The blind faith of the evolutionists

[LuisDantas]

Smoking isn't a right choice,all evidences and signs prove that cigarette is harmful for health,but many reject those evidences and signs.

Agreed. But it was you who thought of comparing it do the choice (if it is even a choice) between theism and atheism.

But about your question about wondering,yes i am wondering but i don't know why people sometime reject one thing in order to do something else even though it may cause harm to themselves.

That is not really the case with atheism, though.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes,except the last sign of sunrise from the west,it'll be convincing enough.

I suppose. It would be puzzling, too. Why would God be interested in such drama?

 

[Parsimony]

I would like to know how these scientists propose that the Earth's rotation is going to stop. There is a massive amount of rotational kinetic energy present that would somehow have to be negated. Barring supernatural intervention, there are not many things that I can think of that could cause this. One would be the impact of a giant asteroid or planetoid which strikes the Earth at just the right angle. Such an impact would no doubt kill all humans on Earth. Another might be a small black hole that moved close to the Earth in a direction opposite its rotation. This too would likely have lethal consequences.

 

[Iti oj]

To be fair most smokers know and feel that smoking is bad. So I don't think its a good comparison. Also smoking being bad is empirically bad.

 

[Ouroboros]

Or maybe it is a clear indication that God does not mind if many people won't believe in his existence.

And after all, why would he? He is supposed to be God, after all. Not an elected politician or anything.

Yup.

A God that demands obedience and to be believed in contrary to scientific evidence of his existence is not a good God. A good God would understand the difficulties of belief.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yes,except the last sign of sunrise from the west,it'll be convincing enough.

A day later and a dollar short.

God could do so much more than that. He could for instance do that sign right now instead to impress us, and then continue with one miracle every day. Every single miracle made contrary to physics, chemistry, science, etc...

Why doesn't he?

 

[viole]

It sees the world through that mental filter the same way a person of faith sees the world through the filter of their faith.

With the exception that we seem to be surrounded by natural /material things whereas the competition just believes in the existence of the rest. Ergo, the situation is not completely symmetrical.

I claim knowledge that there are no supernatural entities whatsoever. I also know that the speed of light in vacuum is constant and apples fall to the ground. Am I dead sure that there are no gods or spirits? Nope, but I am not dead sure that the speed of light is always constant or that some apples escape the earth gravitation when ripe, either. So, i do not see any reason to change my epistemology for one case and not the other.

So, either I know both. Or I do not know either of them. In the latter case, I, and everybody else, know nothing and knowledge becomes an empty word.

There is no such thing as "evolutionists". I accept evolution, and apparently you do too! So are you and I "evolutionists"? No, what you are arguing against is philosophical materialism. Be specific, and go after what you really see as the problem, not mistakenly and falsely demonizing evolution or science. Right?

The theory of evolution by natural selection does not preclude the existence of god even thought it makes him superfluous. But it precludes the existence of the Christian god, amongst others.

In that, I think literal Christianity has a point. It is challenging to marry a benevolent and almighty god with us in mind with the idea of evolution. A cold, unemotional and amoral process also driven by mass extinctions of planetary scale.

Do we really believe that accessories to evolution like earthquakes, viruses, weather changes, meteorites, continental drifts, etc. have been manipulated by a benevolent god? Just for us?

Not very efficient, I am afraid, and morally questionable.

The Adam and Eve scenario is much more plausible, if you are Christian.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

As i said there are many signs other than the quran

As a non believer Allah tries to convince non believers with the following verse:

Do you not see how God has created the seven heavens
one above the other,
and made the moon a light in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp?

I was starring at the sky all night trying to see how the seven heavens have been created one above another, but was unable to do so.
I could see the moon appearing as a light and the sun a lamp, but couldnt see how the seven heavens were layered one above another.
Can you as a muslim please explain to me how you can do so. :help:

By the way ancient people understood this sign very well, so I'm sure you can explain it to me.

 

[FearGod]

As a non believer Allah tries to convince non believers with the following verse:

Do you not see how God has created the seven heavens
one above the other,
and made the moon a light in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp?

I was starring at the sky all night trying to see how the seven heavens have been created one above another, but was unable to do so.
I could see the moon appearing as a light and the sun a lamp, but couldnt see how the seven heavens were layered one above another.
Can you as a muslim please explain to me how you can do so. :help:

By the way ancient people understood this sign very well, so I'm sure you can explain it to me.

