The Challenge in the Qur'an

[Riverwolf]

Lol. Some research will prove it to you. In fact, I found a nice series of posts that assembles a couple of mentions:

Prophet Muhammad in Hindus' Scripture
Prophet Muhammad in Buddhists' Scripture
Prophet Muhammad in Parsis' Scripture
Prophet Muhammad in Christians' Scripture

Discussing 'Prophet Muhammed in different religion's scripture' in the God is one."" group - Shelfari

If you would like, I could look for other explanations of this point.

Peace be upon you.

That's better.

I have heard the belief that Mohammad is Kalki of Hindu prophecy.

 

[England my lionheart]

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.’ [John 16:2-15]

Muhammad (PBUH) is mentioned by name in Hebrew. It is not an assumption, it is fact. Muhammad (PBUH) is mentioned in the original scriptures and preserved in the Hebrew language. This is the Old Testament. My friend, if you really do find it "interesting" ... I suggest you have a look at these if you wish YouTube - Muhammed in the bible - Ahmed Deedat 1 of 11 . In this particular video, the action starts at 4:47. That fact I mentioned is undeniable .
Baloney

In Chapter 61 (The Ranks) of the Holy Qur'an, Allah says:
And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"

"Why are not (signs) sent to him, like those which were sent to Moses?"
Surah 28.48 perhaps God was busy but Muhammed unlike Moses did'nt perform any signs and wonders and even said something along the lines of "for what you are impatient i cannot show you".
The other big difference is the Prophet fortold in Deutronomy has God speaking directly to him whereas Muhammed only liased through Gabriel.

If you are, for example a Christian, then not following what is said in the Bible would not make you so right? If Jesus (PBUH) told his people to listen to the Apostle that would come in the future -- as similar to other religious scriptures -- then that would be the message of Islam. No religious scripture says that there will be another prophet after the mentioned. And the Allah says in the Qur'an that Muhammad (PBUH) is the Seal of the prophets; therefore being the last one.

Assumptions and straws

You see, all religious scriptures point towards the message of Muhammad (PBUH) - and that message is Islam.

In your dreams,this ranks alongside the other chestnuts "the miracle of the Quran" or "modern science in the Quran" Mountains are pegs to stop the Earth wobbling etc
it proves nothing.

Peace be upon you.

______________________________​

And peace be upon you.

​

 

[Ghostaka]

Not a wild guess at all, especially since Deuteronomy isn't quite as old as that. There have been prophets before Deuteronomy was written, so there was no reason to think that there wouldn't be others in the future.

Old or not, my statement still stands. There are only four scriptures mentioned by name in the Qur'an. These other scriptures may or may not have been from Allah we cannot be sure. Human modification to those scriptures has caused the slight but significant differences/contradictions. Only in the Qur'an, has Allah declared that His word will protected and remained unchanged. In Chapter 15 (Rock City) of the Holy Qur'an, Allah says:

Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’ān and indeed, We will be its guardian.

Despite the tampering, there still remains the mention of Muhammad (PBUH) in other religious scriptures. If such a wide range of scriptures point toward Muhammad (PBUH) what does that tell you? Now that I think of it, it's as if the only thing that remained from other scriptures before the Qur'an, was the mention of Muhammad (PBUH) and the necessity to worship Allah Alone.

Peace be upon you.

______________________________

(Moses) said: "O my Lord! expand me my breast;
Ease my task for me;
And remove the impediment from my speech',
So they may understand what I say":
{The Holy Qur'an 20: 25-28}
​

 

[Ghostaka]

Baloney

"Why are not (signs) sent to him, like those which were sent to Moses?"
Surah 28.48 perhaps God was busy but Muhammed unlike Moses did'nt perform any signs and wonders and even said something along the lines of "for what you are impatient i cannot show you".

None of the prophets performed miracles without the help of Allah. Lol at your comment for Allah says in Chapter 2 (The Cow) of the Holy Qur'an:

Those messengers – some of them We caused to exceed others. Among them were those to whom Allāh spoke, and He raised some of them in degree. And We gave Jesus, the Son of Mary, clear proofs, and We supported him with the Pure Spirit. If Allāh had willed, those [generations] succeeding them would not have fought each other after the clear proofs had come to them. But they differed, and some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. And if Allāh had willed, they would not have fought each other, but Allāh does what He intends. {Verse 253}

p.s. No miracles? Really? What about the revelation of the Qur'an itself or:
(1) Splitting of the Moon:
(2) Food Multiplication:
(3) Water Multiplication:
(4) Crying of the stem of the Date-palm Tree:
(5) The Prophet's Night Journey to Jerusalem and Ascent to the Heavens:

Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar << Refer to site.. if still interested .

