The Challenge in the Qur'an

[England my lionheart]

Once you become a Muslim you cannot change your mind as you can be punnished with death/imprisonment,you cannot challenge the Quran because you get sent to Hell and this is the beautiful peaceful religion we hear so much of.

 

[McBell]

so where we with this "challenge" we cant get a consensus on whether it has to be in Arabic or not i personally don't see how you can do it otherwise, only an Arabic Quran is a true Quran.

But who judges it? that seems to me to be the biggest problem a judge should be impartial shouldn't he/she ?

I asked the same question in post 86. Does anyone have an answer?

I asked these very same things in post #5

I have asked aswell but so far nobody seems to know,in fact there does'nt appear to be any agreement with anything to do with the challenge although ManESLs post had some sense to it.

Agreed.
Funny thing is, at least Kent Hovinds "challenge" is posted and readily available for all the world to see.

What I do find interesting is how there have been so many additions added to the challenge by Muslims.

I wonder why Muslims feel the need to keep adding more and more conditions to the challenge that Allah himself set up?

Once you become a Muslim you cannot change your mind as you can be punnished with death/imprisonment,you cannot challenge the Quran because you get sent to Hell and this is the beautiful peaceful religion we hear so much of.

If I only had the internet and this forum as my source for Islamic beliefs, I woul dhave to agree with you 100%.

 

[kai]

we have all been asking for info on the "challenge" in the end its a little dissapointing that its all smoke and mirrors. At first i thought it was clever but when we started talking about it being a 7th century Arab challenge i realised that's exactly what it is.

In my humble opinion Islam is an Arab religion for Arabs, Arabic has attained holy status and Islam has spread far beyond anything Mohamed could have imagined.

i am not trying to be offensive here but honestly this "challenge " is evidence here enough to show me that its in no way divine.

 

[riverfox]

Or do they say:- "A Poet! we await for him some calamity (hatched) by Time!.Say thou: "Await ye!- I too will wait along with you!".Is it that their faculties of understanding urge them to this, or are they but a people transgressing beyond bounds?.Or do they say: He has forged it. Nay! they do not believe.Let them then produce a recital like unto it,- If (it be) they speak the truth!.
Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?.Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.
[Al-Qur'an 52:30-36]
So YimrGF, have you brought your Qur'an like yet ?

 

[England my lionheart]

we have all been asking for info on the "challenge" in the end its a little dissapointing that its all smoke and mirrors. At first i thought it was clever but when we started talking about it being a 7th century Arab challenge i realised that's exactly what it is.

In my humble opinion Islam is an Arab religion for Arabs, Arabic has attained holy status and Islam has spread far beyond anything Mohamed could have imagined.

i am not trying to be offensive here but honestly this "challenge " is evidence here enough to show me that its in no way divine.

Morning Kai,you are up early,i agree with you and ManESL,this was'nt meant as a challenge to everyone but a localised challenge to the Arabs of the 7th century,there are simmilarities with the Catholic faith,however you can leave the Catholic faith quite safely

 

[kai]

Or do they say:- "A Poet! we await for him some calamity (hatched) by Time!.Say thou: "Await ye!- I too will wait along with you!".Is it that their faculties of understanding urge them to this, or are they but a people transgressing beyond bounds?.Or do they say: He has forged it. Nay! they do not believe.Let them then produce a recital like unto it,- If (it be) they speak the truth!.
Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?.Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.
[Al-Qur'an 52:30-36]
So YimrGF, have you brought your Qur'an like yet ?

with respect riverfox havnt you read any of this thread? what are your criteria to produce a sura like it and who will judge it you?

 

[England my lionheart]

I have been reading about "the true Furqan" which is a book that is supposed to rival the Quran,there are some sites urging Muslims not to read or believe it and that it derives from America,so i wonder who judged it?

 

[England my lionheart]

Here is what one site says of "the true Furqan

[SIZE=+1]To: World[/SIZE] Muslims everywhere have found "The True Furqan" a fake and this so called Quran opposes many Islamic beliefs. In one of its ayats it describes having more than one wife as fornication, divorce being non-permissible and it uses a new system for the sharing out of the will, opposing the current one. It states that Jihad is HARAAM. This book even goes as far as attacking Allah, Subhanahu WA Tahala! The two American printing companies; "Omega 2001" and "Wine Press" are involved in the publishing of "The True Furqan." We must stop the distribution of this book. The book can also be found at: The True Fuqran
This site should be shutdown.

So it has been judged,but by who?

 

[riverfox]

We all will judge it,just produce it.
2.24
But if ye cannot, and of a surety ye cannot, then fear the fire whose fuel is Men and Stones, which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

 

[England my lionheart]

We all will judge it,just produce it.
2.24
But if ye cannot, and of a surety ye cannot, then fear the fire whose fuel is Men and Stones, which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

So you are saying that you had a voice in judging "the true Furqan",do you really know the criteria for this challenge? i personally don't believe you or any Muslim does,pertinent to the 7th century Arabs perhaps but not outside of that.

 

[England my lionheart]

A little more on "The true Furqan" a book written by two Arab Christians that they say rivals the Quran,it is written in both Arabic and English and has even been distributed in Kuwait,it incorporates some Christian teachings like the Trinity.
I have'nt read it myself but there are petitions from many Muslims against it,so i would be interested in hearing Muslims view on it.

