The Challenge in the Qur'an

[England my lionheart]

Response: Exactly. You have no proof. Thanks for the clarification. However, we do have proof of England saying that the challenge is in fact impossible for him to do, thus confirming his denial to the authenticity of the qur'an.

That i'm afraid is about the limit of your posts as you suffer from being unable to be objective,but please continue to post as maybe a miracle will occur and your responses will gain a larger repetoir

 

[Fatihah]

In fact its interesting to note that poetry was held in such esteem that pre Islam it was hung in the Kabba where people would gather to hear and read it so thats why poetry/prose was such a good medium for Islam.

Response: It is also an interesting fact that when Muhammad(pbuh) first began to preach the qur'an and gain followers, the arab tribes accused Muhammad(pbuh) of just that, a man who spoke good poetry and what he was saying was not revelation from Allah(swt). So Allah reveals to Muhammad(pbuh) to say: "And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our Servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers, beside Allah, if you are truthful".

So the leaders of the Arab tribes did just that. When Muhammad(pbuh) spoke, they would try to drown it out with their own poetry and their own revelations. The outcome, no one listened. All of Arabia listened and followed the true message of Allah and accepted Muhammad(pbuh) as the prophet and witnessed his many miracles, including the miracle of the qur'an.

 

[maro]

It definately is a challenge but only in conext of the time of Muhammed as it was addressed to the unbelievers/doubters of the time and this is where it makes sense..

The challenge is for anyone who can speak , write and taste Arabic....at any time..not only that of the prophet (PBUH)...
it's true we aren't as eloquent as the mecccans were..but we still can taste our mother language..

 

[Fatihah]

That i'm afraid is about the limit of your posts as you suffer from being unable to be objective,but please continue to post as maybe a miracle will occur and your responses will gain a larger repetoir

Response: No need. When a denial like yours is so clear and so evident, a two-syllable response to your post is sufficient enough.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: It is also an interesting fact that when Muhammad(pbuh) first began to preach the qur'an and gain followers, the arab tribes accused Muhammad(pbuh) of just that, a man who spoke good poetry and what he was saying was not revelation from Allah(swt). So Allah reveals to Muhammad(pbuh) to say: "And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our Servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers, beside Allah, if you are truthful".

So the leaders of the Arab tribes did just that. When Muhammad(pbuh) spoke, they would try to drown it out with their own poetry and their own revelations. The outcome, no one listened. All of Arabia listened and followed the true message of Allah and accepted Muhammad(pbuh) as the prophet and witnessed his many miracles, including the miracle of the qur'an.

Bingo,so that substantiates my post,thanks,it shows that it was a challenge in the context of Muhammeds time,at last Fatihah we make some progress.

 

[Fatihah]

Bingo,so that substantiates my post,thanks,it shows that it was a challenge in the context of Muhammeds time,at last Fatihah we make some progress.

Response: Yes, it was a challenge made during Muhammad's time and today we're making that same challenge for your time. And just like the time of Muhammad (pbuh), we have those who simply wish to live in denial to the truth of the qur'an's authenticity just like yourself.

 

[McBell]

Please show where Allah states that the challenge must be answered in Arabic.
Or perhaps it was not Allah who made the original challenge.....

 

[Breathe]

because the quran is arabic...and the challenge is to bring anything like the quran....so what do the torah and injil have to do with it ?!!!!

Because they are all supposed to be (originally) words of God - I don't know where it says that the challenge must be met in Arabic though, Allah says only in the Qur'an, "even if the humans and the jinn help each other", that's about the closest we get to any criteria.

Produce a surah "like it".
You can't, even if people help.

So from that, we have:

• From God? (How do you know?)
• Dictated by a prophet (How do you know?)
• From an angel as intercessor between God and man (why? How do you know?)
• It must be eloquent
• Arabic? Hebrew? Aramaic? Semitic languages. Koine Greek, not..? Therefore, Arabic cannot have the whole grasp on the challenge?
• Poetry (why?)
• More than one author permissible
• For all the world: therefore, not just Arabs, Meccans, or those at the time, so it can also not be in Arabic?

Otherwise, I dunno.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Yes, it was a challenge made during Muhammad's time and today we're making that same challenge for your time. And just like the time of Muhammad (pbuh), we have those who simply wish to live in denial to the truth of the qur'an's authenticity just like yourself.

LOL i see a statement ,wheres the proof

 

[Breathe]

Response: I find it amusing at how people come up with more reasons to be in denial of the authenticity of the qur'an. You have a challenge laid out in front of you, you ask for proof, and yet you consistantly ignore the challenge.

