The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Fatihah]

why do you keep on about invading other countries ? you sound like George Bush

Response: Why do you ask for proof and then deny the truth. You sound like George Bush.

 

[kai]

why would someone not want to know the truth? and the challenge is very interesting in akind of elusive way like a phantom or a wil-o-the-wisp kind of way.

 

[kai]

Response: Why do you ask for proof and then deny the truth. You sound like George Bush.

I havnt asked for proof ,at least i don't think so, what i want is rationality.

 

[McBell]

Please show where Allah states that the challenge must be answered in Arabic.
Or perhaps it was not Allah who made the original challenge.....

 

[Fatihah]

So you agree " Yes, it was a challenge made during Muhammad's time" but now the challenge is comming from us,does that mean that you are a spokesman for all Muslims .
"and today we're making that same challenge for your time. And just like the time of Muhammad (pbuh)" so can i ask on what authority you are issuing the challenge.

Response: The authority of morals. When a person does wrong, it is a moral responsibility to guide them the right way. If a person is misinformed, it is a moral responsibility to inform them of what's right. So on a moral authority, I as well as every muslim, has a moral authority help present the truth to non-muslims. Thus the challenge must be presented.

 

[Breathe]

Response: Words of those in denial. Why else would someone not want to know the truth?

I didn't say I don't want to know the truth. I said it's not what I'm interested in right now. Besides, the contest is rigged.

Response: Amazing. When asked for who's the judge that the qur'an is not from Allah, who completely dodge the question. The hypocrisy and your denial is so obvious. Why wouldn't you answer the questions?

I did, you just didn't read it obviously. You have a habit of doing that.

It's very simple. Who was the judge for the non-muslims that the qur'an is not from Allah? And if you accept that the qur'an is not from Allah, who was the judge? And what judge decided that there needs to be a judge for the challenge?

What's that got to with the criteria?

And, how can one judge something without a judge without it being a matter of personal opinion? A Muslim won't believe it. This shows your hypocrisy, and weak faith. You can't find something, so you delve into ad hominem attacks and rudeness. In fact, I don't think you've posted much that has been useful, and your "proof" that you provide is never actual proof. Like how you proved that machmadim was Muhammadim was by saying "No, it says Muhammadim". And you have the cheek to call me a hypocrite?

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Sure. In post 610 of page 61 of the "Muhammad the Greatest: A comparative study" thread, you say the following:

"I can see it working 1400 years ago when people had less education and savvy so you are right i would fail to make up a religion and go invading other countries but back then i think with the promise of booty it would have been easily attainable."

Above, we can see from your own words that you admit that you can't answer the challenge and testify to the fact that you could not make a religion and go and invade other countries. It is similarly repeated in the same thread 2 post later and in post 197 of page 20 of this very thread says basically the same thing.Denial confirmed.

There is nothing to deny,there is no current challenge,even you have agreed that it was a challenge for Muhammeds time so i at least have something to back up what i am saying,however you have nothing which you have consistently proved throughout the thread,so instead of detracting from it why don't you make a possitive contribution,that is if your allowed.

 

[McBell]

I wonder why all the Muslims have me on ignore....?
Have I offended them somehow?


I have to wonder, because I have repeatedly asked the same things in this thread and have been thus far completely ignored by every single Muslim in this thread.....


I wonder why they choose to ignore me...
I mean I just took a shower (I even used soap and shampoo), brushed my teeth, even put on deodorant.
Yet no one seems to even see my posts.

 

[kai]

Please show where Allah states that the challenge must be answered in Arabic.
Or perhaps it was not Allah who made the original challenge.....

I think it would be great if someone answered Mestemias question. the thread keeps veering this way and that ( yes i am as guilty as others)and the basic questions never get answered.


and Fatihah seriously now! what this thing you have about invading other countries?

 

[Breathe]

Yet no one seems to even see my posts.

:ignore::run::sleep:




Even if you do get a response, I doubt it will be anything worthwhile (probably the usual "because the Qur'an is in Arabic" response). Just keep posting messages until you're answered, like me.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: The authority of morals. When a person does wrong, it is a moral responsibility to guide them the right way. If a person is misinformed, it is a moral responsibility to inform them of what's right. So on a moral authority, I as well as every muslim, has a moral authority help present the truth to non-muslims. Thus the challenge must be presented.

Oh come on Fatihah,this has nothing to do with moral authority,you cannot inform people of whats right unless your information is proven to be right (i feel a prophesy comming on) and where does it say this in the Quran.
Instead of attacking what you see as an attack on your faith try looking at this from a non believers point of view.

 

[YmirGF]

The authority of morals.

Hmm, I've never been "big" on morals or morality for that matter. Morality is just so subjective.

When a person does wrong, it is a moral responsibility to guide them the right way.

Personally speaking, I feel little need to "correct" others. I much prefer to let life teach them.

If a person is misinformed, it is a moral responsibility to inform them of what's right.

There is no such moral authority to do so. If you think there is then that is in your imagination only.

