The Challenge in the Qur'an

[England my lionheart]

Yes Peace thats exactly what it is "faith" and you are right,i do not know the extraordinary effect of the Quranic verses as i do not speak Arabic so i have missed some of the meaning.
This is why when the challenge was issued it was'nt universal,it was local to Arabs,now thats not saying Islam isn't a universal faith but i am saying that the challenge was'nt meant to be universal and thats why in any context out of Muhammeds time it does'nt make sense.

 

[Peace]

Yes Peace thats exactly what it is "faith" and you are right,i do not know the extraordinary effect of the Quranic verses as i do not speak Arabic.

It has its great effects on the non-Arabic speakers too Eml
Many non-Muslims feel a kind of peace while listening to the Quran recitation. Sister maro has provided a link to a Quranic chapter recitation, so you can try it

 

[kai]

tell me please if the words in the Quran were dictated to Mohammed (pbuh) through the angel word for word then the language is not the prophets, but Gods and thats why the Quran is inimitable. yes?


secondly are your prayers acceptable to god in any other tongue than Arabic?

 

[Fatihah]

Yes Peace thats exactly what it is "faith" and you are right,i do not know the extraordinary effect of the Quranic verses as i do not speak Arabic so i have missed some of the meaning.
This is why when the challenge was issued it was'nt universal,it was local to Arabs,now thats not saying Islam isn't a universal faith but i am saying that the challenge was'nt meant to be universal and thats why in any context out of Muhammeds time it does'nt make sense.

Response: The challenge itself is universal because the message of the whole qur'an is universal.

 

[Peace]

tell me please if the words in the Quran were dictated to Mohammed (pbuh) through the angel word for word then the language is not the prophets, but Gods and thats why the Quran is inimitable. yes?

Correct :yes:

secondly are your prayers acceptable to god in any other tongue than Arabic?

Our five daily prayers must be done in Arabic. Du'a or supplication during the prayer could be done in the believer's native language, but the recitation of the Quran must be done in Arabic since it is the holy text and had been revealed in Arabic.

 

[kai]

Response: The challenge itself is universal because the message of the whole qur'an is universal.

Not according to some of the others it has to be in Arabic , how is that universal?

 

[kai]

Correct :yes:



Our five daily prayers must be done in Arabic. Du'a or supplication during the prayer could be done in the believer's native language, but the recitation of the Quran must be done in Arabic since it is the holy text and had been revealed in Arabic.

Thank you Peace .

 

[Fatihah]

Not according to some of the others it has to be in Arabic , how is that universal?

Response: I don't know who the "others" are but unless "the others" have proof from the qur'an which says that it has to be in arabic, than "the others" have no proof.

 

[kai]

Ok the only true Quran is an Arabic one mainly because god revealed it in Arabic,the prophet was an Arab, God doesn't hear your prayers unless they are in Arabic, The language of paradise is Arabic but its not an Arab religion.
yep that makes sense.

and Fatihah has put the cat amongst the pidgeons.

 

[YmirGF]

Ok the only true Quran is an Arabic one mainly because god revealed it in Arabic,the prophet was an Arab, God doesn't hear your prayers unless they are in Arabic, The language of paradise is Arabic but its not an Arab religion.
yep that makes sense.

Can you say "anthropomorphic projection".

and Fatihah has put the cat amongst the pidgeons.

I see words. Where is your proof? :drool:

 

[Fatihah]

Ok the only true Quran is an Arabic one mainly because god revealed it in Arabic,the prophet was an Arab, God doesn't hear your prayers unless they are in Arabic, The language of paradise is Arabic but its not an Arab religion.
yep that makes sense.

and Fatihah has put the cat amongst the pidgeons.

Response: Makes perfect sense. If you speak to a people, you speak in their language. Since Muhammad(pbuh) is an arab amongst arab people who speaks arabic, yes it makes perfect sense for the revelation to be in arabic.

What doesn't make sense is when someone uses this logical concept as some sort of proof that the qur'an, the challenge, or the religion of islam is supposed to be just for the arabs when neither the qur'an, the challenge, or the religion of islam says so, nor can you or anyone else show otherwise.

But what we do find in the qur'an is clear cut language that says: O mankind, truly I am a Messenger to you all from Allah to whom belongs the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no god but He. He gives life and He causes death. So believe in Allah and his Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believes in Allah and His words; and follow Him that you may be rightly guided".
Ch.7:158

From this verse, we can clearly see that the message is to all of mankind, not just the arabs.

