The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Fatihah]

Oh come on Fatihah,this has nothing to do with moral authority,you cannot inform people of whats right unless your information is proven to be right (i feel a prophesy comming on) and where does it say this in the Quran.
Instead of attacking what you see as an attack on your faith try looking at this from a non believers point of view.

Response: Agreed. You can't prove something is right unless your information is right. The challenge of the qur'an proves my info to be right and post 397 of page 40 confirms your denial to that truth.

 

[England my lionheart]

Fatihah is the challenge according to you the truth or is that why you have dodged a straightforward question asked by Mestemina? that is if you are truthful and it is worth noting that you don't seem to have anyone who agrees with you i wonder why that is.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE YmirGF]

There is no such moral authority to do so. If you think there is then that is in your imagination only.(End Quote)

Response: Likewise.

(Quote YmirGF)
So-called "truth" is relative, Fatihah. Why do you feel a compulsion to issue an impossible challenge? Do you think that doing so makes Muslims look wise?[/QUOTE]

Response: Because it's a moral responsibility to guide a person to the truth and what's best for them. And yes, it makes muslims look very wise. Only in the eyes of those who choose to disbelieve will say otherwise.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Agreed. You can't prove something is right unless your information is right. The challenge of the qur'an proves my info to be right and post 397 of page 40 confirms your denial to that truth.

I prophesised you saying that or are you just predictable,again this is the best you can do.

 

[YmirGF]

Fatihah is the challenge according to you the truth or is that why you have dodged a straightforward question asked by Mestemina? that is if you are truthful and it is worth noting that you don't seem to have anyone who agrees with you i wonder why that is.

Bear in mind that it was Fatihah who claimed the Qur'an "challenge" could be answered in any language. Apparently, the consensus says that it must be in Arabic. So it makes you wonder which Muslims actually know anything. It DOES help us understand why the "challenge" has never been successfully met however.

 

[YmirGF]

Because it's a moral responsibility to guide a person to the truth and what's best for them. And yes, it makes muslims look very wise. Only in the eyes of those who choose to disbelieve will say otherwise.

Are you actually saying YOU know what is "best" for me and have a moral obligation to "correct" my thinking? If so, that does tend to reek of self-righteousness.

 

[Fatihah]

Fatihah is the challenge according to you the truth or is that why you have dodged a straightforward question asked by Mestemina? that is if you are truthful and it is worth noting that you don't seem to have anyone who agrees with you i wonder why that is.

Response: Mestemia's question was not to me. Secondly, many agree with me, including yourself. That's why you haven't answered the challenge. You just insist on living in denial. Hopefully, this denial will come to pass, insha'Allah.

 

[Breathe]

Response: Then there's no need to go any further if you're not even interested in the truth. Thanks for the clarification.

Actually, I said I'm interested in the criteria.

That being said, I would like to encourage all of my brothers and sisters here to discontinue any conversation or explanation about islam to Odion, because he has clearly admitted that he is not interested in the truth. You are wasting your talking to someone who is not interested and it serves no purpose.

You're a vindictive little munafiq aren't you? Not only that, but you're also a liar. Nowhere have I claimed I don't want truth.
Considering I was the one who opened up an "Islam: Ask your Questions" section

(Quote Odion)
I did, you just didn't read it obviously. You have a habit of doing that.(End Quote)

Response: Wow. A blatant lie.

Look who's talking.

You do realize that we all can go to post 390 and verify that you haven't answered the questions as to who is the judge that the qur'an is not from Allah and who is the judge that the challenge needs a judge?

Answer the question: who is going to judge it objectively?
Obviously you can't, so you're becoming hostile. Typical of someone who has no inward faith or inner spiritual strength.

It's in black and white.

Nothing is black and white, everything is a shade of grey.

Yet you would make a blatant lie anyway and say
that you did?

*pats* I suggest you read sentences fully.

Now, I once caught a person in a lie before and when I went to quote the post, it was edited out. So before that happens again, let me below display the post of Odion, his response to my post of 375, and we can clearly see that he doesn't answer the questions.

Wow, you really are a waste of time. Why on earth haven't I blocked you? It's quite clear you're not up to the challenge of an intelligent debate.

 

[England my lionheart]

Bear in mind that it was Fatihah who claimed the Qur'an "challenge" could be answered in any language. Apparently, the consensus says that it must be in Arabic. So it makes you wonder which Muslims actually know anything. It DOES help us understand why the "challenge" has never been successfully met however.