ٍDo you think those verses were to convince the ancient people about the 7 heavens ?

What are those 7 heavens ?

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

ٍDo you think those verses were to convince the ancient people about the 7 heavens ?

What are those 7 heavens ?

This question was directed to unbelievers at that time 'don't you see how Allah created the seven heavens one above another?'.

Again verse 67.3:
SHAKIR: Who created the seven heavens one above another

So obviously they were of what they were if the Koran asks them see how they have been created and asks who created them.


This question was asked to them as it would convince them of Allahs existence. But I have looked up at the sky and cannot see how Allah has created these seven heavens one above another.
So as an expert in the Koran and google translator, I was wondering if you could help me out.
Please :help:

 

[FearGod]

This question was directed to unbelievers at that time 'don't you see how Allah created the seven heavens one above another?'.

Again verse 67.3:
SHAKIR: Who created the seven heavens one above another

So obviously they were of what they were if the Koran asks them see how they have been created and asks who created them.


This question was asked to them as it would convince them of Allahs existence. But I have looked up at the sky and cannot see how Allah has created these seven heavens one above another.
So as an expert in the Koran and google translator, I was wondering if you could help me out.
Please :help:

And how you know that God meant the people of ancient times,of course they had looked at the sky as you did and they had seen it as one heaven but the fact is that they indeed not one heaven,but yes for ancient people it is untestable,not as our days.

Did i help ?

 

[Iti oj]

And how you know that God meant the people of ancient times,of course they had looked at the sky as you did and they had seen it as one heaven but the fact is that they indeed not one heaven,but yes for ancient people it is untestable,not as our days.

Did i help ?

So the Koran isn't book for all people for all ages?

 

[FearGod]

So the Koran isn't book for all people for all ages?

Some verses were telling about ancient stories such as gog and magog,others were for the time of the prophet and some verses were future telling such as the battle between Muslims and the Romans which occurred after the death of the prophet and one other story which pointing to the end of times is that God will give the power to Jews and they will be gathered in Palestine coming from all over the world,so yes it is for all ages but the people before 1000 years didn't know that the quran is right about the Jews being more powerful than Muslims who defeated the Romans and reached Spain,but of course they did have signs for their own times.

 

[gnostic]

I like how feargod twisted the definition for "blind faith".

It is not "blind faith", if a field in biology, like evolution, when scientists used observations, testings and more importantly - EVIDENCES, to come to conclusion, of any given theory.

Why do people ignore "evidence" when they misuse "blind faith"? Why do people, like feargod, ignore evidence when they talk of or about science, or scientific theory.

Believing in any deity, is "blind faith", after all, theistic religions are all about faith. Believing in miracles is also about faith or "blind faith".

FearGod, when Muslims believed in the archangel Gabriel having visit Muhammad in the cave, without seeing themselves, is what I called "blind faith" in taking Muhammad's words for it.

And believing Muhammad visiting Jerusalem on a winged horse - Isra - and then Muhammad visiting the heavens and seeing Allah - Mi'raj - all in a single night, is takings on Muhammad's words on "blind faith".

Neither of these two claims, made by Muhammad, can be investigated, tested or seen as evidences. You are only believing his words that these two events took place, because of the prophet's say-so, hence you are relying on (blind) faith, not on any hard, physical evidence.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

And how you know that God meant the people of ancient times,of course they had looked at the sky as you did and they had seen it as one heaven but the fact is that they indeed not one heaven,but yes for ancient people it is untestable,not as our days.

Did i help ?

No you didn't Mr expert!!
This is a nonsensical answer. When these verses were revealed to early muslims this would have caused complete confusion if they never actually understood what the seven heavens were and if they were not visible. This would have the opposite affect of a sign.

In fact what makes your answer even more nonsensical is that the following verses were spoken by Noah trying to convince the disbelievers of Allahs existence:

071.015/16
YUSUFALI: "'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, "'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?

So obviously this was a sign to ancient people who believed they could see seven heavens and how they were created one above another.
For an expert in the Koran and the google translator it's a very disappointing answer.

What are these seven heavens we can see in layers by looking up at the sky?