I'm not taking the challenge, because quite simply: I don't need to challenge it. It's not important to me. Finding out the actual challenge is more interesting.

As I sit back and watch the consistant strategy of making the challenge seem irrational, it seems the new concept of the non-muslim is to say, "well who's going to be the judge?" This, supposedly, is the lagit reason to not accept the challenge.

Who is going to?
You're not going to judge it fairly.

So my question is, "why the hypocrisy?"

Likewise.

You see, you made a decision that the qur'an challenge needs a judge.

Then how do you know if the surah wins? Suralikeit.com claims to be as good.

I'm asking the question, who was the judge in that decision? Who was the judge in the decision that the qur'an was "not" from Allah? Who was the judge that Muhammad was not a prophet?

Who can say otherwise?
Is there proof Muhammad was a prophet? Proof there even is a God?

Sure, we may believe in them, but do we have proof?

Who was the judge that says he spread the religion by force?

I never said that?

Yet, when it comes to answering the challenge, you now ask for and need a judge?

No, we said, "who can judge it fairly"? Muslims will say "this isn't equal to the Qur'an", because to say the Qur'an is equalled by something man has produced will produce a painful doom.

A non-Muslim judge, and the Muslims will say, "The non-Muslims deliberately believe it is equal to the Qur'an".

a non-Arab speaker, and the Muslims will say "They don't speak Arabic, they cannot judge".

So, who actually can judge?

The hypocrisy is astounding.

Likewise.

 

[kai]

These different religion are dividing people divinly, do you know? Islam is in favor of unity through one God. So!
Yes that is the Islamic position ,amongst others.

Let me complete my satement,

There is a concept of Jannah (Paradise) almost in all scriptures; I would like to give you linguistic and descriptive beauty of Quran. How much deeply you can imagine Jannah/Paradise, let say, spouse thorn beauty rivers gardens ect ect. Quran defines Jannah in just a single statement. It gives the description of Paradise in a single statement, Here!

لَّهُمْ فِيهَا مَا يَشَآءُونَ خَالِدِينَ كَانَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّكَ وَعْداً مَّسْئُولاً

25:16. "For them there will be therein all that they wish for: they will dwell (there) for aye: a promise to be prayed for from thy Lord."

States whatsoever is wished will be fulfilled for ever. Just keep this point behind that Paradise exists or not because we are here to debate for Quran challenge to produce a single verse there unto.

Now bring any single statement like Quran defines Paradise from any scripture that you listed above.
Do not bring broken pieces of verses from colorful scriptures. Just bring the greater statement as compared to Quran about Paradise.
And while keep in mind that Quran is revealed unto Muhammad pbuh who was illiterate prophet, can you defeat this mere challenge?

I am afraid the link is broken and i must say that the notion that the legitimacy of a religion depends on its description of paradise a little odd.


The Islamic texts describes life for its immortal inhabitants as: one that is happy — without hurt, sorrow, fear or shame — where every wish is fulfilled. Traditions relate that inhabitants will be of the same age (33 years), and of the same standing/equal. Their life is one of bliss including: wearing costly robes, bracelets, perfumes as they partake in exquisite banquets, served in priceless vessels by immortal youths, as they recline on couches inlaid with gold or precious stones. Other foods mentioned include meats, scented wine and clear drinks bringing neither drunkenness nor rousing quarrelling. Inhabitants will rejoice in the company of their parents, spouses, and children (provided they were admitted to paradise) — conversing and recalling the past. The dwellings for inhabitants will be pleasant, with lofty gardens, shady valleys, fountains scented with camphor or ginger; rivers of water, milk, honey and wines; delicious fruits of all seasons without thorns; . One day in paradise is considered equal to a thousand days on earth. Palaces are made from bricks of gold, silver, pearls, among other things. Traditions also note the presence of horses and camels of "dazzling whiteness", along with other creatures. Large trees are described, mountains made of musk, between which rivers flow in valleys of pearl and ruby.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jannah


Is this description acurate at all, I would forgo the robes and the youths, i see you can drink wine there and not get drunk,I am not one for Horses and definately not Camels, I wonder does anybody else think this paradise would suit a 7th cen tury Arab.?

 

[kai]

The challenge is for anyone who can speak , write and taste Arabic....at any time..not only that of the prophet (PBUH)...
it's true we aren't as eloquent as the mecccans were..but we still can taste our mother language..