The other big difference is the Prophet fortold in Deutronomy has God speaking directly to him whereas Muhammed only liased through Gabriel.

Now your comment is what should be called assumptions and straws.
And We have certainly revealed to you verses [which are] clear proofs, and no one would deny them except the defiantly disobedient. {The Holy Qur'an 2:99} .

Refer to my quote of 2:253 above.

In your dreams,this ranks alongside the other chestnuts "the miracle of the Quran" or "modern science in the Quran" Mountains are pegs to stop the Earth wobbling etc
it proves nothing.

And your comment proves what exactly?

Peace be upon you ... cause you need it lol

______________________________

(Moses) said: "O my Lord! expand me my breast;
Ease my task for me;
And remove the impediment from my speech',
So they may understand what I say":
{The Holy Qur'an 20: 25-28}
​

 

[YmirGF]

People, is it asking too much to stay on topic?

The topic, lest anyone has forgotten, is regarding the challenge in the Qur'an.
If you wish to discuss unrelated topics kindly start new threads to cover them.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ghostaka]

People, is it asking too much to stay on topic?

The topic, lest anyone has forgotten, is regarding the challenge in the Qur'an.
If you wish to discuss unrelated topics kindly start new threads to cover them.

Thanks in advance.

Whoa bud, I think my comments so far have been related. Why!? Because acknowledging that Muhammad (PBUH) was prophesied long before he was born is a sign that his arrival and what had been revealed to Him was from Allah; ergo Authentic .

All in due time... you are welcome in advance..

Peace be upon you.

______________________________

(Moses) said: "O my Lord! expand me my breast;
Ease my task for me;
And remove the impediment from my speech',
So they may understand what I say":
{The Holy Qur'an 20: 25-28}
​

 

[England my lionheart]

sorry for getting sidetracked.

​

 

[YmirGF]

Whoa bud, I think my comments so far have been related. Why!? Because acknowledging that Muhammad (PBUH) was prophesied long before he was born is a sign that his arrival and what had been revealed to Him was from Allah; ergo Authentic .

You are joking, I will assume.

Look, I know where you are going with this line of thought and I will tell you it is completely unnecessary. Muslim assertions of the foretelling of Muhammad, in the scriptures of others, does not have any bearing on the so-called "challenge" listed in the Qur'an. If you can explain in one or two paragraphs, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, how this has any bearing then do so, otherwise, please drop it or start your own thread.

 

[.lava]

People, is it asking too much to stay on topic?

hi

what's the purpose of this thread? do you have a claim about those verses you sent in OP?



.

 

[England my lionheart]

I found this criteria from the number 19 Muslims The Islamic Calendars and Others- Understadning, calculating Ramadan, Hajj and other Islamic events-Hilal-Crescent-new-Calendar-dates-Prophet Muhammed, Mohammed-Islam (Submission)-Hadith and Sunna in Islam (Submission)- Ahadith-Sunnah-Quran, Qur'an, see what you think

 

[Riverwolf]

Old or not, my statement still stands. There are only four scriptures mentioned by name in the Qur'an. These other scriptures may or may not have been from Allah we cannot be sure. Human modification to those scriptures has caused the slight but significant differences/contradictions. Only in the Qur'an, has Allah declared that His word will protected and remained unchanged. In Chapter 15 (Rock City) of the Holy Qur'an, Allah says:

Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’&#257;n and indeed, We will be its guardian.

Despite the tampering, there still remains the mention of Muhammad (PBUH) in other religious scriptures. If such a wide range of scriptures point toward Muhammad (PBUH) what does that tell you?

I remain agnostic on this case until I've done more research. It may be that the prophecies were speaking of someone else. And I'm afraid I do not yet believe the entire Qur'an to be the word of God just because it says so.

Now that I think of it, it's as if the only thing that remained from other scriptures before the Qur'an, was the mention of Muhammad (PBUH) and the necessity to worship Allah Alone.

Peace be upon you.

Have you read them yourself? There are MANY other similarities between them.

 

[kai]

People, is it asking too much to stay on topic?

The topic, lest anyone has forgotten, is regarding the challenge in the Qur'an.
If you wish to discuss unrelated topics kindly start new threads to cover them.

