somewhere. Now this is kind of where I stop following for a while because it truly doesn't make sense. Why doesn't it make sense to me? Because where and when did that so-called fusion occur? (He gives a long mathematical list.)
Yet the gorillas, chimps and orangatans have 48 chromosomes and are distinctly different from these apes. Now he does say he's a theist but this revelation about the fusion tells him something about our ancestry. The discovery of a fusion with one pair of chromosomes does not lead to discovering a common ancestor among all of these types of distinct apes as far as I see. Apparently this purported common ancestor has not been identified or found.

 

[Subduction Zone]

ok. we have, according to the lecturer 23 chromosomes from mom and 23 from dad. 46 altogether. Then he says we have two fewer chromosomes than the other great apes. Chimps, gorillas and orangatans have 46 chromosomes. He then says that everybody in the room is MISSING a pair of chromosomes. Missing? Hmm, I wonder -- missing?? Yes, he seems to say. And again I say humans with that so-called missing pair of chromosomes have the ability to train doctors, invent microscopes, reading, writing and arithmetic.
OK, then goes on to postulate (yes I say postulate because he says "what must have happened") that there was fusion somewhere. Now this is kind of where I stop following for a while because it truly doesn't make sense. Why doesn't it make sense to me? Because where and when did that so-called fusion occur? (He gives a long mathematical list.)
Yet the gorillas, chimps and orangatans have 48 chromosomes and are distinctly different from these apes. Now he does say he's a theist but this revelation about the fusion tells him something about our ancestry. The discovery of a fusion with one pair of chromosomes does not lead to discovering a common ancestor among all of these types of distinct apes as far as I see. Apparently this purported common ancestor has not been identified or found.

Chromosomes come in pairs. We have two of each chromosomes. In other words we have 46 chromosome, or 23 pairs of them. The reason they are counted as pairs is that the two chromosomes in each pair is almost identical to the other. They have the same genes in the same order, but they will have different alleles (variations) of those genes.

And compared to other great apes it does look as if we are missing a pair of chromosomes since we have one fewer pair than they do.

But there is an answer. Scientists know that related species, some off them very closely related, can have a different number of chromosomes. That is because chromosomes can split or join. Zebras for example can have from 32 to 46 chromosomes. Horses have 64 or 66 chromosomes. Many of these can interbreed, though the offspring tend to be streile:

Zebroid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The point is that in our chromosome number 2, and there are two of them, we can find where the join is. Two of our chromosomes fused in the past. We can see the remnants of the telomeres and centromeres within the chromosome.

 

[YoursTrue]

Chromosomes come in pairs. We have two of each chromosomes. In other words we have 46 chromosome, or 23 pairs of them. The reason they are counted as pairs is that the two chromosomes in each pair is almost identical to the other. They have the same genes in the same order, but they will have different alleles (variations) of those genes.

And compared to other great apes it does look as if we are missing a pair of chromosomes since we have one fewer pair than they do.

But there is an answer. Scientists know that related species, some off them very closely related, can have a different number of chromosomes. That is because chromosomes can split or join. Zebras for example can have from 32 to 46 chromosomes. Horses have 64 or 66 chromosomes. Many of these can interbreed, though the offspring tend to be streile:

Zebroid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The point is that in our chromosome number 2, and there are two of them, we can find where the join is. Two of our chromosomes fused in the past. We can see the remnants of the telomeres and centromeres within the chromosome.

How can we be missing a pair of chromosomes if we are complete? Are we complete? Maybe it was just a term, but can't figure how anyway we are "missing" a pair. Sounds pretty good to me though that humans can add, subtract, build hospitals, read and write with those missing chromosomes. And of course, gorillas, etc. may not feel the need to do those things. Right? OK, when I was a teenager I loved to climb trees. I wouldn't mind swinging from trees, but I am what I am. Would I like to compose music, play an instrument AND swing from trees? Maybe. But I gotta get used to being in this body and concentrate on what I can do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How can we be missing a pair of chromosomes if we are complete? Are we complete?

