The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Zindagee Rahmaan]

Must the challenge be written in Ancient Arabic exactly as found in the original Qur’an?
Yes or no, please write a brief explanation as to why.

Who want to refute this challenge at all?

So, challenge is not specifically about Arabic language or Arabic essence. This Challenge is about Quran is reveled from ALLAH Almighty not handy work of Muhammad pbuh, as Stated in these verses:

4: 82. Do they not consider the Qur'án (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.

If you want to get information about the challenge in depth, you first need to know that Quran was revealed unto Muhamamd pbuh who was an uneducated person. Now from there is start of challenge.

So your first concern should not be that:

Must the challenge be written in Arabic or not?

You first most concern should be:

Should the competitor is uneducated like Muhammad pbu so is to work out for this challenge?

And we know that today not a single uneducated person is able to present such a holy verse or chapter which could satisfy these conditions:

1) Quran is preserved without discrepancies and incongruity (while keep in mind that Quran is revealed on an uneducated person.)
2) Gather followers who are still increasing after Muhammad pbuh has left this world. Islam is rapidly growing in west.
3) Quran claims for no prophet after Muhammad pbuh so no book will be revealed after it, so we see this none has been brought as singular verse yet to claim it from Devine.

Therefore ALLAH says:

2: 24 And if ye do it not - and ye can never do it - then guard yourselves against the Fire prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is of men and stones.

 

[England my lionheart]

Who want to refute this challenge at all?

So, challenge is not specifically about Arabic language or Arabic essence. This Challenge is about Quran is reveled from ALLAH Almighty not handy work of Muhammad pbuh, as Stated in these verses:

4: 82. Do they not consider the Qur'án (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.

If you want to get information about the challenge in depth, you first need to know that Quran was revealed unto Muhamamd pbuh who was an uneducated person. Now from there is start of challenge.

So because we are educated we cannot take up the challenge:thud:

So your first concern should not be that:

Must the challenge be written in Arabic or not?

You first most concern should be:

Should the competitor is uneducated like Muhammad pbu so is to work out for this challenge?

Well should he be or not and is it just open to Men only

And we know that today not a single uneducated person is able to present such a holy verse or chapter which could satisfy these conditions:

This just gets sillier,so the challenge can only be open to somebody who is illiterate,so how will he know if it is indeed simmilar.

1) Quran is preserved without discrepancies and incongruity (while keep in mind that Quran is revealed on an uneducated person.)
2) Gather followers who are still increasing after Muhammad pbuh has left this world. Islam is rapidly growing in west.
3) Quran claims for no prophet after Muhammad pbuh so no book will be revealed after it, so we see this none has been brought as singular verse yet to claim it from Devine.

Yes thats all it is a claim.

Therefore ALLAH says:

2: 24 And if ye do it not - and ye can never do it - then guard yourselves against the Fire prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is of men and stones.

Here is yet another version of the criteria.

 

[England my lionheart]

So you have to be illiterate and so won't be able to read the challenge in the first place,it must be revealed from God which you have no way of proving,it must be in Arabic but you cannot write anyway,it just gets worse,does anyone actually know the criteria or is it just made up as you go along.

 

[Sajdah]

So god chose Arabic to convey his revelation to the prophet thereby choosing Arabs to submit and spread the word , the word must be perpetually Arabic , so are we dealing with another chosen people here?

You know the only difference between humans according to Islam is "Taqwa."
Non-muslims claim that the Qur'an is not the word of Allah, so all what you need is challenging the verbatim words of the Qur'an. Not challenging Yusuf Ali's translation of the meaning of verses (It is also impossible to challenge the meaning of verses). If you can not accept challenging one miracle (Language), and it is difficult for you to learn a new language, so I think it will be appreciated to admit your failure, right?!

 

[England my lionheart]

You know the only difference between humans according to Islam is "Taqwa."
Non-muslims claim that the Qur'an is not the word of Allah, so all what you need is challenging the verbatim words of the Qur'an. Not challenging Yusuf Ali's translation of the meaning of verses (It is also impossible to challenge the meaning of verses). If you can not accept challenging one miracle (Language), and it is difficult for you to learn a new language, so I think it will be appreciated to admit your failure, right?!