Yes its very apparent that the Muslims issuing the challenge don't actually know what the challenge is,Ghostaka and Riverfox have been absent since i posted a Suralikeit.com,perhaps they are still looking for the Judge which is difficult to be fair as they don't know who the Judge is.

 

[Breathe]

I'm bored of Fatihah. Before he can waste more of my time with useless drivel, I'm adding him to my ignore list. Wow, actually someone on there!

 

[Fatihah]

This relates to another thread (correct me if i'm wrong Fatihah) where Fatihah said that if you can falsify a religion with a large following,raise an Army and invade all your neighbouring countries then you will fail and therefore you will prove that Muhammed is the real seal of the prophets and Islam is the one true religion.

Response: My exact words and explanation of the challenge is quoted by brother Ghostaka in post 72.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Mestemia's question was not to me. Secondly, many agree with me, including yourself. That's why you haven't answered the challenge. You just insist on living in denial. Hopefully, this denial will come to pass, insha'Allah.

OK i will direct Mestemias question to you Fatihah,ready,you can phone a freind if you wish,where in the Quran does it say that the challenge should be in Arabic,i will extend this to where in the Quran does in say the challenge can be answered in any language.
So who are the many who agree with you or is it rather many Muslims would'nt touch this thread with a barge pole.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: My exact words and explanation of the challenge is quoted by brother Ghostaka in post 72.

Ah Ghostaka would be one of the many i guess,a real multitude we should prepare ourselves in this thred for the stampede of Muslims who agree with you

 

[Fatihah]

Are you actually saying YOU know what is "best" for me and have a moral obligation to "correct" my thinking? If so, that does tend to reek of self-righteousness.

Response: Yes, we all have the capability of knowing what's best for a person.

 

[Fatihah]

Actually, I said I'm interested in the criteria.


You're a vindictive little munafiq aren't you? Not only that, but you're also a liar. Nowhere have I claimed I don't want truth.
Considering I was the one who opened up an "Islam: Ask your Questions" section

(Quote Odion)
I did, you just didn't read it obviously. You have a habit of doing that.(End Quote)


Look who's talking.


Answer the question: who is going to judge it objectively?
Obviously you can't, so you're becoming hostile. Typical of someone who has no inward faith or inner spiritual strength.


Nothing is black and white, everything is a shade of grey.


*pats* I suggest you read sentences fully.


Wow, you really are a waste of time. Why on earth haven't I blocked you? It's quite clear you're not up to the challenge of an intelligent debate.

Response: Refer to post 417 of page 42.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Yes, we all have the capability of knowing what's best for a person.

So i have the capability of knowing whats best for you,where shall i start

 

[England my lionheart]

OK i will direct Mestemias question to you Fatihah,ready,you can phone a freind if you wish,where in the Quran does it say that the challenge should be in Arabic,i will extend this to where in the Quran does in say the challenge can be answered in any language.
So who are the many who agree with you or is it rather many Muslims would'nt touch this thread with a barge pole.

................................

 

[kai]

It seems not to be the case actually. The challenge like brother Nawab has mentioned, is more than just being able to replicate the eloquence and beauty of the Qur'an. There are a bunch of other factors a potential challenger must be able to accomplish as a result of producing a surah like that of those in the Qur'an.

Thus Allah says in the Chapter 2 of the Holy Qur'an:

(23) And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful.

It seems that brother Fatihah has already addressed this issue a couple of times now . Quote coming up...:
Originally Posted by Fatihah
Response: It's not about writing a book in arabic. You can write it in any language you want. I've explained the specific miracle before. So once again, here it is as presented in another thread:

" It is a common response that everytime this challenge is stated, someone responds with something like, "can you produce something like Shakespere or a symphony like Beethoven? If not, does this mean that they are prophets of God?"

So before the thread is filled with those type of responses, let me explain further. The challenge is to produce a chapter "like" the qur'an. Therefore, it does not mean to simply write something in arabic and think you've accomplished something. What is the qur'an? Well what is any religous scripture? It is supposed to be inspiration from God. It's purpose is to inspire people to follow its teachings. So to produce a chapter like the qur'an means to produce a chapter as inspirational and as successful as the qur'an.