We are not missing a pair. That was the point. Zebras are not missing chromosomes. They can split and join. Our number 2 chromosome matches to two chromosomes in other great apes if we add them together in a head to head join.

Genomic Structure and Evolution of the Ancestral Chromosome Fusion Site in 2q13–2q14.1 and Paralogous Regions on Other Human Chromosomes

Human chromosome 2 was formed by the head-to-head fusion of two ancestral chromosomes that remained separate in other primates. Sequences that once resided near the ends of the ancestral chromosomes are now interstitially located in 2q13–2q14.1. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[YoursTrue]

Chromosomes come in pairs. We have two of each chromosomes. In other words we have 46 chromosome, or 23 pairs of them. The reason they are counted as pairs is that the two chromosomes in each pair is almost identical to the other. They have the same genes in the same order, but they will have different alleles (variations) of those genes.

And compared to other great apes it does look as if we are missing a pair of chromosomes since we have one fewer pair than they do.

But there is an answer. Scientists know that related species, some off them very closely related, can have a different number of chromosomes. That is because chromosomes can split or join. Zebras for example can have from 32 to 46 chromosomes. Horses have 64 or 66 chromosomes. Many of these can interbreed, though the offspring tend to be streile:

Zebroid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The point is that in our chromosome number 2, and there are two of them, we can find where the join is. Two of our chromosomes fused in the past. We can see the remnants of the telomeres and centromeres within the chromosome.

Meantime, no particular organism identified as the Common Ancestor. Maybe it was knocked out by an earthquake.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Meantime, no particular organism identified as the Common Ancestor. Maybe it was knocked out by an earthquake.

Why would you expect us to find that ancestor? Your post makes no sense.

 

[Polymath257]

Anyway, billions of years for evolution to have occurred from abiogenesis is a very long time. How do they know it's billions of years?

We’ve gone over that many times. There are a variety of ways to get the age of rocks and fossils. The oldest life we have records of occurs in rocks that are 3.8 billion years old.

 

[Polymath257]

ok. we have, according to the lecturer 23 chromosomes from mom and 23 from dad. 46 altogether. Then he says we have two fewer chromosomes than the other great apes. Chimps, gorillas and orangatans have 46 chromosomes.

48

He then says that everybody in the room is MISSING a pair of chromosomes. Missing? Hmm, I wonder -- missing?? Yes, he seems to say. And again I say humans with that so-called missing pair of chromosomes have the ability to train doctors, invent microscopes, reading, writing and arithmetic.
OK, then goes on to postulate (yes I say postulate because he says "what must have happened") that there was fusion somewhere. Now this is kind of where I stop following for a while because it truly doesn't make sense. Why doesn't it make sense to me? Because where and when did that so-called fusion occur? (He gives a long mathematical list.)
Yet the gorillas, chimps and orangatans have 48 chromosomes and are distinctly different from these apes. Now he does say he's a theist but this revelation about the fusion tells him something about our ancestry. The discovery of a fusion with one pair of chromosomes does not lead to discovering a common ancestor among all of these types of distinct apes as far as I see. Apparently this purported common ancestor has not been identified or found.

And he answered the question of where that fusion occurred. You see, he made a prediction based on the chromosome numbers that two pairs fused into one pair.

Then he looked at our chromosomes and found where the fusion occurred and why we know it was a fusion.

Usually, chromosomes have one centromere and two telomeres ( repeated sequences of DNA) at both ends. In human chromosome 2, however, there are two centromeres ( one inactive) and three telomeres, one in the middle of the chromosome and twice as big as usual. This is exactly what would be expected of there was a merge. Furthermore, we can compare the genes on those chromosomes with those on chromosomes in chimps and determine which chimp chromosomes merged to make human chromosome 2.

Finally, there is no reason why there would be two centromeres and three telomeres unless two chromosomes merged.

So we have the following sequence of events: it was found that humans have 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs and most great apes have 48 in 24 pairs. That leads to the prediction that two pairs of chromosomes merged in the human line.