Wrong

 

[Gharib]

Wrong

um....no one has even come close to taking the challenge, i am sure you were meant to say right.

 

[Breathe]

um....no one has even come close to taking the challenge, i am sure you were meant to say right.

suralikeit.com, though?

One of the non-Qur'anical surahs that have attempted to do the challenge. I'd be interested in knowing a Muslims' response to these (and what they sound like in Arabic? Do they sound.. off? Or good?)?

 

[Gharib]

suralikeit.com, though?

One of the non-Qur'anical surahs that have attempted to do the challenge. I'd be interested in knowing a Muslims' response to these (and what they sound like in Arabic? Do they sound.. off? Or good?)?

i can't read that. it's got no vowels and even if it did i wouldn't be able to understand it, so you see it fails, the quran has been made easy to read, what am i to do with this.

FAILURE is the word ok.

 

[Breathe]

i can't read that. it's got no vowels and even if it did i wouldn't be able to understand it, so you see it fails, the quran has been made easy to read, what am i to do with this.

FAILURE is the word ok.

And when the disciples said to Christ:
O our Lord teach us a prayer that pleases the Lord of the worlds. (1)
(wa idh kalal hawari'yoona lil-maseehi rabbana allimna salatan turdee
rabbal alameen)

He said, so lift your hearts toward heaven
and do not reiterate the words (do not be loquacious) like the hypocrites. (2)
(kala farfa'oo ilal alya'ee kuloobakum wala tukarrirul kalama
kalmunafikeen)

It is He who made of you spiritual children for Him
when He breathed into your chests granting you a spirit of your own
so devote yourselves to him with reverence. (3)
(huwal ladhi sawakumu bir-roohi abna'an lahoo idh nafakha min roohihi fi
sudoorikum roohan lakum faknutoo lahu khashi'een)

And address Him as children {do}. (4)
(wakhatiboohu kabaneen)

Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come; thy will be done, for ever and ever. (5)
(abanal ladhi fissamawati liyatakaddas'ismuka, liya'ti malakootuka,
litakun mashee'atuka, ila abadil abideen)

On earth as it is in heaven, at all times and all places. (6)
(kama fissama'ee kadhalika ala ardi fi kulli makanen wafi kulli heen)

O our Lord, our daily bread give us this day
and forgive us our trespasses, O the most merciful. (7)
(Rabbana khubzana kafafana a'tinal yawma waghfer lana dhunoobana
ya arhamar rahimeen.)

As we forgive all of those who trespass against us. (8)
(kama naghfiru nahnoo likulli man kanoo bihakkina mukhti'een)

Our Lord, and lead us not into temptation;
Against the devil thine aid we truly seek. (9)
(Rabbana wala tudkhilna fi tajrubaten inna alashirriri bika nasta'een)
- From http://www.annaqed.com/suralikeit/dua.eng.htm
For you.


I can see some harakat vowel markers (or are they tashkil?)... don't forget the vowels were added after in Arabic script, as were the dots.

"Early manuscripts of the Qurʾan did not use diacritics either for vowels or to distinguish the different values of the rasm. Vowels pointing was introduced first, as a red dot placed above, below, or beside the rasm, and later consonant pointing was introduced, as thin, short black single or multiple dashes placed above or below the rasm. These iʿjam became black dots about the same time as the harakat became small black letters or strokes." - From Arabic diacritics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can you guess which one it is without markers? Or even read it correctly?
So, if this was the case, then wouldn't the Qur'an also fail? Surely you can't be implying that!!

 

[YmirGF]

um....no one has even come close to taking the challenge, i am sure you were meant to say right.

But Eselam, what is the point of issuing a challenge that cannot be met? It's not a challenge, but rather, an impossibility.

