The birth of the state of Israel and God's promise in the end times

[Tumah]

The quran mentioned there will be walls dividing Jews and Muslims and wars will be behind these walls
at the end times, the wars won't be face to face as the Jews will fight from behind these walls.

Just coincidences.

In that case I for sure don't know what it is referring to.
The only direct fighting from behind a wall I can think of once when some Muslims were standing atop the Western Wall dropping stones on the people praying below and the army gathered to shoot back.

Do you think it was talking about that time?

 

[Akivah]

How is reasonable that the birth of state is sign of end of times ?
if it's TRUE , why some Jews run after this promise ,since they knew it's will lead to end this life ?

as I know , Israel built and destructed before thousands of years .

Shalom Godobeyer

You quoted a Christian belief and then asked why Jews run after that belief. For accuracy, you should ask what Judaism's beliefs are on this matter. We don't have a belief that the world is going to end. Rather, we believe the Earth will be perfected. There will be World peace and Heaven on Earth. That's the promises that we run after.

 

[FearGod]

In that case I for sure don't know what it is referring to.
The only direct fighting from behind a wall I can think of once when some Muslims were standing atop the Western Wall dropping stones on the people praying below and the army gathered to shoot back.

Do you think it was talking about that time?

Did i say the war started?
But the fact is that the Jews built the walls.

 

[FearGod]

Shalom Godobeyer

You quoted a Christian belief and then asked why Jews run after that belief. For accuracy, you should ask what Judaism's beliefs are on this matter. We don't have a belief that the world is going to end. Rather, we believe the Earth will be perfected. There will be World peace and Heaven on Earth. That's the promises that we run after.

And some bombs and warplanes are needed for the heaven on earth.

 

[Augustus]

Did Israel build a wall other than the recent wall ? it's mentioned in the quran that a wall will be
built between Muslims and the Jews ?

Can you quote the verses please?

In the 7th C though there were a lot of walls, they were on the outside of cities. In the Sirah the Muslims used siege engines in the siege of Taif for example. Strangely enough (well rather predictably really) they were Roman siege engines.

 

[tjgillies]

Was it just a coincidence or a real promise that had occurred according to God's plan?
What do you think?

In the Baha'i faith we believe that the New Jerusalem, the literal kingdom of God on this planet is in Haifa Israel.

 

[FearGod]

Can you quote the verses please?

In the 7th C though there were a lot of walls, they were on the outside of cities. In the Sirah the Muslims used siege engines in the siege of Taif for example. Strangely enough (well rather predictably really) they were Roman siege engines.

Did the Jews build the walls and the Muslims used the siege engines to fight them? when was that ?

 

[Tumah]

Did i say the war started?
But the fact is that the Jews built the walls.

Lots of places have walls separating two countries. That in itself is not a fulfillment of your prophecy. It only means that Muhammad knew that our prophecy to return to Israel would be fulfilled and he speculated that their might be some form of division when the power shifted in favor of the Jews at that time.
You need to wait until the army is standing on one side of it, shooting into the other. So far, whenever Israel had to stop Palestinians from shooting missiles from their side of the wall, they crossed the wall to the other side to fight. Which is specifically not what your prophecy says (assuming you translated "war" loosely enough as to include those skirmishes).

 

[FearGod]

Lots of places have walls separating two countries. That in itself is not a fulfillment of your prophecy. It only means that Muhammad knew that our prophecy to return to Israel would be fulfilled and he speculated that their might be some form of division when the power shifted in favor of the Jews at that time.
You need to wait until the army is standing on one side of it, shooting into the other. So far, whenever Israel had to stop Palestinians from shooting missiles from their side of the wall, they crossed the wall to the other side to fight. Which is specifically not what your prophecy says (assuming you translated "war" loosely enough as to include those skirmishes).

How the prophets knew that the Jews will be gathered and fight Muslims ? and how he knew that
the Jews will be victorious and will take over Jerusalem?
Was it just speculations or a prophecy?

 

[Tumah]

How the prophets knew that the Jews will be gathered and fight Muslims ? and how he knew that
the Jews will be victorious and will take over Jerusalem?
Was it just speculations or a prophecy?

Because he learned our prophecies from the Jewish communities he visited (as was discussed in another thread).