Then it was found that human chromosome 2 has exactly the characteristics that would be expected from such s as merge and the genes on that chromosomes are those on two of the ape chromosomes. Furthermore, the placement of genes in the ape chromosomes lines up with the human chromosome if there was a merge. Finally, there is no reason for the human chromosome to have the characteristics it has unless it was a merge from two previous chromosomes in the past.

Now, if you object to the conclusion that the chromosomes merged and that shows a common ancestor with the other apes and humans, you need to explain these facts. In particular, you need to explain why human chromosome 2 has two centromeres and three telomeres when chromosomes usually have one centromere and two telomeres. You would also need to explain why the genes in the chromosomes line up as if there was a merger.

 

[John53]

48

And he answered the question of where that fusion occurred. You see, he made a prediction based on the chromosome numbers that two pairs fused into one pair.

Then he looked at our chromosomes and found where the fusion occurred and why we know it was a fusion.

Usually, chromosomes have one centromere and two telomeres ( repeated sequences of DNA) at both ends. In human chromosome 2, however, there are two centromeres ( one inactive) and three telomeres, one in the middle of the chromosome and twice as big as usual. This is exactly what would be expected of there was a merge. Furthermore, we can compare the genes on those chromosomes with those on chromosomes in chimps and determine which chimp chromosomes merged to make human chromosome 2.

Finally, there is no reason why there would be two centromeres and three telomeres unless two chromosomes merged.

So we have the following sequence of events: it was found that humans have 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs and most great apes have 48 in 24 pairs. That leads to the prediction that two pairs of chromosomes merged in the human line.

Then it was found that human chromosome 2 has exactly the characteristics that would be expected from such s as merge and the genes on that chromosomes are those on two of the ape chromosomes. Furthermore, the placement of genes in the ape chromosomes lines up with the human chromosome if there was a merge. Finally, there is no reason for the human chromosome to have the characteristics it has unless it was a merge from two previous chromosomes in the past.

Now, if you object to the conclusion that the chromosomes merged and that shows a common ancestor with the other apes and humans, you need to explain these facts. In particular, you need to explain why human chromosome 2 has two centromeres and three telomeres when chromosomes usually have one centromere and two telomeres. You would also need to explain why the genes in the chromosomes line up as if there was a merger.

Thank you, easy enough explanation for even me with a limited education to understand.

 

[YoursTrue]

We’ve gone over that many times. There are a variety of ways to get the age of rocks and fossils. The oldest life we have records of occurs in rocks that are 3.8 billion years old.

If I believe that, I'd have to believe the conclusions from what scientists view as evidence. I have questions about things like artifacts and as some know, deposits from lava, etc. As well as landslides and other things that can literally muddy up the water. Or dating process. Not saying the rocks, etc. on the earth or what composes the planet without life is not billions of years old. Meantime I still feel that the opportunities humans have to examine, investigate, build hospitals, teach doctors, make charts and maps, etc. leads me (not everyone, I suppose) to believe there is a God, a higher power that made man to wonder and think about these things. No response has convinced me otherwise.

 

[YoursTrue]

Thank you, easy enough explanation for even me with a limited education to understand.

Except that it's conjecture as to a common ancestor. We're missing a set of chromosomes...says the scientist. They disappeared, or went the way of all flesh or the mystery of the missing set. And yet along with those so-called missing chromosomes we as humans can read, write, figure decimals and things like quantum physics. I guess the extra chromosomes in gorillas, chimps and orangatans don't give them the opportunity to build bicycles, invent cars, etc. Or maybe they figure without telling humans, hey, why bother with ruining the atomosphere or building bicycles? Let those humans with missing chromosomes do it. Those missing chromosomes sure make a difference.

 

[YoursTrue]

48

And he answered the question of where that fusion occurred. You see, he made a prediction based on the chromosome numbers that two pairs fused into one pair.

Then he looked at our chromosomes and found where the fusion occurred and why we know it was a fusion.