 

[riverfox]

A little more on "The true Furqan" a book written by two Arab Christians that they say rivals the Quran,it is written in both Arabic and English and has even been distributed in Kuwait,it incorporates some Christian teachings like the Trinity.
I have'nt read it myself but there are petitions from many Muslims against it,so i would be interested in hearing Muslims view on it.

Taking this the challenge with a book you haven't even red ?
How is "The True Furqan" is a Qur'an like ? This book even goes as far as attacking Allah (swt),this incorporating the Christian belief of the three spirits. And this so called true Furqan or Qur'an opposes many Islamic beliefs. in one of its ayats it describes having more than one wife as fornification, divorce being non-permissable.It states that Jihad is haram.
Produce A like of the Qur'an ,if you think the 7th centurey people could write it, produce a similar book written 1400 years ago, if you are truthful.
A book that talkes about similar to these:
Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an

THE UNIVERSE IN GASEOUS STATE Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”
41-Elucidated, 11

PERFECT ORBITS7- By the Sky with its ingeniously devised paths (orbits).
51-The Dispersing, 7

SEX IN PLANTS53- And has sent down water from the sky. With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants.
20-Ta-He, 53

3- ...And fruit of every kind He made in pairs two and two.
13-The Thunder, 3

CREATION IN PAIRS36- Glory be to the One, who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as themselves, and other things they do not know.

36-Ya-Seen, 36

RETURNED BY THE SKY11- By the sky that returns
86-The Knocker, 11

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SUN AND THE MOON5- It is He who made the sun to be a radiant and the moon to be a light ...
10-Jonah, 5

 

[nawab]

nice work Riverfox, i didnt knew about the Sex in th eplants

 

[kai]

are you trying to tell me that in the 7th century no one knew about growing plants, about cross fertilisation about the date plam?

Plant sexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Phoenix dactylifera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

agriculture is thousands of years old.



and is this going to turn into another Science in the Quran thread, don't you think there is enough of them.

 

[kai]

nice work Riverfox, i didnt knew about the Sex in th eplants

It depends what you consider sex to be doesnt it? do you really think there are male and female apples that get together in the fruit bowl and produce the patter of tiny pips.

 

[nawab]

i understood him at first but thanks anyway

 

[kai]

what you don't believe in the Furqan funny that it says in there that you wouldnt. is that a sign of it being divinely inspired?

you see you cannot even find the Furqan lacking in meeting the challenge because there is no criteria to judge it on. Not in the Quran anyway.

 

[YmirGF]

So YimrGF, have you brought your Qur'an like yet ?

Hiya Riverfox. I am simply asking questions about this so-called "challenge". Why are you getting so defensive?
Surely you can understand that if one is considering taking a challenge that one would endeavor to learn about all the requirements of said challenge.
Is that difficult to understand or am I being unreasonable?

Is it considered rude to ask questions about this so-called challenge?

Can you point me at any CLEAR directions for following the challenge?

Do you have the slightest idea why many of us don't think that the so-called "challenge" is even a realistic challenge?

 

[YmirGF]

Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an

THE UNIVERSE IN GASEOUS STATE Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”
41-Elucidated, 11

PERFECT ORBITS7- By the Sky with its ingeniously devised paths (orbits).
51-The Dispersing, 7

SEX IN PLANTS53- And has sent down water from the sky. With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants.
20-Ta-He, 53

3- ...And fruit of every kind He made in pairs two and two.
13-The Thunder, 3

CREATION IN PAIRS36- Glory be to the One, who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as themselves, and other things they do not know.

36-Ya-Seen, 36

RETURNED BY THE SKY11- By the sky that returns
86-The Knocker, 11

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SUN AND THE MOON5- It is He who made the sun to be a radiant and the moon to be a light ...
10-Jonah, 5

Believe it or not, Riverfox, I get what you are saying. What you have outlined here should be somewhat obvious to even the thickest dullard. What I am asking is, is there a certified list of instructions for people who want to take on the so-called challenge?

 

[England my lionheart]

Taking this the challenge with a book you haven't even red ?
How is "The True Furqan" is a Qur'an like ? This book even goes as far as attacking Allah (swt),this incorporating the Christian belief of the three spirits. And this so called true Furqan or Qur'an opposes many Islamic beliefs. in one of its ayats it describes having more than one wife as fornification, divorce being non-permissable.It states that Jihad is haram.
Produce A like of the Qur'an ,if you think the 7th centurey people could write it, produce a similar book written 1400 years ago, if you are truthful.
A book that talkes about similar to these:
Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an

The reason i posted about "the true Furqan" is it cannot be judged as nobody knows the criteria or judge.

THE UNIVERSE IN GASEOUS STATE Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”
41-Elucidated, 11

Forgive me if i am being picky but how can you tell something that does'nt exist to come into existence willingly or unwillingly and then something that does'nt exist answers "we come willingly

PERFECT ORBITS7- By the Sky with its ingeniously devised paths (orbits).
51-The Dispersing, 7

Its amazing how the planets manage to miss each other

SEX IN PLANTS53- And has sent down water from the sky. With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants.
20-Ta-He, 53

3- ...And fruit of every kind He made in pairs two and two.
13-The Thunder, 3
two by two,where have i heard that before

CREATION IN PAIRS36- Glory be to the One, who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as themselves, and other things they do not know.

36-Ya-Seen, 36

RETURNED BY THE SKY11- By the sky that returns
86-The Knocker, 11

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SUN AND THE MOON5- It is He who made the sun to be a radiant and the moon to be a light ...
10-Jonah, 5

Oh dash it all,i thought the Moon was just reflecting the Sun