Maro i would also be interested in where you got this criteria?

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Yes, it was a challenge made during Muhammad's time and today we're making that same challenge for your time. And just like the time of Muhammad (pbuh), we have those who simply wish to live in denial to the truth of the qur'an's authenticity just like yourself.

So you agree " Yes, it was a challenge made during Muhammad's time" but now the challenge is comming from us,does that mean that you are a spokesman for all Muslims .
"and today we're making that same challenge for your time. And just like the time of Muhammad (pbuh)" so can i ask on what authority you are issuing the challenge.

 

[England my lionheart]

The challenge is for anyone who can speak , write and taste Arabic....at any time..not only that of the prophet (PBUH)...
it's true we aren't as eloquent as the mecccans were..but we still can taste our mother language..

So then the challenge isn't universal.

 

[Breathe]

40 pages and the answer is still, effectively a wordy version of ""

 

[kai]

"And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient. Reclining on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold, (as in Paradise there is no sun and no moon). The shade will be close upon them, and bunches of fruit will hang low within their reach. Vessels of silver and cups of crystal will be passed around amongst them, crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure of them according to their wishes. They will be given a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabeel, and a fountain called Salsabeel. Around them will (serve) boys of perpetual youth. If you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls. When you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a Great Dominion. Their garments will be of fine green silk and gold embroidery. They will be adorned with bracelets of silver,
Paradise Heaven and Jannah In Islam

Again with the Youths whats that all about?


Abu Musa al-Ash'ari narrated that the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said, "Verily, for the believers in Paradise, are tents made of a single hollow pear. The length of which would be sixty miles long from all sides, their wives being therein. The believer will go around them (i.e., visit them) and they will not be able to see each other." [Sahih al-Jami]




Tents?



"There is not a tree in Paradise, except that its trunk is made of gold." [Sahih al-Jami]

I think your right Zindagee i don't think anybody else's Paradise has 6mile wide tents made from a single spear ,camels, and youths that perpetually stay young. and trees made of gold, personaly i like trees as they are.

 

[Fatihah]

LOL i see a statement ,wheres the proof

Response: Sure. In post 610 of page 61 of the "Muhammad the Greatest: A comparative study" thread, you say the following:

"I can see it working 1400 years ago when people had less education and savvy so you are right i would fail to make up a religion and go invading other countries but back then i think with the promise of booty it would have been easily attainable."

Above, we can see from your own words that you admit that you can't answer the challenge and testify to the fact that you could not make a religion and go and invade other countries. It is similarly repeated in the same thread 2 post later and in post 197 of page 20 of this very thread says basically the same thing.Denial confirmed.

 

[kai]

what a fascinating subject: well jews and Christians are oK


"And they say: 'None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.' Those are their (vain) desires. Say, 'Produce your proof if you are truthful.' [2

"Verily, the Muttaqoon will be in a place of security, among Gardens and Springs, dressed in fine silk and (also) in thick silk, facing each other. This is how it shall be, and We shall marry them to Houris with wide, lovely eyes. They will request therein for every kind of fruit in peace and security." [44:51-55]

Houris and Fruit not a bad combination.

Paradise Heaven and Jannah In Islam

 

[kai]

Response: Sure. In post 610 of page 61 of the "Muhammad the Greatest: A comparative study" thread, you say the following:

"I can see it working 1400 years ago when people had less education and savvy so you are right i would fail to make up a religion and go invading other countries but back then i think with the promise of booty it would have been easily attainable."

Above, we can see from your own words that you admit that you can't answer the challenge and testify to the fact that you could not make a religion and go and invade other countries. It is similarly repeated in the same thread 2 post later and in post 197 of page 20 of this very thread says basically the same thing.Denial confirmed.

why do you keep on about invading other countries ? you sound like George Bush

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Odion]I'm not taking the challenge, because quite simply: I don't need to challenge it. It's not important to me. Finding out the actual challenge is more interesting.(End quote)

Response: Words of those in denial. Why else would someone not want to know the truth?


(Quote Odion)
Who can say otherwise?
Is there proof Muhammad was a prophet? Proof there even is a God?(End quote)

Response: Amazing. When asked for who's the judge that the qur'an is not from Allah, you completely dodge the question. The hypocrisy and your denial is so obvious. Why wouldn't you answer the questions? It's very simple. Who was the judge for the non-muslims that the qur'an is not from Allah? And if you accept that the qur'an is not from Allah, who was the judge? And what judge decided that there needs to be a judge for the challenge?