Thanks in advance.

yes its diverting attention away from the OP , the criteria of the challenge, and who judges it is what we are all still waiting for. and to be honest i would like to look into this Mohamed mentioned in other scripture topic so it would be good for another thread.

 

[kai]

Old or not, my statement still stands. There are only four scriptures mentioned by name in the Qur'an. These other scriptures may or may not have been from Allah we cannot be sure. Human modification to those scriptures has caused the slight but significant differences/contradictions. Only in the Qur'an, has Allah declared that His word will protected and remained unchanged. In Chapter 15 (Rock City) of the Holy Qur'an, Allah says:

Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’&#257;n and indeed, We will be its guardian.

Despite the tampering, there still remains the mention of Muhammad (PBUH) in other religious scriptures. If such a wide range of scriptures point toward Muhammad (PBUH) what does that tell you? Now that I think of it, it's as if the only thing that remained from other scriptures before the Qur'an, was the mention of Muhammad (PBUH) and the necessity to worship Allah Alone.

Peace be upon you.

______________________________

(Moses) said: "O my Lord! expand me my breast;
Ease my task for me;
And remove the impediment from my speech',
So they may understand what I say":
{The Holy Qur'an 20: 25-28}
​

shall we continue this discussion here?


http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ntioned-name-other-scripture.html#post1613028

 

[riverfox]

Oh dash it all,i thought the Moon was just reflecting the Sun

Yes it is,read this
Quran Miracles | DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SUN AND THE MOON

The sun’s light is expressed by the Arabic word “ziya” (radiant) and the moon’s light is expressed by the word “noor” (light). The word “ziya” meaning radiation has the connotation of light and heat, while “noor” does not have such a connotation. Other attributes of the sun in the Quran are similes such as “seraj” (torch) or “wahhaj” (lamp). Both “seraj” and “wahhaj” emit heat and light through the fire burning within them. The fact that such attributes are not used for the light of the moon shows how refined the
style of the Quran is.

 

[kai]

Yes it is,read this
Quran Miracles | DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SUN AND THE MOON

so they noticed that the sun and moon were different that's hardly a miracle is it .

my 5 year old knows that, ask her to draw the sun and the moon and ones yellow the other isnt, and i am pretty sure she draws that without divine intervention.

For goodness sake we have astronomical aligned stone circles here thousands of years old. do you think they didn't know the light from the sun was different to the light from the moon.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes it is,read this
Quran Miracles | DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SUN AND THE MOON

My goodness (sits down) thats amazing:sarcastic

 

[riverfox]

Yeah and they knew that the moon is not the source of its light, right.
[Al-Qur'an 22:51]
"But those who strive against Our Signs, to frustrate them,- they will be Companions of the Fire."

You also neglected even responding to most of these signs.produce a Sura like there unto..
No one did until now.,as 2:24 says "and of a surety ye cannot"
Those who are neglecting these signs lose the challenge.
[Al-Qur'an 45:7-8]
Woe to each sinful dealer in Falsehoods.He hears the Signs of Allah rehearsed to him, yet is obstinate and lofty, as if he had not heard them: then announce to him a Penalty Grievous!.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yeah and they knew that the moon is not the source of its light, right.
[Al-Qur'an 22:51]
"But those who strive against Our Signs, to frustrate them,- they will be Companions of the Fire."

You also neglected even responding to most of these signs.produce a Sura like there unto..
No one did until now.,as 2:24 says "and of a surety ye cannot"
Those who are neglecting these signs lose the challenge.
[Al-Qur'an 45:7-8]
Woe to each sinful dealer in Falsehoods.He hears the Signs of Allah rehearsed to him, yet is obstinate and lofty, as if he had not heard them: then announce to him a Penalty Grievous!.

The Muslims of the number 19 miracle have provided criteria and judge,by who's authority i don't know,whats your criteria and who will judge it,an Arab man posted "a Sura like it" on AOL and it had to be removed because thousands of Muslims were up in arms about it,so is it the rabble who will decide and would they be impartial :no:

 

[riverfox]

Do you still think that so called "the true furkan" is a sura like it ?

 

[England my lionheart]

Do you still think that so called "the true furkan" is a sura like it ?

I never said it was,i used it as an example,who and how was it judged,where did they get the criteria (if indeed there is any) but as the AOL fiasco shows Muslims do not take even someone calling their Teddybear Muhammed very well.
I cannot judge the True Furqan because i and it seems the rest of humanity do not know the criteria which really isn't a problem for me as i don't believe it is a challenge outside the age of Muhammed.