Usually, chromosomes have one centromere and two telomeres ( repeated sequences of DNA) at both ends. In human chromosome 2, however, there are two centromeres ( one inactive) and three telomeres, one in the middle of the chromosome and twice as big as usual. This is exactly what would be expected of there was a merge. Furthermore, we can compare the genes on those chromosomes with those on chromosomes in chimps and determine which chimp chromosomes merged to make human chromosome 2.

Finally, there is no reason why there would be two centromeres and three telomeres unless two chromosomes merged.

So we have the following sequence of events: it was found that humans have 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs and most great apes have 48 in 24 pairs. That leads to the prediction that two pairs of chromosomes merged in the human line.

Then it was found that human chromosome 2 has exactly the characteristics that would be expected from such s as merge and the genes on that chromosomes are those on two of the ape chromosomes. Furthermore, the placement of genes in the ape chromosomes lines up with the human chromosome if there was a merge. Finally, there is no reason for the human chromosome to have the characteristics it has unless it was a merge from two previous chromosomes in the past.

Now, if you object to the conclusion that the chromosomes merged and that shows a common ancestor with the other apes and humans, you need to explain these facts. In particular, you need to explain why human chromosome 2 has two centromeres and three telomeres when chromosomes usually have one centromere and two telomeres. You would also need to explain why the genes in the chromosomes line up as if there was a merger.

I am not particulary wondering about how he figured the fusion. Like I say, what a difference a fusion makes...and again -- no discovery of that unknown common ancestor, perhaps as I have said it went away in a tsunami or earthquake... Leaving their offspring behind. Chimps remain chimpsn, gorillas remain gorillas and of course, humans remain humans. still no trace of that so-called common ancestor.

 

[McBell]

Except that it's conjecture as to a common ancestor. We're missing a set of chromosomes...says the scientist. They disappeared, or went the way of all flesh or the mystery of the missing set. And yet along with those so-called missing chromosomes we as humans can read, write, figure decimals and things like quantum physics. I guess the extra chromosomes in gorillas, chimps and orangatans don't give them the opportunity to build bicycles, invent cars, etc. Or maybe they figure without telling humans, hey, why bother with ruining the atomosphere or building bicycles? Let those humans with missing chromosomes do it. Those missing chromosomes sure make a difference.

You are the one who is hung up on "missing" chromosomes.
Even after it being explained to you that they are not "missing".

 

[McBell]

Thank you, easy enough explanation for even me with a limited education to understand.

Ditto.
Though apparently not easy enough for some others....

 

[Polymath257]

Except that it's conjecture as to a common ancestor. We're missing a set of chromosomes...says the scientist. They disappeared, or went the way of all flesh or the mystery of the missing set. And yet along with those so-called missing chromosomes we as humans can read, write, figure decimals and things like quantum physics. I guess the extra chromosomes in gorillas, chimps and orangatans don't give them the opportunity to build bicycles, invent cars, etc. Or maybe they figure without telling humans, hey, why bother with ruining the atomosphere or building bicycles? Let those humans with missing chromosomes do it. Those missing chromosomes sure make a difference.

No, it appears that we are missing chromosomes. But they are there as a merge of two ape chromosomes in one human chromosome.

 

[Polymath257]

If I believe that, I'd have to believe the conclusions from what scientists view as evidence. I have questions about things like artifacts and as some know, deposits from lava, etc. As well as landslides and other things that can literally muddy up the water. Or dating process. Not saying the rocks, etc. on the earth or what composes the planet without life is not billions of years old. Meantime I still feel that the opportunities humans have to examine, investigate, build hospitals, teach doctors, make charts and maps, etc. leads me (not everyone, I suppose) to believe there is a God, a higher power that made man to wonder and think about these things. No response has convinced me otherwise.

Humans have an ancestor with 48 chromosomes in 24 pairs. Two of those pairs merged to give one pair. So now we have 23.

That merger was predicted because the other great apes have 48 chromosomes and not 46 so it *looks * like we are missing two. But we are not.