 

[kai]

Response: Makes perfect sense. If you speak to a people, you speak in their language. Since Muhammad(pbuh) is an arab amongst arab people who speaks arabic, yes it makes perfect sense for the revelation to be in arabic.

What doesn't make sense is when someone uses this logical concept as some sort of proof that the qur'an, the challenge, or the religion of islam is supposed to be just for the arabs when neither the qur'an, the challenge, or the religion of islam says so, nor can you or anyone else show otherwise.

oh its just the stuff i outlined that makes me think it s an Arab religion. and as for the Quran challenge how can a sura like it not be in Arabic even a fully translated Quran is not equal to an Arabic Quran.

But what we do find in the qur'an is clear cut language that says: O mankind, truly I am a Messenger to you all from Allah to whom belongs the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no god but He. He gives life and He causes death. So believe in Allah and his Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believes in Allah and His words; and follow Him that you may be rightly guided".
Ch.7:158

From this verse, we can clearly see that the message is to all of mankind, not just the arabs.

yes as long as all mankind speaks Arabic its for all mankind

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Makes perfect sense. If you speak to a people, you speak in their language. Since Muhammad(pbuh) is an arab amongst arab people who speaks arabic, yes it makes perfect sense for the revelation to be in arabic.

Agreed

What doesn't make sense is when someone uses this logical concept as some sort of proof that the qur'an, the challenge, or the religion of islam is supposed to be just for the arabs when neither the qur'an, the challenge, or the religion of islam says so, nor can you or anyone else show otherwise.

No,all i said was the challenge isn't universal.

But what we do find in the qur'an is clear cut language that says: O mankind, truly I am a Messenger to you all from Allah to whom belongs the Kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no god but He. He gives life and He causes death. So believe in Allah and his Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believes in Allah and His words; and follow Him that you may be rightly guided".
Ch.7:158

From this verse, we can clearly see that the message is to all of mankind, not just the arabs.

Except the challenge of course

 

[England my lionheart]

In fact if you are other than Muslim and cannot understand Arabic you will struggle to get the full meaning of the Quran,i mean whats wrong with it being a religion for Arabs,after all the Jews have their own religion.

 

[Fatihah]

yes as long as all mankind speaks Arabic its for all mankind

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?

As for the challenge not having to be in arabic, that's been explained in post 439 of page 44.

 

[kai]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?


so are you saying that your daily prayers dont have to be in Arabic? are you saying that Arabic is not the language of Paradise? are you saying that you dont have to read Arabic to get the full meaning of the Quran?
As for the challenge not having to be in arabic, that's been explained in post 439 of page 44.

yes but we dont have a concensus and how about my point that even a fully translated Quran is not equal to an Arabic one , so that leads me to beleive that any attempt at the challenge must be in Arabic. NO?

 

[Fatihah]

In fact if you are other than Muslim and cannot understand Arabic you will struggle to get the full meaning of the Quran,i mean whats wrong with it being a religion for Arabs,after all the Jews have their own religion.

Response: It's wrong because the qur'an clearly says as highlighted in ch.7:158 that it's not just for the arabs. Secondly, one can learn the meaning through it's translation.

 

[kai]

Response: It's wrong because the qur'an clearly says as highlighted in ch.7:158 that it's not just for the arabs. Secondly, one can learn the meaning through it's translation.

oh i dont think so! maybe you should ask for guidence on this one in the Muslim section

 

[Fatihah]

yes but we dont have a concensus and how about my point that even a fully translated Quran is not equal to an Arabic one , so that leads me to beleive that any attempt at the challenge must be in Arabic. NO?

Response: Truth is not based on consensus. It is based on proof. As for a translated qur'an not being equal to an arabic qur'an, the only inequality is the language. It's meaning and purpose is still the same. The language has nothing to do with it's essence, just like the difference in our skin color has nothing to do with our essence.

 

[kai]

Response: Truth is not based on consensus. It is based on proof. As for a translated qur'an not being equal to an arabic qur'an, the only inequality is the language. It's meaning and purpose is still the same. The language has nothing to do with it's essence, just like the difference in our skin color has nothing to do with our essence.

i think your wrong Fatihah! the language has everything to do with the essence of the Quran, the language is not the prophets its gods. or so i am told.



this might be of interest:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam/83306-arabic-language.html