So on a moral authority, I as well as every muslim, has a moral authority help present the truth to non-muslims. Thus the challenge must be presented.

So-called "truth" is relative, Fatihah. Why do you feel a compulsion to issue an impossible challenge? Do you think that doing so makes Muslims look wise?

 

[YmirGF]

I wonder why all the Muslims have me on ignore....?
Have I offended them somehow?


I have to wonder, because I have repeatedly asked the same things in this thread and have been thus far completely ignored by every single Muslim in this thread.....


I wonder why they choose to ignore me...
I mean I just took a shower (I even used soap and shampoo), brushed my teeth, even put on deodorant.
Yet no one seems to even see my posts.

One grows to expect such continued insults, Mes.

I also note that we are back to the requirement of the so-called "challenge" being done in Arabic.
I could have sworn that dear ol' Fatihah said it could be done in any language.

I guess he was trying to be helpful, but you can imagine his little grin when you go rushing up with your freshly completed copy in Swahili and he sniffs contemptuously,
"It ain't in Arabic, infidel. YOU LOSE! Enjoy your trip to the Hellfire, ***hole."

 

[England my lionheart]

I think it would be great if someone answered Mestemias question. the thread keeps veering this way and that ( yes i am as guilty as others)and the basic questions never get answered.


and Fatihah seriously now! what this thing you have about invading other countries?

This relates to another thread (correct me if i'm wrong Fatihah) where Fatihah said that if you can falsify a religion with a large following,raise an Army and invade all your neighbouring countries then you will fail and therefore you will prove that Muhammed is the real seal of the prophets and Islam is the one true religion.

 

[kai]

This relates to another thread (correct me if i'm wrong Fatihah) where Fatihah said that if you can falsify a religion with a large following,raise an Army and invade all your neighbouring countries then you will fail and therefore you will prove that Muhammed is the real seal of the prophets and Islam is the one true religion.

yes i remember i asked how this could be? with the religion of peace and all, i think the conquests were peaceful unless i could prove otherwise.

Fatihah you must remember to put "peacefully" invading other countries , its confusing

 

[YmirGF]

yes i remember i asked how this could be? with the religion of peace and all, i think the conquests were peaceful unless i could prove otherwise.

Fatihah you must remember to put "peacefully" invading other countries , its confusing

Oh come now, Kai. What could be more spiritual than fighting unbelievers to show them you believe there is no compulsion in religion? Like, seriously. :sorry1:

I also wondered what happens if you accept the challenge, but you and your followers like your current form of government?
What then? No booty or conquest? *Sniffle* :sorry1:

What is a budding psychotic megalomaniac to do? :drool:

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Odion]I didn't say I don't want to know the truth. I said it's not what I'm interested in right now. Besides, the contest is rigged.(End Quote)

Response: Then there's no need to go any further if you're not even interested in the truth. Thanks for the clarification. That being said, I would like to encourage all of my brothers and sisters here to discontinue any conversation or explanation about islam to Odion, because he has clearly admitted that he is not interested in the truth. You are wasting your talking to someone who is not interested and it serves no purpose.

(Quote Odion)
I did, you just didn't read it obviously. You have a habit of doing that.(End Quote)

Response: Wow. A blatant lie. You do realize that we all can go to post 390 and verify that you haven't answered the questions as to who is the judge that the qur'an is not from Allah and who is the judge that the challenge needs a judge? It's in black and white. Yet you would make a blatant lie anyway and say
that you did? Now, I once caught a person in a lie before and when I went to quote the post, it was edited out. So before that happens again, let me below display the post of Odion, his response to my post of 375, and we can clearly see that he doesn't answer the questions.

I'm not taking the challenge, because quite simply: I don't need to challenge it. It's not important to me. Finding out the actual challenge is more interesting.


Who is going to?
You're not going to judge it fairly.


Likewise.


Then how do you know if the surah wins? Suralikeit.com claims to be as good.


Who can say otherwise?
Is there proof Muhammad was a prophet? Proof there even is a God?

Sure, we may believe in them, but do we have proof?


I never said that?


No, we said, "who can judge it fairly"? Muslims will say "this isn't equal to the Qur'an", because to say the Qur'an is equalled by something man has produced will produce a painful doom.

A non-Muslim judge, and the Muslims will say, "The non-Muslims deliberately believe it is equal to the Qur'an".

a non-Arab speaker, and the Muslims will say "They don't speak Arabic, they cannot judge".

So, who actually can judge?


Likewise.

 

[kai]

indeed Fatihah who is the judge to make the judgement that a judge is in fact needed to judge at all?




P.S. do you think you could answer Mestemias question by the way, oh sorry it was you who said it didn't have to be Arabic wasn't it, my apologies. is that still your opinion?

 

[YmirGF]

Now, I once caught a person in a lie before and when I went to quote the post, it was edited out.

This has happened only once? I feel somewhat vindicated.

 

[kai]

drive by liars who then get rid of the evidence ,their the worst kind. it once happened to me i thought i was going mad, no such luck.