What I mean is, I say to you, "Eselam, I have designed a difficult challenge for you, if you are interested in a challenge, of course." I would then describe exactly what the challenge was and the exact criteria involved in the challenge (so you were 100% clear on what needed to be done). The instructions (the criteria) would have to be clear enough so that you could understand when and if you had either succeeded or failed the challenge. Anything short of this would make my challenge to you less than fair and therefore it would fail as a challenge as it is not reasonable.

The point is, for a challenge to be a real challenge, there must exist the possibility that the challenge can be met. If I rig the challenge so that you cannot possibly meet and succeed, then I have simply fooled you and been very dishonest because I would have given you the impression (understanding) that you could meet the challenge, all the while knowing that you would fail.

Do you see my point?

Then to add injury to insult, if you take my unfair challenge (that you have no possibility of winning or succeeding at) you will automatically suffer a fate worse than death.

Seriously. Do you do what I am saying?

 

[kai]

You know the only difference between humans according to Islam is "Taqwa."
Non-muslims claim that the Qur'an is not the word of Allah, so all what you need is challenging the verbatim words of the Qur'an. Not challenging Yusuf Ali's translation of the meaning of verses (It is also impossible to challenge the meaning of verses). If you can not accept challenging one miracle (Language), and it is difficult for you to learn a new language, so I think it will be appreciated to admit your failure, right?!

no idea what you mean , challenging miracles ? Language is a miracle now? Failure ? failure of what exactly?

 

[kai]

i can't read that. it's got no vowels and even if it did i wouldn't be able to understand it, so you see it fails, the quran has been made easy to read, what am i to do with this.

FAILURE is the word ok.

why cant you read that? can you read an Arabic Quran esalam?

 

[Princess Of Peace]

i can't read that. it's got no vowels and even if it did i wouldn't be able to understand it, so you see it fails, the quran has been made easy to read, what am i to do with this.

FAILURE is the word ok.

Do you speak Arabic?

 

[England my lionheart]

i can't read that. it's got no vowels and even if it did i wouldn't be able to understand it, so you see it fails, the quran has been made easy to read, what am i to do with this.


FAILURE is the word ok.

Baloney is the word as baloney =the challenge

 

[Sajdah]

no idea what you mean , challenging miracles ? Language is a miracle now? Failure ? failure of what exactly?

The failure of imitating the Qur'an is in itself miraculous!

And yes the language of the Qur'an is a miracle.

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]The French scholar, Ernest Renan (1823-1894), who carried out extensive research on Semitic languages, said about Arabic:[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]"The Arabic language is the most astonishing event of human history. Unknown during the classical period, it suddenly emerged as a complete language. After this, it did not undergo any noticeable changes, so one cannot define for it an early or a late stage. It is just the same today as it was when it first appeared”.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]In acknowledging this “astonishing event of human history” the French Orientalist, was in fact, acknowledging the miraculous nature of the Qur’an. It was the Qur’an’s phenomenal literary style which preserved the Arabic language from alteration that other languages have undergone.[/FONT]

 

[YmirGF]

The failure of imitating the Qur'an is in itself miraculous!

So, by this reasoning a successful challenger to the Qur'an would also have to be considered miraculous.

And yes the language of the Qur'an is a miracle.

It is somewhat miraculous that people find the language of the Qur'an to be noteworthy.

 

[Gharib]

why cant you read that? can you read an Arabic Quran esalam?

yes i can

 

[Gharib]

Do you speak Arabic?

no, i can only read, not very good at it but good enough to have disproven that thing what ever it was.

