The Coronation of Christian King Charles III

[muhammad_isa]

The fact that there are many different “Gods” supports this..

There are not many different gods .. this is merely a claim.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are not many different gods .. this is merely a claim.

Right: don't you believe that many people believe in false gods, despite their beliefs being sincere?

 

[muhammad_isa]

The only stumbling block - and admittedly, it's a big one, since ego comes into play - is letting go of the idea that the god you believe in is special..

Well, I believe in "the God", that created and maintains the universe .. is that what you mean by special?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, I believe in "the God", that created and maintains the universe .. is that what you mean by special?

Many other gods that you dismiss as false are also purported to have created and maintained the universe, so no: that does not make your god special. Creator-gods are a dime a dozen.

What would make your god special is being exempt from the trend you see and acknowledge in every single other god humanity has ever believed in.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Many other gods that you dismiss as false are also purported to have created and maintained the universe..

Really?
I doubt it .. care to name some?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Really?
I doubt it .. care to name some?

Sure. Here are some examples:

Examples include:

• Sub-Saharan African contexts:
  • Mbombo of Bakuba mythology, who vomited out the world upon feeling a stomachache
  • Unkulunkulu in Zulu mythology
• American contexts:
  • Nanabozho (Great Rabbit), Ojibwe deity, a shape-shifter and a cocreator of the world[46][47]
  • Cōātlīcue in Aztec mythology
  • Chiminigagua (and/or Bague) in Muisca mythology
  • Viracocha in Inca mythology
  • A trickster deity in the form of a Raven in Inuit mythology
• Near Eastern contexts:
  • Egyptian mythology
    • Atum in Ennead, whose semen becomes the primal component of the universe
    • Ptah creating the universe by the Word
    • Neith, who wove all of the universe and existence into being on her loom.
  • ’Ēl in Canaanite religion
  • Marduk killing Tiamat in the Babylonian Enûma Eliš
• Asian contexts:
  • Atingkok Maru Sidaba in Manipuri mythology, the creator of the universe
  • Esege Malan in Mongolian mythology, king of the skies
  • Kamuy in Ainu mythology, who built the world on the back of a trout
  • Izanagi and Izanami-no-Mikoto in Japanese mythology, who churned the ocean with a spear, creating the islands of Japan
  • Pangu in Chinese mythology, he is the one who separated heaven and earth and became geographic features such as mountains and rivers
  • In Hinduism, Lord Brahma is the creator of the universe
  • Thần Trụ Trời the god who created the world in Vietnamese mythology
• European contexts:
  • The sons of Borr slaying the primeval giant Ymir in Norse mythology
  • Rod in Slavic mythology
  • Ipmil or Radien-Áhči (Radien Father) in Sámi mythology
• Oceanic contexts:
  • Makemake, creator of humanity, the god of fertility and the chief god of the "Tangata manu" or "bird-man" cult of Rapa Nui mythology.
  • Ranginui, the Sky Father, and Papatūānuku, the Earth Mother in Māori mythology

Creator deity - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Zwing]

What objective evidence would you expect, if God exists?

How about a God revealing itself in some sensorily perceptible way? The thing is, nobody has ever perceived God in any sensory manner, but rather only mentally/intellectually. Why would a God which wanted to be recognized for what he is remain hidden from mankind?

 

[Zwing]

There are not many different gods .. this is merely a claim.

Well, if you as a Muslim conceive of God as depicted in the Qur’an, and a Vaishnavin Hindu conceived of Vishnu as his God, then you two conceive of different gods, both claiming that the other’s god is not actual.

 

[Zwing]

…I believe in "the God", that created and maintains the universe…

Yes, but you have not answered @9-10ths_Penguin ’s question, instead stating a proposition; what evidence do you have in support for this proposition? I believe in the natural generation of the universe, and cite as evidence the multivarious findings of physics and the other sciences. Why do you believe in this supernaturalist view, which was once my own?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Sure. Here are some examples:..

..and how do you know that they are all false?
Have you examined each one, and looked for evidence?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe in the natural generation of the universe..

..and so do I .. it's just that you hide behind the word "natural",
as if that explains everything.

 

[Zwing]

Hav eyou examined each one, and looked for evidence?

I pose that question back to you. Refer to post #329 above.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well, if you as a Muslim conceive of God as depicted in the Qur’an, and a Vaishnavin Hindu conceived of Vishnu as his God, then you two conceive of different gods, both claiming that the other’s god is not actual.

When was the "Hindu god" discovered?
Could it be that Hinduisim today, is a mish-mash of many beliefs, that has evolved over time?

It is entirely plausible, that many religious traditions have evolved into something unrecognisable from their roots.

 

[Zwing]

..and so do I ..

If you conceive of a God which created the universe by fiat, then no, you do not. This is an example of supernatural creation, and there is no evidence for that.

 

[Zwing]

When was the "Hindu god" discovered?

When was Allah or YHVH discovered? (Actually, Allah is simply a restatement of YHVH, the “Omni-god” of the Abrahamic faiths, but I digress…)

 

[muhammad_isa]

When was Allah or YHVH discovered? (Actually, Allah is simply a restatement of YHVH, but I digress…)

..relatively recently..

 

[muhammad_isa]

If you conceive of a God which created the universe by fiat, then no, you do not..

..as I say, you just say "natural", as if that is an explanation.

 

[Zwing]

..relatively recently..

I missed the news. Where was he found? Got a picture?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

..and how do you know that they are all false?
Have you examined each one, and looked for evidence?

Missing the point.

Which ones do you think are true, or even might be true?

 

[Zwing]

..as I say, you just say "natural", as if that is an explanation.

Since we have been surrounded by nature and its processes all of our lives, we should think that occurrences happen naturally…in a natural manner and for natural reasons. Our assumption as humans should be that all things happen naturally, unless we have convincing evidence to the contrary. That is the point; there is no need to seek supernatural reasons for anything, unless there is some manifestation which suggests that one do so. In the case of “God” as an agent of creation, there seems not to be; stories written in ancient texts do not represent convincing evidence.