 

[FearGod]

No you didn't Mr expert!!
This is a nonsensical answer. When these verses were revealed to early muslims this would have caused complete confusion if they never actually understood what the seven heavens were and if they were not visible. This would have the opposite affect of a sign.

In fact what makes your answer even more nonsensical is that the following verses were spoken by Noah trying to convince the disbelievers of Allahs existence:

071.015/16
YUSUFALI: "'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, "'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?

So obviously this was a sign to ancient people who believed they could see seven heavens and how they were created one above another.
For an expert in the Koran and the google translator it's a very disappointing answer.

What are these seven heavens we can see in layers by looking up at the sky?

And how the story of prophet Noah had to convince the people of Mohammed,as the verses was informed by prophet Mohammed and was revealed to prophet Noah.

Noah as other prophets received the revelation from God and he just pass the message to people.

And how the prophecy which mentioned in the quran that Muslims will defeat the Romans have to be of any benefit to convince the disbelievers if even prophet Mohammed didn't witness it as it happened later after his death.

And how the story mentioned in the quran that children of Israel will be powerful near the end of times have to be of any benefit as to convince the people at the time of prophet Mohammed.

 

[Truthisnotyourenemy]

And how the story of prophet Noah had to convince the people of Mohammed,as the verses was informed by prophet Mohammed and was revealed to prophet Noah.

Noah as other prophets received the revelation from God and he just pass the message to people.

And how the prophecy which mentioned in the quran that Muslims will defeat the Romans have to be of any benefit to convince the disbelievers if even prophet Mohammed didn't witness it as it happened later after his death.

And how the story mentioned in the quran that children of Israel will be powerful near the end of times have to be of any benefit as to convince the people at the time of prophet Mohammed.

This is a nonsensical answer for two reasons.
Firstly if primitive people could see how the seven heavens had been made one above another, then the same would obviously apply to everyone else, unless they receieved special goggles to go with their holy book.
The same signs Noah spoke to the disbelievers about are all over the Koran, and the Koran is warning it's revealed audience not to ignore the same signs they did.
Secondly the Koran asks it's revealed audience who created the seven heavens on more than one occasion as it is a sign of Allahs existence.
So clearly, it was understood by them as otherwise it would have the opposite effect.

We can see this in verse 67.03 as it says the same as verse 71.05:

067.003
SHAKIR: Who created the seven heavens one above another; you see no incongruity in the creation of the Beneficent Allah; then look again, can you see any disorder?

So clearly it's asking it's revealed audience who created the seven heavens one above another. Which obviously means they can see them and they are flawless, which can be verified by looking at them.

Your answers are really desperate and only serve to highlight how hopeless your position is. :sorry1:

 

[FearGod]

This is a nonsensical answer for two reasons.
Firstly if primitive people could see how the seven heavens had been made one above another, then the same would obviously apply to everyone else, unless they receieved special goggles to go with their holy book.
The same signs Noah spoke to the disbelievers about are all over the Koran, and the Koran is warning it's revealed audience not to ignore the same signs they did.
Secondly the Koran asks it's revealed audience who created the seven heavens on more than one occasion as it is a sign of Allahs existence.
So clearly, it was understood by them as otherwise it would have the opposite effect.

We can see this in verse 67.03 as it says the same as verse 71.05:

067.003
SHAKIR: Who created the seven heavens one above another; you see no incongruity in the creation of the Beneficent Allah; then look again, can you see any disorder?

So clearly it's asking it's revealed audience who created the seven heavens one above another. Which obviously means they can see them and they are flawless, which can be verified by looking at them.

Your answers are really desperate and only serve to highlight how hopeless your position is. :sorry1:

No it shows how miraculous and great the verse is.

That shows us with no doubt that it is impossible for ancient people to know by the natural way and by the naked eye that the heaven above us is more than one heaven.

You did a great job to clarify how amazing that verse is regardless of how silly is your questioning of how those people in the ancient time could understand this fact by their naked eyes.

Open your 2 eyes and balance this piece of information very well.

 

[Noaidi]

I say there is no "who", ie, evolution just happens.
It's just a natural system response.

That's the best way to put it: it's a population's response to a changing environment. It really is that simple.

 

[outhouse]

To bad we cant change the thread title to the proven blind faith of the creationist.

They often use imagination as evidence, since to date ZERO evidence supports it.