So what's the purpose of that? Well by doing so, you learn the miracle of the qur'an. And what is that miracle? The miracle is the following:
It is impossible for a person/s to create their own religion and use their made up religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation.

This is the miracle of the qur'an. This is the miracle of Muhammad. This is a challenge for those who claim that the religion of islam is man made. Muhammad used a religion to inspired enough followers to conquer a nation. So to those who claim that this was the act of a man made religion, then why don't you do the same? Why don't you create your own religion and see how far you get? And when you do, you will fail. Not only will you will fail, you will fail miserably. Muhammad conquered Arabia. I guarantee you, you won't even be able to conquer your own neighborhood. And once you fail, you will be forced to ask yourself the question "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for me and anyone else?" That is when you will come to realize that it was the help of Allah that made it possible for Muhammad. Without Allah, even Muhammad would have failed. You disagree, the 1400+ year challenge still stands."


Peace be upon you (thanks for waiting but the wheel need not be re-invented; of sorts)

ah yes any language we want and to conquer a nation or at the very least our own neighbourhood?

 

[Fatihah]

OK i will direct Mestemias question to you Fatihah,ready,you can phone a freind if you wish,where in the Quran does it say that the challenge should be in Arabic,i will extend this to where in the Quran does in say the challenge can be answered in any language.
So who are the many who agree with you or is it rather many Muslims would'nt touch this thread with a barge pole.

Response: Whether one should answer the challenge in arabic depends on their reasons for why islam spread in the first place and how the qur'an came into existence. The miracle of the qur'an is of several, but the miracle of the challenge is explained in post 72.

You see, the explanation in post 72 confirms those other miracles and debunks any other theory that it is not from Allah. For example, if a person says that the qur'an helped islam spread because of it's beautiful arabic and not because of Allah, then one most produce a chapter like it. Now how do we know which is better and whether the claim was true. Simple. By answering the challenge of post 72. So for this particular challenge, arabic is necessary because it's the arabic that was it's main contention in the challenge.

Now let's say that someone says that islam was spread by the sword and used forced. So the challenge is to produce a chapter like the qur'an, get your sword, and answer the challenge of post 72. In other words, arabic is not needed here because it's not what's in contention. Whether it was spread by the sword is. Get it?

So to sum up, the challenge of the qur'an explained in post 72 is to be applied to every theory that the qur'an is not from Allah. Some theories require arabic, some don't.

The qur'an does the same. Verse 2:23 says produce a chapter. Verse 10:38 says to produce a like to it in answer to those who say it's forged. Not just a chapter. Then 11:13 says to produce 10 like it forged. As you can see, it's the same challenge being expressed differently to different theories. It has been quoted earlier in this thread for all of mankind and the jinns to produce the like of the qur'an. So it's not a different challenge being presented by all the muslims here but the same challenge adressing the different theories as to how the qur'an came about and how islam was spread.

 

[kai]

Response: Whether one should answer the challenge in arabic depends on their reasons for why islam spread in the first place and how the qur'an came into existence. The miracle of the qur'an is of several, but the miracle of the challenge is explained in post 72.

You see, the explanation in post 72 confirms those other miracles and debunks any other theory that it is not from Allah. For example, if a person says that the qur'an helped islam spread because of it's beautiful arabic and not because of Allah, then one most produce a chapter like it. Now how do we know which is better and whether the claim was true. Simple. By answering the challenge of post 72. So for this particular challenge, arabic is necessary because it's the arabic that was it's main contention in the challenge.

Now let's say that someone says that islam was spread by the sword and used forced. So the challenge is to produce a chapter like the qur'an, get your sword, and answer the challenge of post 72. In other words, arabic is not needed here because it's not what's in contention. Whether it was spread by the sword is. Get it?

So to sum up, the challenge of the qur'an explained in post 72 is to be applied to every theory that the qur'an is not from Allah. Some theories require arabic, some don't.

The qur'an does the same. Verse 2:23 says produce a chapter. Verse 10:38 says to produce a like to it in answer to those who say it's forged. Not just a chapter. Then 11:13 says to produce 10 like it forged. As you can see, it's the same challenge being expressed differently to different theories. It has been quoted earlier in this thread for all of mankind and the jinns to produce the like of the qur'an. So it's not a different challenge being presented by all the muslims here but the same challenge adressing the different theories as to how the qur'an came about and how islam was spread.

wow! i didnt think you could do it but you have you have surpassed yourself.:thud: