The Challenge in the Qur'an

[kai]

And by the way, don't give the Muslims here a hard time because they are not scholars. You know where to find scholars. Just go to their sites and ask them. You know better than me that we all came here to share with others what we know, not to issue official fatwas or opinions about our respective religion. I think those who have fun of those who want to share something with them have no sense of humor and they should be ashamed of themselves for harassing normal people like that.

Look whats wrong in saying i dont know if you dont know. and whos harrassing who?

So, if any of you knows Arabic and have managed to come up with a "Surah like it", go and give it to some experts to evaluate it for you because neither me nor anyone here can judge what you came up with whether in a positive or a negative way.

Seriously now theres absolutely no point in trying to do so is there?

For those of you who are sincere to know more, i'm very open to continue the discussion, but i assure you, i won't waste my time with wannabees or people that came just to mock and have fun.

Good luck!

I think i understand the nature of challenge enough now. Its fairly obvious that there is nothing that could equal the Quran to a Muslim, after all that's why he/she is a Muslim. The revelation was in Arabic for Arabs to understand so Its also obvious an Arab would hold Arabic in high esteem. the main reason i believe its an Arab religion is that you have to steep yourself in Arabic to truly understand it. Thats not a universal scripture its an Arab one.

 

[Zhakir]

I think i understand the nature of challenge enough now. Its fairly obvious that there is nothing that could equal the Quran to a Muslim, after all that's why he/she is a Muslim. The revelation was in Arabic for Arabs to understand so Its also obvious an Arab would hold Arabic in high esteem. the main reason i believe its an Arab religion is that you have to steep yourself in Arabic to truly understand it. Thats not a universal scripture its an Arab one.

I wonder how would a non-muslim Arab reply now to what you've said..Just know that the early Arabs lost the challenge of the Noble Quran and could not produce something like it.
It is wrong say that Islam is a religion for the Arabs only, niether Allah (swt) said this in the Quran nor Muhammad (saws) in Hadiths..Here are the scriptures, Where do they say that ? Next time becareful when claiming such things. Allah (swt) says in the Noble Quran 7:158
Say (O Muhammad): "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah.
And Muhammad (saws) called the nation's leaders to Islam and send messages to Hercules and Kisra .etc and commanded his companions to learn the languages of the people they are sent to.

 

[kai]

I wonder how would a non-muslim Arab reply now to what you've said..Just know that the early Arabs lost the challenge of the Noble Quran and could not produce something like it.
It is wrong say that Islam is a religion for the Arabs only, niether Allah (swt) said this in the Quran nor Muhammad (saws) in Hadiths..Here are the scriptures, Where do they say that ? Next time becareful when claiming such things. Allah (swt) says in the Noble Quran 7:158
Do you agree the revelation was in Arabic to an Arab in Arabia. do you also agree that an Arabic Quran is the only true Quran, and that to understand Islam properly you need to learn Arabic.


Say (O Muhammad): "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah.
And Muhammad (saws) called the nation's leaders to Islam and send messages to Hercules and Kisra .etc and commanded his companions to learn the languages of the people they are sent to.

I am well aware of to call for the Nations to Submit. and whether they learned other languages is irrelevant if Arabic is considered a holy language, and other languages take second place in Islam.



Verily, We have made this (Quran) easy, in your tongue, in order that they may give heed. (Quran 44:58)


Do you also agree that the first addressees of Quran were Arabs and they are being told that the Quran is in their own language for them to be able to understand it.

 

[England my lionheart]

IMO to understand the challenge it must be in the right context as it does'nt make sense as a universal challenge and i don't think that was its purpose,its purpose was for the time Muhammed

Oh Quraish, a new calamity has befallen you. Mohammed was a young man the most liked among you, most truthful in speech, and most trustworthy, until, when you saw gray hairs on his temple, and he brought you his message, you said that he was a sorcerer, but he is not, for we seen such people and their spitting and their knots; you said, a diviner, but we have seen such people and their behavior, and we have heard their rhymes; you said a soothsayer, but he is not a soothsayer, for we have heard their rhymes; and you said a poet, but he is not a poet, for we have heard all kinds of poetry; you said he was possessed, but he is not for we have seen the possessed, and he shows no signs of their gasping and whispering and delirium. Oh men of Quraish, look to your affairs, for by Allah a serious thing has befallen you.

You see here the challenge in its context,it was a persuader for the unbelievers,if we present this challenge now universally it does'nt fit,i among millions of others do not speak Arabic so the eloquence and true meaning is lost straight away if for example one reads an English translation.
So IMO it was a challenge that was presented 1400 years ago but isn't one to be considered now and that is for obvious reasons.

 

[Zhakir]

I am well aware of to call for the Nations to Submit. and whether they learned other languages is irrelevant if Arabic is considered a holy language, and other languages take second place in Islam.



Verily, We have made this (Quran) easy, in your tongue, in order that they may give heed. (Quran 44:58)


Do you also agree that the first addressees of Quran were Arabs and they are being told that the Quran is in their own language for them to be able to understand it.

The Arabic language helps you to understand Quran better,yet the translations of the meaning are available,and you can read the Quran in the language you understand the best,it's not an obligation in Islam to learn the Arabic language.

Yes the Quran was revealed in Arabic
Verily, We have made this Quran easy, in your tongue, in order that they may give heed. 44:58
As all messangers of Allah (swt)
14:4
And We did not send any messenger but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then Allah makes whom He pleases err and He guides whom He pleases and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
Moses for example spoke egyptian in addition to Aramice because he was sent to egyptian people as well.
Again i will ask you to becareful and not to be ignorant, none of the islamic authentic sources states that Islam is a religion for the Arabs only.
And again Muhammad (saws) called the nation's leaders to Islam and send messages to Hercules and Kisra .etc and commanded his companions to learn the languages of the people they are sent to.
Noble Quran 7:158
Say (O Muhammad): "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah.

 

[maro]

Very Good post Tashan..May you be rewarded bro.

Of course, anybody can read the Quran, but can everybody know that the Quran contains all of the above? of course not. Experts in language, literature, religions, voices, etc, have the ability to evaluate such a masterpiece.

I just want to say that i am not an expert in any of the above...I am just an ordinary muslim with a native arabic tongue..
however ,I say that if 1000 quotations were introduced to me to figure which are quranic and which are not...I will not make a single mistake by the aid of allah...
and if someone asked me ,Why ?..why did you think this quotation was quranic ? and why did you think this was not quranic ?...The truth is ,i won't be able to answer......

I won't be able to say because 1..2 and 3..., probably because i don't know what makes the quranic style unique in the first place....it's the judgment of my ears....however ,i can't be providing reasons for it..

My eyes see the quranic structure built up by the same alphabet we use....however ,my ears know for sure that it's not like any thing else we can construct by the very same alphabet...why ?...i really don't know why....and i don't think anyone else knows for sure....
Of course the experts can make their own ijtihad to figure that out...but i -personally- don't think the quran will reveal its secret to anyone....I also sometimes pity those who translate the meanings of the quran....for some verses ,i think it's mission impossible to deliver all the connotaions and magic to the translation

Surat Maryam ,for example is fascinating..,I'd like ti listen to the whole quran...but the inner music of this sura in particular is something that blows my mind :YouTube - Sura Maryam 19: 1 - 36 Mishary Alafasy - Part 1


I also would like to add to the reaosns Tashan mentioned why was the quran revealed in arabic....that it has a lot to do with the arabic language itself....,I have learned a little bit of so many languages...and although every language has its own beauty...nothing is comparable to arabic ,for me...but i might be biased ,though :sarcastic

 

[kai]

The Arabic language helps you to understand Quran better,yet the translations of the meaning are available,and you can read the Quran in the language you understand the best,it's not an obligation in Islam to learn the Arabic language.

I can read a translation of the Quran in English but i cannot fully take in the Quran in any other language but Arabic

Yes the Quran was revealed in Arabic
Verily, We have made this Quran easy, in your tongue, in order that they may give heed. 44:58
As all messangers of Allah (swt)
14:4
And We did not send any messenger but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then Allah makes whom He pleases err and He guides whom He pleases and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
Moses for example spoke egyptian in addition to Aramice because he was sent to egyptian people as well. What?
Again i will ask you to becareful and not to be ignorant, none of the islamic authentic sources states that Islam is a religion for the Arabs only.
And again Muhammad (saws) called the nation's leaders to Islam and send messages to Hercules and Kisra .etc and commanded his companions to learn the languages of the people they are sent to.
Noble Quran 7:158
Say (O Muhammad): "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah.

Again i am well aware of the offer to submit.

 

[Peace]

Very Good post Tashan..May you be rewarded bro.



I just want to say that i am not an expert in any of the above...I am just an ordinary muslim with a native arabic tongue..
however ,I say that if 1000 quotations were introduced to me to figure which are quranic and which are not...I will not make a single mistake by the aid of allah...
and if someone asked me ,Why ?..why did you think this quotation was quranic ? and why did you think this was not quranic ?...The truth is ,i won't be able to answer......

I won't be able to say because 1..2 and 3..., probably because i don't know what makes the quranic style unique in the first place....it's the judgment of my ears....however ,i can't be providing reasons for it..

My eyes see the quranic structure built up by the same alphabet we use....however ,my ears know for sure that it's not like any thing else we can construct by the very same alphabet...why ?...i really don't know why....and i don't think anyone else knows for sure....
Of course the experts can make their own ijtihad to figure that out...but i -personally- don't think the quran will reveal its secret to anyone....I also sometimes pity those who translate the meanings of the quran....for some verses ,i think it's mission impossible to deliver all the connotaions and magic to the translation

Surat Maryam ,for example is fascinating..,I'd like ti listen to the whole quran...but the inner music of this sura in particular is something that blows my mind :YouTube - Sura Maryam 19: 1 - 36 Mishary Alafasy - Part 1


I also would like to add to the reaosns Tashan mentioned why was the quran revealed in arabic....that it has a lot to do with the arabic language itself....,I have learned a little bit of so many languages...and although every language has its own beauty...nothing is comparable to arabic ,for me...but i might be biased ,though :sarcastic

Great post sister and I second what you said :yes:

 

[Peace]

The revelation was in Arabic for Arabs to understand so Its also obvious an Arab would hold Arabic in high esteem. the main reason i believe its an Arab religion is that you have to steep yourself in Arabic to truly understand it. Thats not a universal scripture its an Arab one.

Look around kai and you will know that you are wrong. The number of non Arab Muslims exceeds the number of Arab Muslims. And thousands have been converting to Islam which makes it clear that Islam is not for Arabs only.

 

[England my lionheart]

Look around kai and you will know that you are wrong. The number of non Arab Muslims exceeds the number of Arab Muslims. And thousands have been converting to Islam which makes it clear that Islam is not for Arabs only.

What i find interesting and a little disturbing as pointed out by Tashan converts say words that they do not know the meaning of when praying,definately not something i could do.

 

[Peace]

What i find interesting and a little disturbing as pointed out by Tashan converts say words that they do not know the meaning of when praying,definately not something i could do.

New converts learn little by little Eml. They do know what the words mean by reading the translation too simply.

 

[England my lionheart]

New converts learn little by little Eml. They do know what the words mean by reading the translation too simply.

Fact,the translation is not the same as the original,it matters little to me what new converts do its their choice,its just a little strange that you would recite words that you do not know the full meaning.

 

[McBell]

its just a little strange that you would recite words that you do not know the full meaning.

Not to me.
One sees it all the time here on RF.
They biggest difference is that here on RF, the words are most often in the same language that the presenter speaks....

 

[England my lionheart]

LOL too true

 

[Peace]

Fact,the translation is not the same as the original,it matters little to me what new converts do its their choice,its just a little strange that you would recite words that you do not know the full meaning.

That's faith of the believers Eml that make them recite verses that they don't know the full meaning of it.
You don't also know the extraordinary effect that the Quranic verses have on the believers.

 

[kai]

Look around kai and you will know that you are wrong. The number of non Arab Muslims exceeds the number of Arab Muslims. And thousands have been converting to Islam which makes it clear that Islam is not for Arabs only.

Hi Peace

Non Arab or not you still need to learn the Arab Language in order to fully understand your own religion isn't that right?

it doesn't mater how many people convert to me , and why do theyl take Arab names? do you think Christianity is native to the UK where i live ? no its another middle eastern religion spread here, and popularity is not a sign of validity.

I am not having a go but i am looking at it as an outsider , the prophet was Arab that's OK , the Quran is i Arabic that's ok, but the Quran i have written in English is not considered a proper Quran. i cant learn Islam properly unless i immerse myself in Arabic , even paradise sounds Arabic to me. and i wonder what the Arabs would be without Islam? and i wonder do the Arabs consider themselves through Islam to be the leaders of mankind?

 

[kai]

That's faith of the believers Eml that make them recite verses that they don't know the full meaning of it.
You don't also know the extraordinary effect that the Quranic verses have on the believers.

you will find the same effect in most religions.

 

[Peace]

Hi Peace

Non Arab or not you still need to learn the Arab Language in order to fully understand your own religion isn't that right?

it doesn't mater how many people convert to me , and why do theyl take Arab names? do you think Christianity is native to the UK where i live ? no its another middle eastern religion spread here, and popularity is not a sign of validity.

I am not having a go but i am looking at it as an outsider , the prophet was Arab that's OK , the Quran is i Arabic that's ok, but the Quran i have written in English is not considered a proper Quran. i cant learn Islam properly unless i immerse myself in Arabic , even paradise sounds Arabic to me.

In spite of that Islam remains a universal religion meant for all humanity.

even paradise sounds Arabic to me

Add to your knowledge Kai that the language of Paradise is Arabic

 

[England my lionheart]

That's faith of the believers Eml that make them recite verses that they don't know the full meaning of it.
You don't also know the extraordinary effect that the Quranic verses have on the believers.

Yes Peace thats exactly what it is "faith" and you are right,i do not know the extraordinary effect of the Quranic verses as i do not speak Arabic.

 

[kai]

In spite of that Islam remains a universal religion meant for all humanity.

as long as you learn arabic. would you mind if i ask are you an Arab?

Add to your knowledge Kai that the language of Paradise is Arabic

well what a surprise.