 

[FearGod]

Because he learned our prophecies from the Jewish communities he visited (as was discussed in another thread).

But our prophet said that the Jews were wrong by denying Jesus peace be upon him,
the Jews think that Jesus was the son of a whore, so not surprising as not to believe Mohammed as well.

 

[Tumah]

But our prophet said that the Jews were wrong by denying Jesus peace be upon him,
the Jews think that Jesus was the son of a whore, so not surprising as not to believe Mohammed as well.

Yea, Muhammad learned from Christians as well. What's that got to do with anything?

 

[FearGod]

Yea, Muhammad learned from Christians as well. What's that got to do with anything?

Prophet Muhammed didn't learn from the Jews simply because they weren't following the right path,
Jesus came with the same message before prophet Muhammed and the Jews fought him.

 

[Tumah]

Prophet Muhammed didn't learn from the Jews simply because they weren't following the right path,
Jesus came with the same message before prophet Muhammed and the Jews fought him.

Your friend paarsurrey has a thread about it somewhere on RF. You can look into it if you want.
One of the often quoted surahs is 5:32 which is directly lifted from the Mishnah (Sanhedrin 4:5) and not found in the Bible.

 

[FearGod]

Your friend paarsurrey has a thread about it somewhere on RF. You can look into it if you want.
One of the often quoted surahs is 5:32 which is directly lifted from the Mishnah (Sanhedrin 4:5) and not found in the Bible.

I don't need to, the fact that i know is that prophet Muhammed disagree with the Jews and
he tried to lead them to the right path, some followed and believed him and some others
fought him.

 

[Tumah]

I don't need to, the fact that i know is that prophet Muhammed disagree with the Jews and
he tried to lead them to the right path, some followed and believed him and some others
fought him.

What does that have to do with anything? Just because he disagreed with the Jews when they didn't want to follow his religion, doesn't mean that he didn't learn anything from them when they were still on good terms.

 

[use_your_brain]

The birth of Israel and the 2nd coming of Jesus is the sign for the end times.

"And we decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture, that indeed you would do mischief on the earth twice and you will become tyrants and extremely arrogant! So, when the promise came for the first of the two, We sent against you slaves of Ours given to terrible warfare. They entered the very innermost parts of your homes. And it was a promise (completely) fulfilled. Then We gave you once again, a return of victory over them. And We helped you with wealth and children and made you more numerous in manpower. (And We said): 'If you do well, you do good for your ownselves, and if you do evil (you do it) against yourselves'. Then, when the second promise came to pass, (We permitted your enemies) to make your faces sorrowful and to enter the mosque (of Jerusalem) as they had entered it before, and to destroy with utter destruction all that fell in their hands. [And We Said in the Taurat (Torah)]: 'It may be that your Lord may show mercy unto you, but if you return (to sins), We shall return (to Our Punishment). And We have made Hell a prison for the disbelievers" [Qur'an 17:4-8].

which part that refers to the "end times"?
Israel was built as a state in 1948, do you see the time is end?

 

[FearGod]

What does that have to do with anything? Just because he disagreed with the Jews when they didn't want to follow his religion, doesn't mean that he didn't learn anything from them when they were still on good terms.

Do you believe that Jesus peace be upon him was the son of a whore as most Jews do?
Did prophet Muhammed learn this filthy words about virgin Mary and her son?

You and the other Jews believe that your religion is the only right religion whereas
Christians and Muslims are in the wrong path.

Oh, what that have to do with anything, Muhammed learned from the Jews and fought them.

 

[FearGod]

which part that refers to the "end times"?
Israel was built as a state in 1948, do you see the time is end?

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=104#(17:104:1)

 

[Tumah]

Do you believe that Jesus peace be upon him was the son of a whore as most Jews do?

I thought she was just a hair dresser.

Did prophet Muhammed learn this filthy words about virgin Mary and her son?

I'm sure he learned it, but chose to disregard it, so that he could include the Christians as well.

You and the other Jews believe that your religion is the only right religion whereas
Christians and Muslims are in the wrong path.

What does that have to do with anything?

Oh, what that have to do with anything, Muhammed learned from the Jews and fought them.

Right. but in the beginning he wasn't a propeht, he was a regular person with a job and he interacted with many Jews and Christians. Then, later when he began to call himself a prophet, is when he decided on what to canonize and what not.