 

[Gharib]

And when the disciples said to Christ:
O our Lord teach us a prayer that pleases the Lord of the worlds. (1)
(wa idh kalal hawari'yoona lil-maseehi rabbana allimna salatan turdee
rabbal alameen)

He said, so lift your hearts toward heaven
and do not reiterate the words (do not be loquacious) like the hypocrites. (2)
(kala farfa'oo ilal alya'ee kuloobakum wala tukarrirul kalama
kalmunafikeen)

It is He who made of you spiritual children for Him
when He breathed into your chests granting you a spirit of your own
so devote yourselves to him with reverence. (3)
(huwal ladhi sawakumu bir-roohi abna'an lahoo idh nafakha min roohihi fi
sudoorikum roohan lakum faknutoo lahu khashi'een)

And address Him as children {do}. (4)
(wakhatiboohu kabaneen)

Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come; thy will be done, for ever and ever. (5)
(abanal ladhi fissamawati liyatakaddas'ismuka, liya'ti malakootuka,
litakun mashee'atuka, ila abadil abideen)

On earth as it is in heaven, at all times and all places. (6)
(kama fissama'ee kadhalika ala ardi fi kulli makanen wafi kulli heen)

O our Lord, our daily bread give us this day
and forgive us our trespasses, O the most merciful. (7)
(Rabbana khubzana kafafana a'tinal yawma waghfer lana dhunoobana
ya arhamar rahimeen.)

As we forgive all of those who trespass against us. (8)
(kama naghfiru nahnoo likulli man kanoo bihakkina mukhti'een)

Our Lord, and lead us not into temptation;
Against the devil thine aid we truly seek. (9)
(Rabbana wala tudkhilna fi tajrubaten inna alashirriri bika nasta'een)
- From Surat Ad-Du'a ("The Prayer")
For you.


I can see some harakat vowel markers (or are they tashkil?)... don't forget the vowels were added after in Arabic script, as were the dots.

"Early manuscripts of the Qurʾan did not use diacritics either for vowels or to distinguish the different values of the rasm. Vowels pointing was introduced first, as a red dot placed above, below, or beside the rasm, and later consonant pointing was introduced, as thin, short black single or multiple dashes placed above or below the rasm. These iʿjam became black dots about the same time as the harakat became small black letters or strokes." - From Arabic diacritics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can you guess which one it is without markers? Or even read it correctly?
So, if this was the case, then wouldn't the Qur'an also fail? Surely you can't be implying that!!

odion, i am not talking about some 14 hundred years ago, it was only the arabs that knew of the quran at that time and once islam started spreadig then they made it easy for people to understand it, or read it i should say. i'm talking about the present not 1400 years ago, and if the person who has written that thing (what you showed me before) lived during the time of the prophet then i would not bee saying this, but it is written in the 21'st century.

so again, FAILURE is the word, ok.

 

[Gharib]

But Eselam, what is the point of issuing a challenge that cannot be met? It's not a challenge, but rather, an impossibility.

What I mean is, I say to you, "Eselam, I have designed a difficult challenge for you, if you are interested in a challenge, of course." I would then describe exactly what the challenge was and the exact criteria involved in the challenge (so you were 100% clear on what needed to be done). The instructions (the criteria) would have to be clear enough so that you could understand when and if you had either succeeded or failed the challenge. Anything short of this would make my challenge to you less than fair and therefore it would fail as a challenge as it is not reasonable.

The point is, for a challenge to be a real challenge, there must exist the possibility that the challenge can be met. If I rig the challenge so that you cannot possibly meet and succeed, then I have simply fooled you and been very dishonest because I would have given you the impression (understanding) that you could meet the challenge, all the while knowing that you would fail.

Do you see my point?

Then to add injury to insult, if you take my unfair challenge (that you have no possibility of winning or succeeding at) you will automatically suffer a fate worse than death.

Seriously. Do you do what I am saying?

i understand what you are sying, but, there is a BUT here ok.

the challenge of the quran is not rigged, the only problem for you is that, you cannot compete with god, your creator, my creator, the creator of everything. you having more knowledge than me of your own challenge does not mean it is rigged, it means you are it's master, so no one can dissprove it, due to you having created it and is very powerful.

now do you get what i mean?

the challenge of the quran is not rigged, it is very simple, create a chapter, how hard could it be right? oh wait it is, i forgot. too bad i guess, but i would be encouraging none of you to take it though, Allah (swt) has said he would punish that person with etternal hell if he failed, and i am now wondering how is it possible for a man to beat a god?